The Oline - where is it really ?

[*bengalfan74*]

The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.

The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?

Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)

C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4

G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade

T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A

Two players listed on IR:

T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade

First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.

Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.

Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.

Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.

In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.

[WhodeyRay]

(02-05-2020, 12:07 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.

The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?

Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)

C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4

G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade

T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A

Two players listed on IR:

T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade

First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.

Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.

Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.

Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.

In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.

I think you pretty much summed it up. We have a lot of back up caliber players starting. I am not ready to give up just yet on Price although it isnt looking promising. I just keep remembering how bad Boling was when he got some starting time year 2. Then he turned into to a fine lineman.  With the college offenses most lineman struggle until year 3. Hell it took Fisher with KC almost 4 years. My uncle lives in KC and I remember Fisher being viewed like we did OG to KC fans. But to some it up, yes we need some line help. At least 1 guard and a rt.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2020, 12:07 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The state of the Oline has been a hot topic and much debated subject over the last few seasons. And it's obvious it needs upgraded especially if we're going with a rookie QB.

The line seemed to show some improvement late in the season. But how much of that was just playing not so good competition ? Who on the Oline is worth keeping, who needs to go ?

Here's a list of guys currently on roster and their stats from pff: (I don't have access to other stats, pressures etc.)

C Billy Price 3rd season 588 snaps 4 penalties gave up 3 sacks overall pff grade 41.8
C Trey Hopkins 5th season 1,097 snaps 2 penalties 4 sacks grade 62.4

G John Jerry 10th season 445 snaps 2 penalties 8 sacks 55.6 grade
G Michael Jordan 2nd season 648 snaps 6 penalties 6 sacks 43.7 grade
G John Miller 6th season 779 snaps 3 penalties 2 sacks 58.6 grade

T Fred Johnson 2nd season 144 snaps 2 penalties 0 sacks 62.6 grade
T Cordy Glenn 9th season 291 snaps 0 penalties 4 sacks 68.4 grade
T Bobby Hart 6th season 1,086 snaps 8 penalties 6 sacks 57.7 grade
T Isaiah Prince 2nd season 70 snaps 2 penalties 1 sack 45.6 grade
T Jonah Williams 2nd season N/A

Two players listed on IR:

T O'shea Dugas 2nd season N/A
G Alex Redmond 4th season 189 snaps 1 penalty 2 sacks 50.6 grade

First off I don't believe pff is the tell all end all. However, these stats line up pretty well with my eye test so..... to say the least we have pretty much a group of barely serviceable NFL wise Olinemen.

Just for some examples the lowest grade on Cowboys Oline was like 68. They have two guys in low 70's and two in mid to high 80's grade wise. Ravens had two guys in 70's two mid to high 80's lowest I saw was again like 68.

Back to the Bengals. I'm quite sure we'd grade out in the bottom 1/4 of NFL, if not the worst. Billy Price thus far has been hot garbage ! He's got bust written all over him. Do we cut bait and run ? John Jerry will be entering season 10 and he gave up 8 sacks in 445 snaps with 55 grade. I don't want to keep our best graded lineman Glenn. Bobby Hart is just a penalty machine and not that good.

Then comes Jonah Williams, who knows what he'll be ? If there's any decent free agents out there we badly need to get at least one if not two ? And we need to move on from some of these guys.

In my mind we need a pretty major overhaul of the Oline.

Well, you know what is up as usual my friend. Need to grab at the very least one good RT or Guard in Free Agency.

We have a sad group besides Trey Hop and the upside of Jonah. Finally got a decent Center is my one gratitude.

Have to protect our new guy in Burrow regardless of how good he is. Make it easy for the man.

[lone bengal]

My assessment of the O-line

Jonah Williams - If he's good he will be a huge part of the rebuild. Fans will jump on him early if he struggles but this will essentially be his first year we need to give it time to see if he can play.

Hopkins - Smart player / only lineman we have that plays average or above

John Miller - 6th year in the league has been a below average guard most of his career don’t see that changing. The Bengals will start him because he’s not terrible and their paying him. Stats quo upgrading won’t cross their minds.

Bobby Hart - 6th year in the league has never and will never be a starting quality tackle. When he dosen’t play horrific fan’s refer it to as Hart not playing that bad.

Michael Jordan - Young with good size. Tough spot to start as a 4th round rookie. Looked horrible at the beginning of the year played less worse as the year went on. He has potential but I won’t consider it a reason not to try to upgrade at guard with a quality vet to compete with him and miller.

Billy Price - I don’t think he can play guard at the next level and Hopkins is the starting center for the future. Price would be a trade candidate for me try to save face and get what you can from a center needy team. He has two years left with the team because there’s no way there picking up his 5th year option.

Fred Johnson- Young with upside like him as a swing tackle. Won’t make his addition as a reason to draft a RT high or add a proven free agent.

John Jerry- 35 year old bad tackle on a rebuilding team, see you later

Alex Redmond- Seems like a career backup guard, penalty issues along with a PED suspension. If resigned should not cost that much.

Isaiah Price / O’Shea Dugas -Seem like bottom of the roster/ practice squad level type tackles, nothing to get excited about.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-05-2020, 12:20 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: I think you pretty much summed it up. We have a lot of back up caliber players starting. I am not ready to give up just yet on Price although it isnt looking promising. I just keep remembering how bad Boling was when he got some starting time year 2. Then he turned into to a fine lineman.  With the college offenses most lineman struggle until year 3. Hell it took Fisher with KC almost 4 years. My uncle lives in KC and I remember Fisher being viewed like we did OG to KC fans. But to some it up, yes we need some line help. At least 1 guard and a rt.

Yep, I'm on the fence with Price. Same for Jordan. Here's to hoping they can turn the corner. 

(02-05-2020, 12:48 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, you know what is up as usual my friend. Need to grab at the very least one good RT or Guard in Free Agency.

We have a sad group besides Trey Hop and the upside of Jonah. Finally got a decent Center is my one gratitude.

Have to protect our new guy in Burrow regardless of how good he is. Make it easy for the man.

In my mind, what's left of it. Hopkins, J. Williams, the new guy Johnson, and maybe John Miller are the only guys I wanna keep. Or perhaps I should say cutting any or all of the rest, trading Glenn or Hart if they can won't be a bad thing. We have to improve - a lot.

They've got to make some moves !

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-05-2020, 01:02 AM)lone bengal Wrote: My assessment of the O-line

Jonah Williams - If he's good he will be a huge part of the rebuild. Fans will jump on him early if he struggles but this will essentially be his first year we need to give it time to see if he can play.

Hopkins - Smart player / only lineman we have that plays average or above

John Miller - 6th year in the league has been a below average guard most of his career don’t see that changing. The Bengals will start him because he’s not terrible and their paying him. Stats quo upgrading won’t cross their minds.

Bobby Hart - 6th year in the league has never and will never be a starting quality tackle. When he dosen’t  play horrific fan’s refer it to as Hart not playing that bad.

Michael Jordan -  Young with good size. Tough spot to start as a 4th round rookie. Looked horrible at the beginning of the year played less worse as the year went on. He has potential but I won’t consider it a reason not to try to upgrade at guard with a quality vet to compete with him and miller.

Billy Price  -  I don’t think he can play guard at the next level and Hopkins is the starting center for the future. Price would be a trade candidate for me try to save face and get what you can from a center needy team. He has two years left with the team because there’s no way there picking up his 5th year option.

Fred Johnson-  Young with upside like him as a swing tackle. Won’t make his addition as a reason to draft a RT high or add a proven free agent.

John Jerry- 35 year old bad tackle on a rebuilding team, see you later

Alex Redmond-  Seems like a career backup guard, penalty issues along with a PED suspension. If resigned should not cost that much.

Isaiah Price / O’Shea Dugas  -Seem like bottom of the roster/ practice squad level type tackles, nothing to get excited about.

I'm hoping they cut/trade both Glenn and Hart. Of course that would probably mean both drafting a tackle very early and getting a decent vet free agent. Hoping they'll do both.

Trading Price (if they can) wouldn't bother me. I mean there's part of me that thinks give him one more chance. But other part says we need results on the field NOW ! Not hopes for being, ok, down the road.

One of the bigger problems with this team IMO is hanging onto marginal/bad players to long, hoping.

[Bengal Dude]

As far as I'm concerned, Hopkins and Jonah are the only ones with their starting jobs locked up for next season. LG, RG, and RT should be up for grabs, but I have a feeling that maybe only LG is open, with it being Jordan's job to lose.

[lone bengal]

(02-05-2020, 01:18 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm hoping they cut/trade both Glenn and Hart. Of course that would probably mean both drafting a tackle very early and getting a decent vet free agent. Hoping they'll do both.

Trading Price (if they can) wouldn't bother me. I mean there's part of me that thinks give him one more chance. But other part says we need results on the field NOW ! Not hopes for being, ok, down the road.

One of the bigger problems with this team IMO is hanging onto marginal/bad players to long, hoping.

Glenn is good as gone. Don’t see the Bengals signing a big free agent tackle so they probably won’t cut Hart until someone on the roster shows there better. The only good thing with Hart is I believe his contact is team friendly if they cut him. That’s there biggest problem in my opinion. Just settling for ok or below average instead of looking for great or better. Like they could sign Joe Tuney but they’ll probably just be like Miller isn’t terrible and Jordan has some potential. Cutting Preston Brown early was a refreshing move but they still haven’t show the willingness to sign impact or top level free agents.

[kevin]

In response to the OP question : The Oline-where is it really ?

It is Worst in NFL and has been Worst in NFL since Whit & Zeitler left after 2016. So 2017, 2018, 2019 Worst in NFL.

To anybody that tries to say different, you are wrong. Og & Fish failed big time and so did Glenn and so has Price so far. Add it all up and it really is the Worst O Line in NFL last 3 years, it really, really, really, really is. Really.

The OP is correct that they need to bring in more blockers. I suggest pick #33 as the first pick in Round 2. What is the point of drafting Burrow and having Mixon, Boyd if we have no Blocking ? Really. The first pick after Burrow, get a BLOCKER in here.

The Jonah is suppose to be good at LT and if we get a real talent early to play RT, that is a great start.

[*psychdoctor*]

If the Bengals go with Burrow, then they should pick 3 OL within the next 5 picks. They will not bring in a top tier OL. It has to be via the draft. My hope is that the Bengals bring in Littleton at backer so the team can focus on offensive weapons.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 07:29 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the Bengals go with Burrow, then they should pick 3 OL within the next 5 picks. They will not bring in a top tier OL. It has to be via the draft. My hope is that the Bengals bring in Littleton at backer so the team can focus on offensive weapons.

We absolutely need to add some more pieces to the OL, but Idk if we should go too crazy with focusing on one position. This team has a lot of needs.

Even if we bring AJ back I think WR is an absolute must in the first few rounds. There’s a lot of good ones, and AJ and Ross are both injury prone.

I want a dominant OL as much as anyone, but if AJ, Ross, and Tate are all hurt the prospect of Alex Erickson being Joe Burrow’s second best WR scares me...

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-05-2020, 07:29 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: If the Bengals go with Burrow, then they should pick 3 OL within the next 5 picks.  They will not bring in a top tier OL.  It has to be via the draft.  My hope is that the Bengals bring in Littleton at backer so the team can focus on offensive weapons.

Would love to see Littleton and at least a top notch guard in free agency.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-05-2020, 09:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We absolutely need to add some more pieces to the OL, but Idk if we should go too crazy with focusing on one position. This team has a lot of needs.

Even if we bring AJ back I think WR is an absolute must in the first few rounds. There’s a lot of good ones, and AJ and Ross are both injury prone.

I want a dominant OL as much as anyone, but if AJ, Ross, and Tate are all hurt the prospect of Alex Erickson being Joe Burrow’s second best WR scares me...

Oh I fully agree

OL, LB, and WR are the top 3 needs and you can easily make a case it's a 3 way tie. Will AJ even be here ? Ross and Eifert are both injury prone and Tate still has a little question mark.

I wouldn't mind getting a vet WR. But they have to quit nickel and diming the line. Cut/trade the deadwood and get serious.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Imo the entire o line can be replaced. Trey is fine, jonah hasnt had a snap and Jordan is in his 2nd year. Hoping jordan improves.

And Price is a complete bust. Cut him

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-05-2020, 10:10 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Imo the entire o line can be replaced. Trey is fine, jonah hasnt had a snap and Jordan is in his 2nd year. Hoping jordan improves.

And Price is a complete bust. Cut him

I thought Price was at least gonna be a good one. Thus far he's been a total bust. I mean not even practice squad worthy. If it was me if he's not totally tearing it up in camp/preseason I'd give serious consideration to moving on to hell with his draft status ! We've got to get better and fast.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

If I'm not mistaken, the line graded 30th last season, and 31st the year before. It's honestly hard to evaluate anyone on offense, or even the coaching with line play that horrendous.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-05-2020, 10:10 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Imo the entire o line can be replaced. Trey is fine, jonah hasnt had a snap and Jordan is in his 2nd year. Hoping jordan improves.

And Price is a complete bust. Cut him

You would pay more for dead cap cutting him than you would keeping him and not playing him. It would be silly to cut him this year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

You'd be surprised how good even average skill players will look when your plays have time to develop.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-05-2020, 10:10 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Imo the entire o line can be replaced. Trey is fine, jonah hasnt had a snap and Jordan is in his 2nd year. Hoping jordan improves.

And Price is a complete bust. Cut him

Why would you replace Hopkins?

[*ochocincos*]

My thoughts:

- Fred Johnson proved he's worth keeping as a depth OT.

- If Cordy Glenn does indeed stay, he deserves to start on this OL given he was the best OL on the team last year.

- Hart and Miller started because there was no one better on the team to start in their places (for most of the year), but they really should be moved to the bench in an ideal world.

- Neither Price nor Jordan proved they deserve to start. Both were bad in 2019 and should be relegated to the bench for 2020. It would help both of them tremendously to get a year to develop without being pushed into a starting role.

- Given we haven't seen Jonah Williams play in the NFL yet, we can only go off what he did at Alabama, and that was dominate. I still believe he will become a stout starter at either OT position or LG.

- The best OL without any new additions, I believe, is a combo of Williams, Glenn, Hopkins, Miller, and a toss-up between Fred Johnson and Hart. They still would be in the bottom half of the league, but I don't think it'd be worst in the league.

- Please stick to the directional blocking that had success under Pollack in 2018 and in the second half of last year with Turner.

- It would really help the Bengals to add one OT and OG in the offseason, especially if Glenn is cut to free up nearly $10 mill in cap.