I don’t get the burrow or Bust thing?

[Whatever]

(02-13-2020, 05:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: Nah, Luck has no shot. He wasn't a top 5 QB while he played and honestly he had some good years but he never even made a 1st team all pro. No QB is getting in without a Super Bowl (not even an AFC Title), MVP or 1st team All Pro. He will go down as a good player who could have been better.

Calvin has a chance, but I think he is going to run into an issue of a player back log and then an ensuing wave of QB's. Only 4-8 can get in each year and I think that is what is working against him. I think you also have the problem that Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, and Brandon Marshall all also have statistical arguments to be in the HoF from the same era.

Phil Simms has a SB ring, a 1st team All Pro, and an MVP and he still isn't in.  It's insanely tough to get in as a QB, especially without a ring.

[Au165]

(02-13-2020, 05:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: Phil Simms has a SB ring, a 1st team All Pro, and an MVP and he still isn't in.  It's insanely tough to get in as a QB, especially without a ring.

Plus we are about to get a wave of QB's who deserve it. There are only 26 modern era QB's in the HoF and Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Eli are basically locks with many saying Rivers too. That is a 20% increase from one era alone, I think getting a QB in will be really hard outside of that group going forward because of that exclusivity they like to keep positionally. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-13-2020, 12:02 PM)kevin Wrote: You don't get it.  Get this.  AJ Green & Andy Dalton are probably gone in free agency.  This is as Carson & Chad leaving after 2010.  In came Dalton & Green.   Now in 2020, they have drafted Boyd & Ross already.   The Heisman Trophy winner, SEC winner, National Championship winner, the guy that broke a lot of NCAA passing records WILL become a Bengal.  If you still don't get it,  Burrow scores a lot of points and Bengals score no points.  Bengals needs points on the board.  If you still don't get it,  PB Stadium has more empty seats than any NFL city.  Money is a factor.  The Heisman quarterback will sell season tickets the moment he is drafted, and help fill the money making luxury suits.  Bengals better start getting money spending customers in the stands or they will have to move to another city or go out of business all together. 

Bengals will never get a Mike Ditka deal again.  Plus this is no Akili Smith.  Burrow is about as sure of a pick as you can get.  Boomer says take him and I think Carson says take him, and they know quarterbacking in the NFL.   I agree they will need more of a team around him.  Bengals do draft 1st in every round.   2 is like a 1, and 3 is like a 2.  Bengals need to grab a TOP Offensive Tackle to bookend with Jonah Williams.  They need to grab a TOP 4-3 Linebacker who can make plays sideline to sideline against run and pass.  Burrow and these 2 guys by the 1st pick in 3.  That's a good draft. 

Some of you fans need to stop kicking the can down the road looking to drafts years ahead every year.  Some saying Bengals should go 0-16 every year for the Draft.  The draft fans may like that.  The game fans won't.  The stadium will be empty and this team will fold or move. No Fans, No Money, No Team.   Bring the Heisman quarterback in NOW.   This is NOT just any other college quarterback.  People that don't know the difference between getting Burrow from McCarron or Finley would never be smart enough to draft a Marino or Peyton Manning.  Get this Heisman scoring machine in here NOW.  If he had flopped in Play-Offs, but he didn't   HE WON THE BIG GAMES, something else Bengals never do.  Many reasons to add scoring points and winning big games to this team in Burrow, Joe Heisman. 

PS :  Burrow was coached in an NFL Saints type offense at LSU.  He grew up in Ohio and went to Ohio State, so he knows Ohio football weather.   He comes in already knowing an NFL offense and a hurry up offense.  He is great in 2 minute drill winning games.  He comes in ready to go.  Yes, he will have to learn the NFL, but suit him up and get him in there.  He could be our Mahomes.  Get him in here.

Hey, great post Kev.

[Whatever]

(02-13-2020, 05:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: Plus we are about to get a wave of QB's who deserve it. There are only 26 modern era QB's in the HoF and Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and Eli are basically locks with many saying Rivers too. That is a 20% increase from one era alone, I think getting a QB in will be really hard outside of that group going forward because of that exclusivity they like to keep positionally. 

Well, Rodgers is also a lock. I would also say Russell Wilson is probably going in.  And there's a lot of guys that are currently playing that haven't been mentioned like Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, etc that have better resumes than Luck.

[XenoMorph]

(02-04-2020, 12:33 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Genuinely want to get it, but. I’m not in love with him. Could he end up being elite? Sure. But I see him in that Matt stafford cam newton 6-9 nfl qb type range. I see love also in that range but that’s not point of post. Burrow could also bust hard. If ur offered 3-4 1st round picks. U take it. Even if they’re not all this year. That’s means u have 8 1st round picks over next 4 years. U take that all day. U don’t risk it all for one player. Also tell me a qb besides Andrew luck who came into a bad situation and immediately turned it around. Pat mahomes? No they went 12-4 the year they drafted him surrounded by talent. Deshaun Watson? Try again. Surrounded by talent. Lamar jackson? Surrounded by talent. I could go down the list but.... pin the being we need as many high picks as we can be aside despite being optimistic about free agency, we are probably doing the same shit. If that’s the case, if we don’t trade back we’re what? Minimum  3 years away from actually contending. While joe could be great, he could also bust and if u get a blown away offer u have to take it.

its always a gamble...

but do you take the gamble on a QB that just broke most the NCAA single season records.

Or the gamble of taking more picks and more chances of picking wrong?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-13-2020, 06:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, Rodgers is also a lock. I would also say Russell Wilson is probably going in.  And there's a lot of guys that are currently playing that haven't been mentioned like Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, etc that have better resumes than Luck.

No probably on Wilson, he’s a lock.

[grampahol]

(02-12-2020, 02:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is good news for Tua, hope he can play in the NFL but man he has had some injuries as BF74 here says.

Tua got his injuries against college players. I don't think pro players will have a hell of a lot of sympathy for him.

[Au165]

This is a great breakdown on what he does well, and what he doesn't. The writer goes in to how he over comes some of the things he doesn't do well.

https://theathletic.com/1593471/2020/02/17/teds-film-room-why-joe-burrow-is-worthy-of-the-number-one-pick

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(02-13-2020, 05:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: Nah, Luck has no shot. He wasn't a top 5 QB while he played and honestly he had some good years but he never even made a 1st team all pro. No QB is getting in without a Super Bowl (not even an AFC Title), MVP or 1st team All Pro. He will go down as a good player who could have been better.

Calvin has a chance, but I think he is going to run into an issue of a player back log and then an ensuing wave of QB's. Only 4-8 can get in each year and I think that is what is working against him. I think you also have the problem that Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, and Brandon Marshall all also have statistical arguments to be in the HoF from the same era.

I wouldn't rule out Luck entirely, not least because the HoF criteria/voting may change in the future.

(He is though a long shot)

[Au165]

(02-18-2020, 11:23 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I wouldn't rule out Luck entirely, not least because the HoF criteria/voting may change in the future.

(He is though a long shot)

Pro Football Reference has a scoring system they use to predict someone's HoF worthiness based on stats. A normal QB that get's in has a score around 103, Luck's score is about 33 (85th out of eligible QB's). To put that score into Andy Dalton is a 37. 

The only thing HoF worthy about Luck was his hype and potential coming out.  

[Au165]

This note from FMIA is actually a really good thing to read on Burrow. Scheme mattered a lot and when you watch tape from last year to this year you can definitely see the difference in terms of how many guys are out running routes. I don't necessarily knock them for it because they didn't really know how good he would be at alluding pressure but this year that made a difference especially when he did need to make something happen outside the play design, those extra options often became beneficiaries of his ability to make something happen.

Jeremiah: “He was training an hour from my house with [QB coach] Jordan Palmer. He was out there with Sam Darnold and Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. I went up there and watched him work out, throw. I had a chance to visit with him for 20 minutes. I said, ‘Joe, you’re gonna get asked this question at the combine: Why the unbelievable leap from last year to this year?’

“He said, first of all, he’s a grad transfer. Most grad transfers transfer in the spring. He said, ‘I got to LSU after the freshmen had already reported for full camp.’ So you talk about trying to learn everything in a heartbeat and try to get to know your teammates, and then plug in and be ready to play. That’s the first part of it. Second part, he hadn’t played much football in the previous three years. There was some rust. Okay, this makes sense. And then schematically, and this is the big one, they were in a lot of seven-man protection in that offense last year. Burrow, his greatest gift, and you can see it this year when you watch him, is he has the vision to be able to take a snapshot of the entire field, to see everything, to process, and to throw accurately. Well, when you’re in seven-man protection and you limit the number of guys that can get out on a route, you’re limiting the answers you can give somebody. He was handicapped by them trying to mass-protect him. There’s no room for him to use his athletic ability to take off and go if you want. There’s no room for him to slide around, more around, find windows. It was just a congested brand of football.

“And then, you look at this year. He gets [passing-game coordinator] Joe Brady in there. He becomes a master of the offense. At the beginning of the season, they were in a bunch of six-man protection, which he’s playing really well. And he said eventually Joe Brady said in week three or four, ‘Let’s just go five-man protection. Let’s get everybody out into the route.’ When they did that, [he] completed about 80 percent from that point on.

“His super-power is his ability to see the entire field, to work through progressions, and then throw the ball accurately. So they kind of unlocked that super-power this last year. And the rest is history.”

[Au165]

Prepare for this comp often, I actually gave it a couple weeks ago in terms of his throwing motion and specifically his boundary ball placement.

From MMQB...

Joe Burrow’s not Tom Brady, but.… I’ve heard the comp enough, and for long enough (it goes back to early fall for me), from scouting types, that I had to check it out.

“Yeah, and I’m already prepared for the backlash on Twitter, because I know it’s coming,” Jeremiah said. “Because at the combine when they ask me for my comparison, how does this sound—you say somebody’s a more athletic version of the greatest football player of all-time. Look, Kevin Faulk is there at LSU, he played with Brady, he’s been around Joe Burrow, he’s told every scout that comes through there, this guy is just like Tom.

“Mechanically, he’s just like Tom. He functions in an offense where we just talked about getting guys in the route, good decisions, accuracy, all that stuff, very similar to Tom. He looks just like him.”

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-24-2020, 09:41 AM)Au165 Wrote: This note from FMIA is actually a really good thing to read on Burrow. Scheme mattered a lot and when you watch tape from last year to this year you can definitely see the difference in terms of how many guys are out running routes. I don't necessarily knock them for it because they didn't really know how good he would be at alluding pressure but this year that made a difference especially when he did need to make something happen outside the play design, those extra options often became beneficiaries of his ability to make something happen.

Jeremiah: “He was training an hour from my house with [QB coach] Jordan Palmer. He was out there with Sam Darnold and Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. I went up there and watched him work out, throw. I had a chance to visit with him for 20 minutes. I said, ‘Joe, you’re gonna get asked this question at the combine: Why the unbelievable leap from last year to this year?’

“He said, first of all, he’s a grad transfer. Most grad transfers transfer in the spring. He said, ‘I got to LSU after the freshmen had already reported for full camp.’ So you talk about trying to learn everything in a heartbeat and try to get to know your teammates, and then plug in and be ready to play. That’s the first part of it. Second part, he hadn’t played much football in the previous three years. There was some rust. Okay, this makes sense. And then schematically, and this is the big one, they were in a lot of seven-man protection in that offense last year. Burrow, his greatest gift, and you can see it this year when you watch him, is he has the vision to be able to take a snapshot of the entire field, to see everything, to process, and to throw accurately. Well, when you’re in seven-man protection and you limit the number of guys that can get out on a route, you’re limiting the answers you can give somebody. He was handicapped by them trying to mass-protect him. There’s no room for him to use his athletic ability to take off and go if you want. There’s no room for him to slide around, more around, find windows. It was just a congested brand of football.

“And then, you look at this year. He gets [passing-game coordinator] Joe Brady in there. He becomes a master of the offense. At the beginning of the season, they were in a bunch of six-man protection, which he’s playing really well. And he said eventually Joe Brady said in week three or four, ‘Let’s just go five-man protection. Let’s get everybody out into the route.’ When they did that, [he] completed about 80 percent from that point on.

“His super-power is his ability to see the entire field, to work through progressions, and then throw the ball accurately. So they kind of unlocked that super-power this last year. And the rest is history.”

(02-24-2020, 10:09 AM)Au165 Wrote: Prepare for this comp often, I actually gave it a couple weeks ago in terms of his throwing motion and specifically his boundary ball placement.

From MMQB...

Joe Burrow’s not Tom Brady, but.… I’ve heard the comp enough, and for long enough (it goes back to early fall for me), from scouting types, that I had to check it out.

“Yeah, and I’m already prepared for the backlash on Twitter, because I know it’s coming,” Jeremiah said. “Because at the combine when they ask me for my comparison, how does this sound—you say somebody’s a more athletic version of the greatest football player of all-time. Look, Kevin Faulk is there at LSU, he played with Brady, he’s been around Joe Burrow, he’s told every scout that comes through there, this guy is just like Tom.

“Mechanically, he’s just like Tom. He functions in an offense where we just talked about getting guys in the route, good decisions, accuracy, all that stuff, very similar to Tom. He looks just like him.”

Wow, very good read on Burrow. I have been seeing this myself the more I watch of Burrow. He can take a snap shot of the
entire Defense and as has been said, he is better without max protection cause he has more room and more options. I see the
same thing with Burrow, reminds me of Brady in the pocket the way he reads a Defense and the way he steps into his throws 
with no fear and of course the way both live to prove people wrong.

Faulk would know, didn't know he was at LSU.

[3wt]

(02-13-2020, 12:02 PM)kevin Wrote: Agree with your whole post Kevin.   Especially:

"...this is no Akili Smith.  Burrow is about as sure of a pick as you can get.  Boomer says take him and I think Carson says take him, and they know quarterbacking in the NFL.   I agree they will need more of a team around him.  Bengals do draft 1st in every round.   2 is like a 1, and 3 is like a 2.  Bengals need to grab a TOP Offensive Tackle to bookend with Jonah Williams.  They need to grab a TOP 4-3 Linebacker who can make plays sideline to sideline against run and pass.  Burrow and these 2 guys by the 1st pick in 3.  That's a good draft... 

PS :  Burrow was coached in an NFL Saints type offense at LSU.  He grew up in Ohio and went to Ohio State, so he knows Ohio football weather.   He comes in already knowing an NFL offense and a hurry up offense.  He is great in 2 minute drill winning games.  He comes in ready to go.  Yes, he will have to learn the NFL, but suit him up and get him in there.  He could be our Mahomes.  Get him in here."

Everyone speaks highly of this guy;  PFF, Ross Tucker, Boomer and pretty much all the talking heads.  The only question is would you take him or Tua if Tua was healthy.   Greg Cosell from NFL films definitively says he would take Burrow.   And that is acknowledging that Tua is a really really good QB.

And the reason is that his intangibles are elite: the ability to see the whole field all at once, the ability to make extremely accurate throws, the ability to throw his receivers open, the ability to fit balls into extremely tight windows, the willingness to take calculated chances, the willingness of his players to ball out for him, the mental toughness to pull a win out of what looks like a spiraling loss, the ability to say the right thing at the right time, his EXTREME competitiveness/ desire to win, his ability to win (like he did against Clemson) when you take away the strength of his game (the center of the field) and he beats you by winning with his weakness (the long ball on the edges), his willingness to play like he's at war, his ability to throw on the run, his ability to run the ball successfully and athletically, his strength pre snap, post snap and adjusting his game in the face of adversity, his reputation among teammates, coaches and his adversaries for great intelligence 

He does not have the arm Mahomes does.   But he literally checks every other box.   Everyone says he's the best prospect since Mahomes, and before that Luck.

When you find a guy like that you just take him and start by protecting and equipping him.  That is the prime directive involved in literally every FA and draft decision.  Give him a great offensive line and great receivers.   Then look at defense.   This would require at least one really good defender and one really good offensive lineman in FA to start, along with making sure AJ Green is here.

Trading back for any amount of draft picks would be the last thing we would want to do. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I had to redo my last post, it was all screwed up, don't know what happened but great post Au165.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-26-2020, 01:09 PM)3wt Wrote: Everyone speaks highly of this guy;  PFF, Ross Tucker, Boomer and pretty much all the talking heads.  The only question is would you take him or Tua if Tua was healthy.   Greg Cosell from NFL films definitively says he would take Burrow.   And that is acknowledging that Tua is a really really good QB.

And the reason is that his intangibles are elite: the ability to see the whole field all at once, the ability to make extremely accurate throws, the ability to throw his receivers open, the ability to fit balls into extremely tight windows, the willingness to take calculated chances, the willingness of his players to ball out for him, the mental toughness to pull a win out of what looks like a spiraling loss, the ability to say the right thing at the right time, his EXTREME competitiveness/ desire to win, his ability to win (like he did against Clemson) when you take away the strength of his game (the center of the field) and he beats you by winning with his weakness (the long ball on the edges), his willingness to play like he's at war, his ability to throw on the run, his ability to run the ball successfully and athletically, his strength pre snap, post snap and adjusting his game in the face of adversity, his reputation among teammates, coaches and his adversaries for great intelligence 

He does not have the arm Mahomes does.   But he literally checks every other box.   Everyone says he's the best prospect since Mahomes, and before that Luck.

When you find a guy like that you just take him and start by protecting and equipping him.  That is the prime directive involved in literally every FA and draft decision.  Give him a great offensive line and great receivers.   Then look at defense.   This would require at least one really good defender and one really good offensive lineman in FA to start, along with making sure AJ Green is here.

Trading back for any amount of draft picks would be the last thing we would want to do. 

Another great post, great one here 3wt. Seeing the same thing, lets bring back AJ on an incentive laden contract cause Joe wants
him here. Bring in a Guard, Ryan Glasgow's brother Graham seems the most likely for us and a linebacker that can cover and tackle.

Just heard Alec Ogletree got cut by the Giants as a cap casualty and seems the most likely at this point. Glasgow/Ogletree in FA.

We can easily afford it, then go get weapons and future replacements for our good players in the Draft would be my plan.

Again, very well said on Burrow 3wt. This is a rare QB with rare skills and the one weakness people give Mahomes is his pocket 
passing which is not much of a weakness, but Burrow could be the better pocket passer of the two. Mahomes best throws are on 
the run. Burrow can do both, not near as strong of an arm but he could be the better pocket passer.

Joe Burrow the Photographer.

Takes a snapshot of the Defense prior to the play.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-26-2020, 08:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Another great post, great one here 3wt. Seeing the same thing, lets bring back AJ on an incentive laden contract cause Joe wants
him here. Bring in a Guard, Ryan Glasgow's brother Graham seems the most likely for us and a linebacker that can cover and tackle.

Just heard Alec Ogletree got cut by the Giants as a cap casualty and seems the most likely at this point. Glasgow/Ogletree in FA.

We can easily afford it, then go get weapons and future replacements for our good players in the Draft would be my plan.

Again, very well said on Burrow 3wt. This is a rare QB with rare skills and the one weakness people give Mahomes is his pocket 
passing which is not much of a weakness, but Burrow could be the better pocket passer of the two. Mahomes best throws are on 
the run. Burrow can do both, not near as strong of an arm but he could be the better pocket passer.

Joe Burrow the Photographer.

Takes a snapshot of the Defense prior to the play.

Agree with everything, but you just have to get used to the fact that AJ won't be getting an incentive laden contract.  There's just no way he signs a deal like that knowing that he will play under the tag (I believe $17 million guaranteed) and then will hit free agency the next year.  Give him a market value 3 year deal.  Keeps him in line with the top WRs, but won't kill the team if he struggles with injuries since it's only 3 years.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-28-2020, 01:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Agree with everything, but you just have to get used to the fact that AJ won't be getting an incentive laden contract.  There's just no way he signs a deal like that knowing that he will play under the tag (I believe $17 million guaranteed) and then will hit free agency the next year.  Give him a market value 3 year deal.  Keeps him in line with the top WRs, but won't kill the team if he struggles with injuries since it's only 3 years.

Alright, thanks. Too bad, just would be better for the team if AJ did get an incentive laden contract.

I just think injuries should always be taken into account no matter how good you are when healthy.

If we pay him big we just have to hope he stays healthy.

Big risk.