Tua or Burrow ?

[Hammerstripes]

Honestly I would take either one if they were both completely healthy.

For those that say Tua is deadly accurate, so is Burrow - even moreso.

The only thing that makes me shy away from Tua is that he has had some really bad games in big moments. The SEC title game against Georgia going 10-25 and while he played ok against LSU this year, he was 21-40 - with 3 legitimate 1st round NFL WRs.

[*psychdoctor*]

Tua and his girlie agent can suck it.

Head-to-head matchup was mitigated by Tua's ankle surgery but still, he looked out of sorts in the LSU-Alabama game. Tua has an elite arm but broken hips recovery is an unknown, and Bo Jackson had similar injury. The difference being he suffered avascular Necrosis (AVN) and Tua did not (as far as we can tell). Hip injuries can linger in terms of arthritic pain and stiffness.

No athlete is quite the same as major injuries, even if they have optimal recovery. They learn to adapt and can still perform but they are not the same athlete compared to pre-injury.

Burrow does not have an elite arm but has plus arm strength. He does however, have elite accuracy and his decision making including intangibles are next level, all-pro quality.

Dalton, Tua, Herbert are great athletes but none of them inspire other players to be their best like Rogers, Manning, Brady, and yes, Burrow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2020, 01:03 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Tua DOES NOT have a weaker arm!!! There are four of you that better start praying to your God right now, that Burrow isn't a bust or injured in ANY way! ( Busted thumb!!) No excuses for you folks. NONE!! No room for anything less than playoffs in his first year. NOTHING!!! NOTHING , less will be acceptable.

And, I am going to remind all four of you about it EVERY FN WEEK!!  Every week!!!  
That is just exactly how much BS and hype that you four have been slinging.

One of you also said that Burrow was the surest pick in this draft. He is not!! That would be Chase Young.

It's a win, win for me either way. Burrow wins, the Bengals win. Burrow loses and I'm going to call each if you out in a separate thread each week.

Calm down Coach, damn.  

Been watching Tua try and throw deep balls like he did in the LSU game and he tried to throw it 50 yards using everything 
he had, he doesn't have a weak arm, just weaker than Burrow from what I have seen. Neither have cannons. Also if MB and
the FO don't put players around Burrow to succeed you won't be able to call anyone out that knows it might not matter who
the QB is. The O-line needs improved and we need to have healthy weapons for any rookie QB, not just Burrow.

Chase Young is not the surest pick in the Draft either, at least not for us. He is a damn fine player but for us it is Burrow IMO.

(02-14-2020, 11:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: Burrow's tape from this year is better than any single season worth of tape Tua can put together. I am not alone in this take as I have heard it publicly from some guys but also privately from one of the Scouts I occasionally talk to. The other piece of this is that while his hip may be doing well, he is now on his 3rd relatively major injury in only 24 starts i.e a season and a half in the NFL. I think Tua could potentially be Sam Bradford, a great college QB who in the NFL shows flashes but constantly being beat up will never let him achieve his potential.

(02-14-2020, 11:35 AM)Au165 Wrote: Ron Jaworski also said he'd take Nick Foles over Russell Wilson and that Collin Kapernick could be the greatest QB of all time...that said it's an inexact science, my point though was the narrative that Tua was "the guy" if healthy wasn't universally held at all as some have claimed around here for a while. 

The other thing that is very real in scouting, when guys make bold statements early in a guys career they do not like to come off of them. It's why a guy like Christian Hackenburg gets drafted in the 2nd round, because when you set up on the hill that a guy is "elite" early on they'd rather die on that hill than be open to any other belief. Many stated Tua was a can't miss prospect after the NCG his freshman year similar to Lawrence. Guys build that narrative and begin to refuse to second guess it so at this point they just stay with it. Tua is a really good prospect but to some people Burrow could throw for 100% completion percentage and 100 TD's to no INTs and Tua was always going to be "their guy".

Great stuff Au165.

[reuben.ahmed]

If Tua was never injured the question would be much tougher. Burrow still could be a one hit wonder. Recency bias.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-14-2020, 01:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Trolling other members is against the CoC.

Grow up.

We agree about many things. We even agree about Burrow to an extent. Again, I never quoted you, yet there you were. Your " I'm telling the principal" attitude, gives me all of the information that I need about you going forward. 

(02-14-2020, 07:15 AM)Synric Wrote: Get this kid some crayons! He has some angry "I told you so" letters to write!

When posts are accurate, I give them Rep. When they are pure hype and opinion, I discount them. This "kid" is almost 50, but I can still color within the lines.

(02-14-2020, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Calm down Coach, damn.  

Been watching Tua try and throw deep balls like he did in the LSU game and he tried to throw it 50 yards using everything 
he had, he doesn't have a weak arm, just weaker than Burrow from what I have seen. Neither have cannons. Also if MB and
the FO don't put players around Burrow to succeed you won't be able to call anyone out that knows it might not matter who
the QB is. The O-line needs improved and we need to have healthy weapons for any rookie QB, not just Burrow.

Chase Young is not the surest pick in the Draft either, at least not for us. He is a damn fine player but for us it is Burrow IMO.



Great stuff Au165.

Tua has a stronger arm. Chase Young is the best prospect in this draft. Burrow seems to be the best option for the Bengals. Hope so! Good post Nate!

[Bengalitis]

With Jonah, AJ injured all year, i'll draft anyone who is not in stitches.

[Bengalholic]

(02-19-2020, 08:35 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: We agree about many things. We even agree about Burrow to an extent. Again, I never quoted you, yet there you were. Your " I'm telling the principal" attitude, gives me all of the information that I need about you going forward. 
When posts are accurate, I give them Rep. When they are pure hype and opinion, I discount them. This "kid" is almost 50, but I can still color within the lines.

Tua has a stronger arm. Chase Young is the best prospect in this draft. Burrow seems to be the best option for the Bengals. Hope so! Good post Nate!

I agree that Tua has the stronger arm if both guys are throwing from a clean pocket and have time to set their feet and launch it. However...in every other situation, I honestly believe Burrow has the better arm, at least from everything I've seen. 

[coachmcneil71]

(02-19-2020, 09:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that Tua has the stronger arm if both guys are throwing from a clean pocket and have time to set their feet and launch it. However...in every other situation, I honestly believe Burrow has the better arm, at least from everything I've seen. 

You're not wrong, Holic. Arm strength is great, but oftentimes overrated, especially in the NFL. Timing, accuracy,  foresight, and touch are essential to a top tier NFL QB. Joe has all of those things. Now, it's great to have a guy with elite arm strength, and the other superlatives that I just mentioned, but they rarely come in the same package.

Watch the throw Tua makes late in the 4th against LSU to Devonta Smith. From the far hash to the complete opposite boundary. There were no other defenders behind that throw. Even the safety was burnt.
That takes a very strong arm to make that throw. Ts, I'm not quite sure that Tua has the touch, or anticipation that Joe has.
Joe seems to be the right pick in this situation. I hope he is, comes in, and kicks ass! He needs weapons and blocking. He needs a scheme that works for him. Not sure that ZT provides it. 

Seems to me that JB thrived in the Saints scheme. The Saints have been a perrinial top scoring team in the league. Let's hope that the " playcaller" can adjust some of his calls towards that type of system?? 

These coaches are suspect, but with a solid draft the team shouldn't be. I want AJ and Mixon both back. They would both be beasts in Joe Brady's system. Let's hope our FO and coaches realize the same. Get Eiffert back on the cheap, and we should be tough to stop offensively.
I've been watching this series on Prime called All or Nothing, it's pretty damn good. Definitely worth a watch or two. Jerry Jones is the worst...lol.. Definitely, wants to be the HC in Dallas.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-19-2020, 08:35 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: We agree about many things. We even agree about Burrow to an extent. Again, I never quoted you, yet there you were. Your " I'm telling the principal" attitude, gives me all of the information that I need about you going forward. 
When posts are accurate, I give them Rep. When they are pure hype and opinion, I discount them. This "kid" is almost 50, but I can still color within the lines.

Tua has a stronger arm. Chase Young is the best prospect in this draft. Burrow seems to be the best option for the Bengals. Hope so! Good post Nate!

You never quoted me? I’m one of the people you literally just threatened to troll if Burrow doesn’t work out...

Your childish posts and profile pic tell me everything I need to know about you. Have a good one, coach.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-20-2020, 12:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You never quoted me? I’m one of the people you literally just threatened to troll if Burrow doesn’t work out...

Your childish posts and profile pic tell me everything I need to know about you. Have a good one, coach.

No man, I never called you out by name. You placed that label upon yourself. As I said, we actually agree on several issues "Bengal". We even agree on Burrow, to an extent. 
Touche, my apologies to you for the persnickety comment. As a whole I think we agree on many things. I'm willing to extend the olive branch here. Let's hope JB is all that you and other's hope that he is. If so, I'm jumping for joy.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

playing for Alabama it's sunshine and lollipops you have elite NFL talent all over the place. At LSU your getting players Alabama doesnt want.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-20-2020, 12:50 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: No man, I never called you out by name. You placed that label upon yourself. As I said, we actually agree on several issues "Bengal". We even agree on Burrow, to an extent. 
Touche, my apologies to you for the persnickety comment. As a whole I think we agree on many things. I'm willing to extend the olive branch here. Let's hope JB is all that you and other's hope that he is. If so, I'm jumping for joy.

Fair enough. My bad for getting a little testy as well. Happy to let it go.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-19-2020, 08:35 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Tua has a stronger arm. Chase Young is the best prospect in this draft. Burrow seems to be the best option for the Bengals. Hope so! Good post Nate!

Not from what I have been watching but hey, to each his own.

I see Tua struggling to throw the ball 50 yards, at the same time I have seen Burrow step into a 50 yarder without struggling...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2020, 02:06 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: playing for Alabama it's sunshine and lollipops you have elite NFL talent all over the place. At LSU your getting players Alabama doesnt want.

Truth.

[blt4584]

(02-20-2020, 02:06 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: playing for Alabama it's sunshine and lollipops you have elite NFL talent all over the place. At LSU your getting players Alabama doesnt want.

That's really not true at all. Most of the players from one team had offers from the other team. Alabama had just been doing a better job of coaching them until Orgeron was able to fix some of the messes Les Miles left behind.

[Benton]

(02-19-2020, 09:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that Tua has the stronger arm if both guys are throwing from a clean pocket and have time to set their feet and launch it. However...in every other situation, I honestly believe Burrow has the better arm, at least from everything I've seen. 

And with the hip injury, my concern on tua is he's only going to be able to play for a team that can put him on an island.

[XenoMorph]

(02-20-2020, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not from what I have been watching but hey, to each his own.

I see Tua struggling to throw the ball 50 yards, at the same time I have seen Burrow step into a 50 yarder without struggling...

but are they Rainbows or tightropes?

[Nati#1]

I say Tua, I think he is a better pure passer than Burrow. More talented all stats aside. I hope we take Tua and get some extra picks.

[Nati#1]

(02-20-2020, 02:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not from what I have been watching but hey, to each his own.

I see Tua struggling to throw the ball 50 yards, at the same time I have seen Burrow step into a 50 yarder without struggling...

I see Tua hitting guys in stride a lot on the deep ball.. no rainbows all put on the money.

[Nati#1]

I watched the lsu alabama highlight and I seen Burrow throw the ball over the receivers head multiple times. I think Tua and Burrow both have flaws.. honestly I would take Tua because that means more picks for us if someone trades us for the 1st pick.