Draft illusion and reality

[BrownAssClown]

The Bills put together a pretty good team one time. They won the AFC four years in a row, then lost all four Superbowl's in a row. I wonder what they're more remembered for. I like the Ricky Bobby way of looking at things," If ya ain't first your last." The goal is to win championships, not to get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2020, 06:25 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote:  I like the Ricky Bobby way of looking at things," If ya ain't first your last." 

How does it feel to be last in everything you have ever done in your entire life?

Hate to break this to you but Ricky Bobby was not a real person.  He was created just to say stupid things.

[BrownAssClown]

(02-11-2020, 06:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How does it feel to be last in everything you have ever done in your entire life?

Hate to break this to you but Ricky Bobby was not a real person.  He was created just to say stupid things.

First, you don't know many successes and failures I've had in my life. How many times I finished first in anything, as a matter of fact, you don't know me at all.  As far as Ricky Bobby goes, I understand he's a fictional character from a silly Hollywood movie, yet the quote from that film rings true for a lot of people. Finishing second only means your the first loser. Next time a Steeler fan pipes up and proclaims "One for the thumb +One!!" You shout right back and say "Hey! We beat the Oilers back in January '91 in a Wild Card game for the ages!!!"

[BengalFanInNJ]

(02-11-2020, 12:47 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That's fine.

So tell me, can the layman name 5 guys from the Cardinals team of 2015 that made the NFC Championship game?

I'll wait

EDIT* Not at all insinuating that you're a layman/casual NFL fan, ocho.

I can name 5 offensive linemen......LT, LG, C, RG RT. 

[Stick357]

Hobson echos how the bengals view themselves, which sucks because everything he listed in his article pointed to them being mediocre at best lol. That being said, I like the narrative he alluded to several times about the cardinals having a lower winning percentage compared to the bengals, it was clearly sticking it to CP9. Palmer is an idiot holding the cardinals up as some beacon of excellence. That org is worse than the bengals in how they are run and the numbers back it up. Palmers continues to expose himself as bitter towards the bengals who improved, vastly, upon his departure ...

[sandwedge]

(02-11-2020, 03:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I meant it more like we are beyond thankful Dalton, Marvin and Hue are gone but god forbid the media forget our glorious run with them 9 years ago.

Does anyone care to ask Burrow himself why he was rooting for the Saints while his hometown team was on such an amazing streak?

It's been said before, that Burrow is a huge fan of Brees. So naturally he likes the Saints

[grampahol]

They're all wrong. The entire world will end before draft day when aliens land on earth and eat every living thing on the planet and steal every last drop of water leaving the planet barren, dry and empty...except for Joe Burrow who will be alone on earth asking one question. "Why don't the bengals pick me number one overall?" and spend the rest of his days saying over and over.."Damned aliens! I coulda been really rich!"

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2020, 01:44 AM)sandwedge Wrote: It's been said before, that Burrow is a huge fan of Brees. So naturally he likes the Saints

I'm aware of that, I'm just pointing that out because some folks wonder why our 5 seasons of one n dones don't get more respect. 

Ask Burrow why watching the Saints win the SB and playoff games and go 7-9 three years in a row was better than 5 straight 12th place finishes. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

The Hobspin article could have been more succinctly expressed with "you don't live in Cleveland... you live in Cincinnati"

RIP Sam.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2020, 05:28 PM)kevin Wrote: I'm looking past Joe.  We draft Top of 2 at around 33 and I consider that an extra Round 1.  Then Top of 3 at around 65 and I consider that an extra round 2.   So besides getting Joe, I'll consider this draft a flop if we don't get a Top Talent Offensive Tackle to bookend with Jonah Williams, and also a Top Talent 4-3 Linebacker who makes plays sideline to sideline, solid against run and the pass.  I expect all 3 to be able to be Starters on Opening Day in September.  They will make rookie mistakes, but we need these 3 as Starters right away, because Marvin & Mike Brown left the cupboard pretty bare for Zac coming in.  That is the reality.  We better come away with 3 TOP Picks considering drafting #1 each round. If not, the rebuild becomes just more illusion. 

Unless they trade back from there to later in the 2nd round and pick up an extra 3rd round pick because they need more picks 

[shanebo]

(02-11-2020, 05:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it would only help ease all the fans frustrations. Just glazing over the truth just makes it more frustrating.

No wonder we have a lot of negative fans. This fluff breeds them.

This is a great point.  I live in the Philly area and every day some sports talk radio host is bashing one of the local teams for a random action (or inaction), decision, move, etc.  My only real connection for Bengals news is the national media, this board, and Hobson.  Would be nice to see him recognize the team's shortcomings and use his influence -- such that it is -- to push for change.  E.g., instead of insisting that we are active in free agency, or reminding us of how signing multiple free agents didn't win a championship for the Redskins/Eagles/Giants 10 years ago, or how Antonio Bryant crashed and burned, just freaking acknowledge that (a) we need upgrades at certain positions to field a competitive football team and (b) if we can't get those upgrades in the draft we need to look at FAs! 

[bengals67]

Here is my perspective on Bengals v other teams.

People in Cincinnati are some of the best and most loyal people in the world. There are so many great communities to make of a larger and wonderful community with its own unique and great culture and values.

It is a perfect place for a rabid and completely loyal fan base.

So who has worse attendance in the last few years than Bengals and why is that so?

What NFL team has a worse relationship with their community?

What team has less resources in scouting than Bengals, a team that builds through the draft?

What team has spent less money on outside free agents?

Who else doesn't have an indoor practice facility?

How long since a playoff win?

How many consecutive losses to Steelers?

Like someone else has said, when has Mike Brown demonstrated that he is "all in" in trying to win the Super Bowl ?

They will be gone for greener pastures and more money to the owners as soon as the lease is over unless they get incredibly lucky with Burrow who turns into a player who can carry a mediocre to poor franchise on his back.

And if that happens, they may still leave for a new state of the art stadium that they are never going to get again from the Hamilton County taxpayers.

[*bengalfan74*]

What NFL team has a worse relationship with their community? I'd say we're very one of the worst

What team has less resources in scouting than Bengals, a team that builds through the draft? Again we're near the bottom

What team has spent less money on outside free agents? The Packers use very little FA and the Steelers aren't normally big players, they do however pick some shots here and there. I'm sure there are others but again we're in the bottom 1/4 of the league I'm sure

Who else doesn't have an indoor practice facility? There's perhaps 1 or 2 ? and they probably borrow a college facility ? But we're certainly in the stone ages still

How long since a playoff win? Closing in on 3 decades now, giant camcorders were cutting edge technology

How many consecutive losses to Steelers? Over the last 13 games, playoffs included, we have one win, early 2015

Like someone else has said, when has Mike Brown demonstrated that he is "all in" in trying to win the Super Bowl ? NEVER

This offseason is Mike Browns proving ground as far as myself and many others are concerned, I'm quite sure.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2020, 08:06 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: First, you don't know many successes and failures I've had in my life.

I know you have never been number 1 at anything. So based on your logic you, and everyone in your family, is a loser.  If I am wrong then prove it.

The people who talk the loudest about how nothing but the best is good enough for them are generally very mediocre people.  They just talk like that to try and make themselves sound superior to other people in the same position as them. 

[bengals67]

(02-12-2020, 12:41 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: What NFL team has a worse relationship with their community? I'd say we're very one of the worst

What team has less resources in scouting than Bengals, a team that builds through the draft? Again we're near the bottom

What team has spent less money on outside free agents? The Packers use very little FA and the Steelers aren't normally big players, they do however pick some shots here and there. I'm sure there are others but again we're in the bottom 1/4 of the league I'm sure

Who else doesn't have an indoor practice facility? There's perhaps 1 or 2 ? and they probably borrow a college facility ? But we're certainly in the stone ages still

How long since a playoff win? Closing in on 3 decades now, giant camcorders were cutting edge technology

How many consecutive losses to Steelers? Over the last 13 games, playoffs included, we have one win, early 2015

Like someone else has said, when has Mike Brown demonstrated that he is "all in" in trying to win the Super Bowl ? NEVER

This offseason is Mike Browns proving ground as far as myself and many others are concerned, I'm quite sure.

Thank you for this.

Packers signed ( or maybe traded for one) two top tier defensive free agents this year and made NFC championship. 

But I think you are generally right about Packers and Steelers.

 I think Steelers have not signed free agents because they are always pushing the envelope on their cap space.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-12-2020, 11:43 AM)shanebo Wrote: This is a great point.  I live in the Philly area and every day some sports talk radio host is bashing one of the local teams for a random action (or inaction), decision, move, etc.  My only real connection for Bengals news is the national media, this board, and Hobson.  Would be nice to see him recognize the team's shortcomings and use his influence -- such that it is -- to push for change.  E.g., instead of insisting that we are active in free agency, or reminding us of how signing multiple free agents didn't win a championship for the Redskins/Eagles/Giants 10 years ago, or how Antonio Bryant crashed and burned, just freaking acknowledge that (a) we need upgrades at certain positions to field a competitive football team and (b) if we can't get those upgrades in the draft we need to look at FAs! 

Feel the exact same way. Just the basics would be nice. Hobspin fluff doesn't help anyone, we all know better.

[jj22]

(02-12-2020, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know you have never been number 1 at anything.

Like he said you don't know him and acting like you do is lame. Get it together. No one is better than anyone  else around here.

[bengals1969]

(02-12-2020, 01:29 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Thank you for this.

Packers signed ( or maybe traded for one) two top tier defensive free agents this year and made NFC championship. 

But I think you are generally right about Packers and Steelers.

 I think Steelers have not signed free agents because they are always pushing the envelope on their cap space.

The NFL is built on 12% turnover via draft every season.  So in about 4 years 50% of the team is new with young players.  Free agency should  only be used by teams that make mistakes in the draft.  But those mistakes won't be off the team till about 4 to 5 years after a player was drafted which corresponds with rookie contract length.  So that means the team could also draft their replacement instead of going with a FA. 
Teams that have to dip into the FA well every year and spend significant cash aren't doing it right.

Now trades are awhole other thing, and a team that drafts well should also be ready traders.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-12-2020, 04:04 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: The NFL is built on 12% turnover via draft every season.  So in about 4 years 50% of the team is new with young players.  Free agency should  only be used by teams that make mistakes in the draft.  But those mistakes won't be off the team till about 4 to 5 years after a player was drafted which corresponds with rookie contract length.  So that means the team could also draft their replacement instead of going with a FA. 
Teams that have to dip into the FA well every year and spend significant cash aren't doing it right.

Now trades are awhole other thing, and a team that drafts well should also be ready traders.

I absolutely agree the draft has to be the core of your team. Myself and many others, the majority of posters on here and the mother ship have stated this many times. 

But a bunch of the teams that "are doing it right" regularly use free agency to replace draft misses when they're close. Granted they're not always successful, but sometimes they are.

Almost nobody wants us to be the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, even Browns to a degree that often try to "buy teams". That rarely to never works. The key is knowing when to pull the trigger and who on.

[bengals1969]

(02-12-2020, 04:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I absolutely agree the draft has to be the core of your team. Myself and many others, the majority of posters on here and the mother ship have stated this many times. 

But a bunch of the teams that "are doing it right" regularly use free agency to replace draft misses when they're close. Granted they're not always successful, but sometimes they are.

Almost nobody wants us to be the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, even Browns to a degree that often try to "buy teams". That rarely to never works. The key is knowing when to pull the trigger and who on.

The vibe here is pretty strong for a big splash in FA or else the season is lost.  Maybe.