Todd mccshay

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-08-2020, 01:33 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Right.

Draft the current worthy player.

Not the one who is injured and rely solely on his past merits.

Known injury risks with Tua.

Unknown perceptional risks with Burrow.

I'll take the latter. 

And he didnt suck in 2018. The offense was entirely different, with no help improving his arm talent on a team he doesnt have chemistry with. He was still capable enough to make big time completions while getting hit and completing passes into tight coverage.

We all saw what he did when the offense changed and he had help improving his accuracy. 

Doesnt get any easier than this

[BengalsRocker]

(02-08-2020, 03:41 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: And he didnt suck in 2018. The offense was entirely different, with no help improving his arm talent on a team he doesnt have chemistry with. He was still capable enough to make big time completions while getting hit and completing passes into tight coverage.

We all saw what he did when the offense changed and he had help improving his accuracy. 

Doesnt get any easier than this

I agree.

Either way both are a tumble of the dice to amount to anything.

Odds at the moment just weigh in Burrow's favor on that throw.

[Bronxbengal]

(02-05-2020, 02:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: I can actually find plenty of issues with Tua. I have questions about his performance's versus the better teams he played. He needed Jalen Hurts to bail him out last year in the SEC title game. He has been surrounded by some of the best run after catch WR's we have seen in a long time along with an O line full of high draft picks and a stable of NFL backs. His injury red flags are the worst of a top end QB since Sam Bradford and his college injuries continued into his pro career. Aside from the hip having both ankles requiring surgery, even if repaired they are healthier than before, it still raises questions about his bodies ability to take the beating.

I feel like Burrow has taken a lot of heat of Tua from getting the scrutiny he probably would have gotten had he not been hurt and we were debating Burrow vs Tua for #1 overall. 

I agree with your comments about Tua. I watch many but not all of the Bama games this year. I didn’t see Tua make too many NFL throws. His yardage came from short passes and his WR getting yardage after the catch. I am not impressed with Tua even if he was healthy regardless how many years of tape they have on Tua.

Burrow has that “IT” factor. His season was the greatest ever for any QB. I seen Burrow make all the throws which is something Tua never did. I question anyone judgement if they say Tua is better.


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[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-08-2020, 03:45 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I agree.

Either way both are a tumble of the dice to amount to anything.

Odds at the moment just weigh in Burrow's favor on that throw.

I 100% agree with you on that. It's TRUE of any player in any draft, but you draft players based on potential and need. I think there are a few qbs in this draft who could become good starting nfl qbs, but most of them will take time to really develop into good players. The Bengals look to be in a position that wants to improve at QB as soon as they can which means picking the right guy to start day 1 and there isnt a guy who can do that in this draft outside Burrow. And if the bengals DO plan to try to mirror what Sean Mccay did in some way it starts with a rookie qb contract starting from day 1.

However I will say that of the day 2 QBs, the guy who I think has a lot of potential and isnt getting a lot of talk right now is Eason. He needs some time, but man I think he has the potential to be a really good player.

[jfkbengals]

(02-05-2020, 06:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Both of them also had fumbles Burrows was a strip that flew out of his hands into a defensive tackle...He also got the tackle from that lol. Tua's fumble the ball just popped out of his hands on the run.

But passing stats don't tell the whole story.

The LSU defense was giving Tua fits in the first half shutting down Harris and getting pressure. Tua struggled. In the second half Alabama finally got Najee Harris going which opened up the play action for Tua. Joe Burrow was under pressure the entire game and was sacked 5 times but he thrived also rushing for 60+ yards and making plays off script.

Joe Burrow had a hell of alot better game.

That settles it.  I want the QB who is willing and able to bring down the DT...

(02-06-2020, 09:05 AM)Au165 Wrote: Everyone has their one dude they fall in love with and it goes horribly wrong. Mel Kiper's was Jimmy Clausen. There were a lot of draft Analysts that thought Jake Locker was "the guy". 

And yet he continues to go on TV and give his opinions, despite making the statement that he would retire from draft analysis if Clausen weren't a top 10 pick.

[Luvnit2]

Drafts are always a crap shoot and QB's in the draft may be the biggest crap shoot of all. I have seen great college QB's for multiple years flame out. I have seen a guy like Brady who was mediocre in college be best of all time. I have seen Manning live up to the hype, I saw can't miss Luck be very good, but not great.

But, if we keep pick #1 and draft Tua (injured) over Burrow the fans will implode even further. Our fans want a healthy pick and a pick with a great chance of being a healthy roster spot player week #1. Tua is not that guy regardless of if he is better or worse than Burrow.

[Jpoore]

(02-08-2020, 03:41 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: And he didnt suck in 2018. The offense was entirely different, with no help improving his arm talent on a team he doesnt have chemistry with. He was still capable enough to make big time completions while getting hit and completing passes into tight coverage.

We all saw what he did when the offense changed and he had help improving his accuracy. 

Doesnt get any easier than this

So what ur saying is he needs a specific scheme tailored to his strengths with great players to succeed

[Jpoore]

(02-08-2020, 10:37 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Yeah he sucked! That's why he went to a bowl game against the hottest team in college that year in UCF and beat them! He even took a HUGE hit in that game and got up. That hit would have put tua down fir the entire next season! 

Man he beat ucf? Oh wow?does he Want a cookie? Please. It’s ucf. It’s not a big time school. Bottom line is he had less than 300 yards passing and a bad 57 percent completion percentage.

[Jpoore]

(02-08-2020, 12:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Burrow did not "suck" in 2018.  As a first year starter, he showed a lot of poise and promise as a confident leader of a top level program in the most competitive conference in NCAA football.

In 2019, he delivered on all of that promise that he showed was there in 2018, unlike Jordan Love, who regressed horribly..

Less than 3000 yards and a 57 percent completion percent she is not sucking?? and u give Jordan love joe Brady this is a whole different conversation but that’s besides the point. The only time burrow was good was when he had elite talent and a scheme perfectly tailored to him. He will have neither with cincy.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-09-2020, 05:04 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Less than 3000 yards and a 57 percent completion percent she is not sucking?? and u give Jordan love joe Brady this is a whole different conversation but that’s besides the point. The only time burrow was good was when he had elite talent and a scheme perfectly tailored to him. He will have neither with cincy.

Below are the stat lines comparing both Carson Palmer and Joe Burrow's Junior Seasons.


CP: 221   377   58.6   2,717   13   12   124.2
JB:  219   379   57.8   2,894   16    5    133.2


So, you tell me.  Does under 3K yards and around 58% completion rate suck?  How about 16TD to 5 INTs with a 133.2 rating?  Does that say "suck" to you? And, let's not forget, both of those guys played on big time teams, in competitive conferences, in games that really matter versus top notch competition.

[Jpoore]

(02-09-2020, 05:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Below are the stat lines comparing both Carson Palmer and Joe Burrow's Junior Seasons.


CP: 221   377   58.6   2,717   13   12   124.2
JB:  219   379   57.8   2,894   16    5    133.2


So, you tell me.  Does under 3K yards and around 58% completion rate suck?  How about 16TD to 5 INTs with a 133.2 rating?  Does that say "suck" to you? And, let's not forget, both of those guys played on big time teams, in competitive conferences, in games that really matter versus top notch competition.

Yes. That’s why Palmer was a bust too. That sucks. 16 tds. So he barely averaged 1 td a game. Man that’s great.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-05-2020, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean by this.  The only really good team Bama played before Tua went down was LSU and when you look at their head-to-head stats in that game there is not a big difference

Tua  418 yds, 4 td, 168.3 rating
Joe  393 yds, 3 td, 189.5 rating

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  He was 21-40 with one of those being a long bomb with less than a minute left in garbage time.

He looked pretty bad against Georgia in the SEC title game going 10-25.

He may have put up decent numbers in the Clemson national title game, but he didn't look good.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-09-2020, 05:04 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Less than 3000 yards and a 57 percent completion percent she is not sucking?? and u give Jordan love joe Brady this is a whole different conversation but that’s besides the point. The only time burrow was good was when he had elite talent and a scheme perfectly tailored to him. He will have neither with cincy.

i'm starting to wonder if you really watch football or just look at stats.

If you watched Burrow play last year, you would have seen a guy that progressively got better after missing a large chunk of the offseason, learned a new (albeit archaic) offense and started to look pretty good by the end of the year.