Duke Tobin on why the Bengals didn't trade veteran players

[BengalsRocker]

(01-28-2020, 12:04 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: They didn't let Whit walk. They made him an offer and he got a better one from another team. Whit could have taken the Bengals offer but he did what was in his best financial interest. The Bengals could have matched the offer but they didn't feel he was worth that given his age. 

They took a gamble as they felt they had players ready to step up when he walked. Similar to how the let Levi and used Whit in his place. The difference was the players behind Whit were not ready to replace him and he was ready to replace the injured Levi Jones. The gamble failed and cost ML and his staff their jobs, well most of the staff. 

Overall I'm not surprised they let him walk. As for Tobin comment, I get it and even when everyone here was stating trade for draft capital I was against it than. If we did trade as everyone wanted, there would be less pieces in play to help build around Burrow. Instead the organization would have to hope that whoever they draft pans out vs. players that have been producing, especially since the players many wanted to trade away are still under contract going into 2020. 

Exactly.

The part they messed up was the talent, if not replace Whit, but to grow into it at least.  The same with Zeitler.

They massively whiffed on all of those drafted and like you said those directly responsible are no longer with the team.

I have to believe that Alexander left a massive mess here by his lack of judgment.

If there's one thing positive that I can say about the front office is I don't blame them for not overpaying Zeitler,  and Whitworth is an anomaly if you say otherwise... you're a damn liar.

After the whole debacle though...  I've come to the conclusion that if a lineman going forward is worth a damn they should overpay and squeeze every last drop of talent out of them.

They're not very good at drafting lately and they'll have to severely overpay in external Free Agency.

That is even if the FA wants to come here.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2020, 03:33 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Exactly.

The part they messed up was the talent, if not replace Whit, but to grow into it at least.  The same with Zeitler.

They massively whiffed on all of those drafted and like you said those directly responsible are no longer with the team.

I have to believe that Alexander left a massive mess here by his lack of judgment.

If there's one thing positive that I can say about the front office is I don't blame them for not overpaying Zeitler,  and Whitworth is an anomaly if you say otherwise... you're a damn liar.

After the whole debacle though...  I've come to the conclusion that if a lineman going forward is worth a damn they should overpay and squeeze every last drop of talent out of them.

They're not very good at drafting lately and they'll have to severely overpay in external Free Agency.

That is even if the FA wants to come here.

Zeitler was severely overpaid by the Stains, said it then. I still wanted Whit back for like a 2 to 3 year deal. But it is true Whit is an 
anomaly, rare for an OT to play this long and this well. Still thought we should of paid him the same the Rams did back then and 
still think so now. The FO just screwed the pooch drafting Og and got unlucky with Fisher's health problem.

The FO will have to pay for an O-lineman in FA if they want to ensure Burrow playing decent in his rookie year no question and 
even then it would be up in the air with how said Lineman plays.

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 03:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't think so, I think he became a game time decision around the last couple games or so.

He was injured after the bye and during the trade deadline so he couldn't work out for other teams even if we wanted to trade him.

He wasn't put on IR so it must be that someone on the team thought he was close to returning.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-27-2020, 10:43 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I may not be as smart as the average bear but I am a Bengals fan. So what's your excuse Einstein?

Ummmmmmmmmmm, what're you talking about?

[fredtoast]

(01-28-2020, 04:03 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: He wasn't put on IR so it must be that someone on the team thought he was close to returning.

He was placed on IR before the last game of the season.

No doubt the Bengals were hopeful that he would return, but he just was not able to.

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was placed on IR before the last game of the season.

No doubt the Bengals were hopeful that he would return, but he just was not able to.

Like I said , someone thought he was going to return or they would have put him on IR before the last game . 

[Hammerstripes]

(01-27-2020, 09:15 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Say we traded AJ for a 1st from SF. 

SF has been mocked to drafting AJ Terrell,  Grant Delpit, Tee Higgins etc. Guys who could come in and make a difference this year.

Would love them to get as many top 100 selections as they could this year since there are so many quality players at positions they need to get better at. 

Would have traded AJ no problem at the deadline if it were possible and maybe Dunlap or geno, then move dalton in the offseason.

Absolutlely no way those guys would help the team more than AJ.  Especially with a new QB coming in.  After listening to Lap talk about how good AJ looked during warmups, there's no question in my mind that he was ready to play, but the team wasn't going to waste him and put him at risk.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-28-2020, 03:33 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Exactly.

The part they messed up was the talent, if not replace Whit, but to grow into it at least.  The same with Zeitler.

They massively whiffed on all of those drafted and like you said those directly responsible are no longer with the team.

I have to believe that Alexander left a massive mess here by his lack of judgment.

If there's one thing positive that I can say about the front office is I don't blame them for not overpaying Zeitler,  and Whitworth is an anomaly if you say otherwise... you're a damn liar.

After the whole debacle though...  I've come to the conclusion that if a lineman going forward is worth a damn they should overpay and squeeze every last drop of talent out of them.

They're not very good at drafting lately and they'll have to severely overpay in external Free Agency.

That is even if the FA wants to come here.

No. As much as I wanted Alexander gone, he isn’t responsible for not re-signing Whitworth or Zeitler. The people directly responsible for that mess aren’t gone. They still haven’t fixed the offensive line.

[fredtoast]

(01-28-2020, 04:33 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Like I said , someone thought he was going to return or they would have put him on IR before the last game . 

So someone was wrong.

What is your point?

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 05:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So someone was wrong.

What is your point?

My point is that he looked like he was able to play as cited by Lap but chose not to so he wouldn't go into the FA period being injured. DUH.... Is this not what we were discussing?

[fredtoast]

(01-28-2020, 05:44 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: My point is that he looked like able to play as cited by Lap but chose not to so he would go into the FA period being injured. DUH....

How did green get to decide if he played or not?

The fact that he looked good in drills is meaningless.  If Green was intentionally sandbagging then he would not have looked good in drills.  In fact he would not have been doing the drills at all because  he would have been on IR.

Your theory makes no sense.  If Green decides not to play to avoid injury then he shuts it down and goes on IR.

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 06:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your theory makes no sense.  If Green decides not to play to avoid injury then he shuts it down and goes on IR.

I believe that was just what he wanted but the team knew he was able to play so they kept him active to punish him. Hearing AJ still can't play week in and week out did a lot to hurt AJ's value. I truly believe this was a power play by both sides because AJ was butt hurt that he didn't get a new contract last offseason. BTW you can't force any player who says he is hurt to play( see Cordy Glenn).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-28-2020, 06:23 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I believe that was just what he wanted but the team knew he was able to play so they kept him active to punish him. Hearing AJ still can't play week in and week out did a lot to hurt AJ's value. I truly believe this was a power play by both sides because AJ was butt hurt that he didn't get a new contract last offseason. BTW you can't force any player who says he is hurt to play( see Cordy Glenn).

Your ability to determine a player isn’t injured by not examining him is impressive.

[fredtoast]

(01-28-2020, 06:23 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I believe that was just what he wanted but the team knew he was able to play so they kept him active to punish him.

This is getting absurd.

How the hell is being on the active roster instead of on IR any kind of punishment for the player?  The team is the one that suffers from having to work with a short roster.  It is no punishment at all to the player.

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 06:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting absurd.

How the hell is being on the active roster instead of on IR any kind of punishment for the player?  The team is the one that suffers from having to work with a short roster.  It is no punishment at all to the player.

AJ thinking he was a top receiver and not being re-signed and then magically turning a sprained ankle into a free year off. You think it couldn't happen while I think it could. Pros have big egos.

[Catmandude123]

(01-28-2020, 06:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Your ability to determine a player isn’t injured by not examining him is impressive.

Oh I can see a bruised ego a mile away. AJ and AB have the same condition but they are in different stages of the disease. Don't go to the pool at AJ's high rise next summer. I failed to mention I am a telepathic psychiatrist. Don't worry I won't expose anyone's personal info, client- patient relationship and all.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-28-2020, 09:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Oh I can see a bruised ego a mile away. AJ and AB have the same condition but they are in different stages of the disease. Don't go to the pool at AJ's high rise next summer. I failed to mention I am a telepathic psychiatrist. Don't worry I won't expose anyone's personal info, client- patient relationship and all.

Having trouble deciding if you're just bad at being "funny", or just downright trolling to get people riled up..  

[*michaelsean*]

(01-28-2020, 09:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Oh I can see a bruised ego a mile away. AJ and AB have the same condition but they are in different stages of the disease. Don't go to the pool at AJ's high rise next summer. I failed to mention I am a telepathic psychiatrist. Don't worry I won't expose anyone's personal info, client- patient relationship and all.

AJ and AB aren’t even the same species.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-28-2020, 04:40 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Absolutlely no way those guys would help the team more than AJ.  Especially with a new QB coming in.  After listening to Lap talk about how good AJ looked during warmups, there's no question in my mind that he was ready to play, but the team wasn't going to waste him and put him at risk.

This is what I have come to after everything we have heard. Feel the same, and AJ should be appreciative of it.

(01-28-2020, 05:00 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No. As much as I wanted Alexander gone, he isn’t responsible for not re-signing Whitworth or Zeitler. The people directly responsible for that mess aren’t gone. They still haven’t fixed the offensive line.

At least Turner got something out of Hopkins last season which gives me a lot more hope.

True, the FO is responsible for not re-signing Whit but Zeit was a no go as he was severely overpaid by the Stains.

(01-28-2020, 09:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: AJ and AB aren’t even the same species.

True that, couldn't have 2 more opposite Recievers in terms of brains.

That is a major insult to AJ Green.

Antonio Brown is the biggest nutcase I have ever seen at WR maybe.


AJ is all class and always has been, don't insult this man damn it!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-28-2020, 09:18 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Oh I can see a bruised ego a mile away. AJ and AB have the same condition but they are in different stages of the disease. Don't go to the pool at AJ's high rise next summer. I failed to mention I am a telepathic psychiatrist. Don't worry I won't expose anyone's personal info, client- patient relationship and all.

This says more about your judgement than Green’s character, unfortunately.

“Client-patient” relationship? The patient is the client. lol I think you mean the doctor-patient relationship. Next time use your powers of telepathy to read your mind to know what you mean.