Joe Mixon

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-04-2020, 12:23 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The Bengals lost seven games by a touchdown or less in 2019 with the money we should have under the cap we should be have the cash to sign multiple FAs which with the draft picks should make us competitive in 2020.

We both know the Bengals do not operate that way. They will try to resign as many of there players as they can before bringing in other players. Even with the money they have with the cash they could potentially free up, they still have to account for pick signings. Do not expect a super splashy offseason even with 70mil in cap space.

[Sled21]

I truly believe a whole lot of you guys are going to be eating crow about this coaching staff......

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2020, 09:25 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Nothing wrong with having a top RB. We should offer him and he should accept a fair extension this year.

3 year 40 mil extension. So we have him the next 4 years.

You want to sign Mixon to an extension that would be the third highest yearly average RB contract in the league? That sounds like a terrible idea, Nati.

(02-04-2020, 10:36 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So do you think he would have been able to overcome the loss for the season of Williams, Glenn, AJ, Boling and the other injuries ? Would you be happier if we would have won six games instead of two and were picking four or five spots later in the draft? I choose to believe that maybe the football gods are smiling on us and thing will be turning around. Zac will turn things around with the new talent this year.                                       I also hope they spend in free agency instead of depending solely on their ability(or lack of) to draft.

I never said he would have overcome a losing season. The FO still put together an offseason signing group of Uzomah/Hart/Webb/Miller/Brown/Bernard all on 3 year deals. The Bengals were never going to compete for the playoffs with that roster. I had them predicted to be 6-10 or 7-9, if I remember correctly.

I am just saying that I would feel a hell of a lot better if the person in charge of that losing season wasn't an incompetent playcaller who is now getting the opportunity to ruin a 1st overall pick QB.

[Catmandude123]

(02-04-2020, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If going 2-14 was a good thing then we should thank ZT for getting us into last place to draft Burrow and replace him.  He's done his job and we should move on.

I have faith in Burrow but he's already going to be dragging MBs dead weight and saddling him with what appears to be a loser coaching staff is flat out cruel.  I'm being a bit melodramatic though, but if i wanted to thank heavens for 2-14 seasons I'd be a Browns fan. 

Sorry but I tend to look at the glass half full when others want to break it against the wall. Seven of the losses were by TD or less. AJ, Ross, and Williams return plus Burrow and the rest of the draft will improve the team immensely. 

[Catmandude123]

(02-04-2020, 06:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You want to sign Mixon to an extension that would be the third highest yearly average RB contract in the league? That sounds like a terrible idea, Nati.


I never said he would have overcome a losing season. The FO still put together an offseason signing group of Uzomah/Hart/Webb/Miller/Brown/Bernard all on 3 year deals. The Bengals were never going to compete for the playoffs with that roster. I had them predicted to be 6-10 or 7-9, if I remember correctly.

I am just saying that I would feel a hell of a lot better if the person in charge of that losing season wasn't an incompetent playcaller who is now getting the opportunity to ruin a 1st overall pick QB.

I take it you aren't a member of the Zac Taylor fan club? I hope he wins you over this year but I doubt it.

[*Nately120*]

(02-04-2020, 06:04 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Sorry but I tend to look at the glass half full when others want to break it against the wall. Seven of the losses were by TD or less. AJ, Ross, and Williams return plus Burrow and the rest of the draft will improve the team immensely. 

Yeah I hear ya but the 0-16 Browns lost a lot of close games and in 2010 we lost a lot of close games and the SB was won by the Packers who won a lot of close games.  Close games are nice, but using pretty losses as a means to make decisions sounds like dangerous thinking.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-04-2020, 07:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah I hear ya but the 0-16 Browns lost a lot of close games and in 2010 we lost a lot of close games and the SB was won by the Packers who won a lot of close games.  Close games are nice, but using pretty losses as a means to make decisions sounds like dangerous thinking.

Agreed that the "7 losses by 1 score or less" narrative is weak.


If you look at the entire NFL and turn every single 1 score loss into a win, I believe there would only be 2 losing teams left in the NFL for 2019. The Redskins who would be 6-10, and the Dolphins who would be 7-9.

If you turned all 1 score losses into wins, the 3-12-1 Lions would turn into the 12-4 Lions. It's a meaningless thing to do.

[Catmandude123]

(02-04-2020, 07:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote:  the SB was won by the Packers who won a lot of close games.  

Yeah but they beat the Steelers. We could never do that!

[BengalsRocker]

(02-03-2020, 11:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Joe Mixon is a FA in 2021. After or before this year, the Bengals are going to have to decide on whether to throw a bunch of money (that's most likely what it will take) at him and extend him.

IMO one of the bigger mistakes the Bengals have made recently is signing Gio to an extension and I think resigning Mixon could be a mistake as well.

I love Joe, but the Bengals needs to be smart here. The NFL has changed. Gone are the days where teams are throwing a bunch of money at the RB position. The Chiefs and 49ers were just in the Super Bowl with cheap veteran RBs and young RBs on rookie deals. The Patriots operate the same way.

If the money makes sense, then sure - extend him. If im the Bengals, though - I'm not breaking the bank on Joe Mixon. I'm investing the money saved on him in the offensive and defensive lines.

Just by them signing Gio for too much compared to his usage and failure at drafting decent depth in the draft I think they should re-sign Mixon.

Joe isn't quite a Burfict type player but they did take a chance on him because of his past actions.

I don't trust them to be able to pick RB talent anymore.

I get what you're saying about scheme and great blocking that open holes enough for pedestrian running backs, but I'm not holding my breath they can get it done.

So far they have whiffed on linemen.

It's laughable to think they'll ever spend on D or O-linemen in free agency.

I'd rather them spend money on Joe than waste it on Gio, Hart, Jerry, DreK, and the list goes on.

The other thing you're forgetting is this team NEEDS players with passion to win and the fire to motivate others.

I think Mixon is more valuable for this particular team than what you're giving him credit here.

The Bengals sadly have to do things differently, even if what you say is true about the rest of the league.

Pay to keep the talent unless they're injury prone and on the back-side of their career.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2020, 07:31 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Just by them signing Gio for too much compared to his usage and failure at drafting decent depth in the draft I think they should re-sign Mixon.

Joe isn't quite a Burfict type player but they did take a chance on him because of his past actions.

I don't trust them to be able to pick RB talent anymore.

I get what you're saying about scheme and great blocking that open holes enough for pedestrian running backs, but I'm not holding my breath they can get it done.

So far they have whiffed on linemen.

It's laughable to think they'll ever spend on D or O-linemen in free agency.

I'd rather them spend money on Joe than waste it on Gio, Hart, Jerry, DreK, and the list goes on.

The other thing you're forgetting is this team NEEDS players with passion to win and the fire to motivate others.

I think Mixon is more valuable for this particular team than what you're giving him credit here.

The Bengals sadly have to do things differently, even if what you say is true about the rest of the league.

Pay to keep the talent unless they're injury prone and on the back-side of their career.

Agreed, they actually hit on a player, keep said player.

[*Nately120*]

(02-04-2020, 07:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Yeah but they beat the Steelers. We could never do that!

But we usually come pretty close...well Marvin did 

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-04-2020, 06:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You want to sign Mixon to an extension that would be the third highest yearly average RB contract in the league? That sounds like a terrible idea, Nati.

Starting QB will be on a rookie contract. And nothing helps a young QB like having an elite playmaking RB who he can hand the ball to.

Not ideal to pay top money to a RB. But that is where we are. He is the best player we have on offense right now. I would rather have one less question mark on offense as we attempt to build around a rookie QB. Having an elite RB is a damn good building block.

[Catmandude123]

(02-04-2020, 11:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: But we usually come pretty close...well Marvin did 

Marvin was 8-25 vs them. Pretty pathtic.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-05-2020, 12:49 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Starting QB will be on a rookie contract. And nothing helps a young QB like having an elite playmaking RB who he can hand the ball to.

Not ideal to pay top money to a RB. But that is where we are. He is the best player we have on offense right now. I would rather have one less question mark on offense as we attempt to build around a rookie QB. Having an elite RB is a damn good building block.

A rookie contract that will still pay him ~$9m/yr.

I'm sorry, but no matter how often you repeat it, Joe Mixon is not an elite RB. If Joe Mixon is elite, then what does that make Nick Chubb, Ezekiel Elliott, Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry, etc? Mixon is clearly at least a full level below some RBs, so if Mixon is elite, what does that make them? Super Elite? Double Elite? Double Secret Elite?

He's a decent player, but teams regularly find players his caliber in later rounds or as undrafted players. Chris Carson was a 7th rounder, Marlon Mack was a 4th rounder, Aaron Jones was a 5th rounder, Phillip Lindsay was undrafted, and those guys are all more Mixon's level than the elite RBs in the league.

Paying Mixon $13.3m/yr is a terrible idea. There's literally only 11 OL making $13.3m+/yr, which means you could spend that money on a good FA OL who will not only provide better run blocking, but will also help protect your hopefully franchise QB from getting murdered.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-03-2020, 01:25 PM)grampahol Wrote: Running backs are not generally seen as having long life spans in the league. That's not to mean they all just keel over and die, but the average career length of running backs is 2 1/2 years, often much shorter. Heck, if a team can get one good year out of a back they've hit paydirt. Anything beyond that is gravy. Mixon may or may not be the exception. he might last a good 5 years or more or he might rip the tendons in his knees going to the toilet for all we know, but throwing a ton of money at him for a long term deal makes little sense. I'd go year to year with decent money, but not long term over 2 years for big bucks. He's already close to his expiration date in league averages. He's been around 2 years already. Will he exceed the 2.5 years? If I had to bet I'd say no.

Mixon just finished his 3rd year. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-05-2020, 02:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A rookie contract that will still pay him ~$9m/yr.

I'm sorry, but no matter how often you repeat it, Joe Mixon is not an elite RB. If Joe Mixon is elite, then what does that make Nick Chubb, Ezekiel Elliott, Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry, etc? Mixon is clearly at least a full level below some RBs, so if Mixon is elite, what does that make them? Super Elite? Double Elite? Double Secret Elite?

He's a decent player, but teams regularly find players his caliber in later rounds or as undrafted players. Chris Carson was a 7th rounder, Marlon Mack was a 4th rounder, Aaron Jones was a 5th rounder, Phillip Lindsay was undrafted, and those guys are all more Mixon's level than the elite RBs in the league.

Paying Mixon $13.3m/yr is a terrible idea. There's literally only 11 OL making $13.3m+/yr, which means you could spend that money on a good FA OL who will not only provide better run blocking, but will also help protect your hopefully franchise QB from getting murdered.

9m is cheap for a franchise QB

Mixon is in the conversation with the elite backs you named. I don't want to give him a zeke level contract. Thats just too much. I want to add 3 years and 40m to what he has left. He is owed 1.7m this year. So he gets a big raise this year and essentially makes 10.425 a year for 4 years.

And we could still afford to pay more than one OL.

[Catmandude123]

(02-05-2020, 02:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A rookie contract that will still pay him ~$9m/yr.

I'm sorry, but no matter how often you repeat it, Joe Mixon is not an elite RB. If Joe Mixon is elite, then what does that make Nick Chubb, Ezekiel Elliott, Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry, etc? Mixon is clearly at least a full level below some RBs, so if Mixon is elite, what does that make them? Super Elite? Double Elite? Double Secret Elite?

He's a decent player, but teams regularly find players his caliber in later rounds or as undrafted players. Chris Carson was a 7th rounder, Marlon Mack was a 4th rounder, Aaron Jones was a 5th rounder, Phillip Lindsay was undrafted, and those guys are all more Mixon's level than the elite RBs in the league.

Paying Mixon $13.3m/yr is a terrible idea. There's literally only 11 OL making $13.3m+/yr, which means you could spend that money on a good FA OL who will not only provide better run blocking, but will also help protect your hopefully franchise QB from getting murdered.

If Dalton is cut then the 8.7 million difference plus Mixon's current salary is equal to the last years total for the positions. Burrow +Mixon > Dalton and Mixon. Win win situation. The opposing defense will have their hands full containing Burrow and it will only help Mixons numbers. Btw Mixon was THE top RB in the AFC in 2018 and had 1100 yds with what every one agrees was a total joke of a line. Maybe that's why Billicheck calls him "the best back in the league".

[*Nately120*]

(02-05-2020, 01:23 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Marvin was 8-25 vs them. Pretty pathtic.

Indeed, but I recall lots of those being close games. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-05-2020, 05:05 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 9m is cheap for a franchise QB

Mixon is in the conversation with the elite backs you named. I don't want to give him a zeke level contract. Thats just too much. I want to add 3 years and 40m to what he has left. He is owed 1.7m this year. So he gets a big raise this year and essentially makes 10.425 a year for 4 years.

And we could still afford to pay more than one OL.

The only conversation Mixon is in with the elite backs I named is the conversation that goes "Is Joe Mixon as good as these guys?"  "No."  conversation over. Lol

No matter what, Mixon is playing for $1.7m this year. Just because you want to spread out the cap hits to make it seem like you're proposing to pay him less, it doesn't change the fact you're proposing to give him $40m more for only 3 years more. That is paying $13.3m/yr. For a RB.

(02-05-2020, 11:01 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If Dalton is cut then the 8.7 million difference plus Mixon's current salary is equal to the last years total for the positions. Burrow +Mixon > Dalton and Mixon. Win win situation. The opposing defense will have their hands full containing Burrow and it will only help Mixons numbers. Btw Mixon was THE top RB in the AFC in 2018 and had 1100 yds with what every one agrees was a total joke of a line. Maybe that's why Billicheck calls him "the best back in the league".

Except the equation isn't just Burrow + Mixon vs Dalton + Mixon.... it's actually Burrow + Overpaid Mixon vs Burrow + Mixon + *INSERT TOP TIER FA OL HERE*.

I'll take the same players plus the top tier FA OL, thank you.

Also worth of note, here's two RBs after 3 years:
RB A: 667 carries/2,757 yards(4.1 YPC)/29 TD
RB B: 693 carries/2,931 yards(4.2 YPC)/17 TD

RB A is Jeremy Hill, RB B is Joe Mixon. Nobody would have proposed giving Jeremy Hill 3yr/$40m extension after 3 years.


- - - - - - - - - - - - -
If you really think Mixon is an elite RB, let him play his 4th year at $1.7m and prove it. You're already proposing paying him 3yr/$40m and making him the 4th highest paid RB in the league. What's the worst that could happen if he is somehow indeed the rare breed of RB that deserves paid in 2020? You have to offer him a few more million a year? That's a way better result than giving the guy $40m only to find out you paid Jeremy Hill 2.0 and you've already committed yourself to giving him a signing bonus and put dead cap restrictions on yourself if you need to cut him.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-05-2020, 11:46 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Indeed, but I recall lots of those being close games. 

Too true, Nate.

If you factor in the 11 games lost by one score as wins, REALLY Marvin was BASICALLY 19-14 against the Steelers.

Marvin was so close to turning around the Steelers record, obviously.