Patriots targeting AJ Green

[BrownAssClown]

I guess we'll find out soon enough what the Bengals plans for AJ are, they have from February 25th to March 10th to franchise him.

[Bengalitis]

AJ, Andy & Marvin just couldn't get it done in 10 yrs (a playoff win). They..... just...... couldn't get it....... done.

[*Synric*]

I get people are scared to resign AJ Green but its probably the smart thing to do...

There is a reason Green is a hot Free Agent candidate is because of who he is on the field. The Bengals need playmakers at WR and letting AJ walk would force them to take one higher in the draft neglecting playmakers on defense. It would also give a young QB a reliable option on the outside, with Boyd in the slot, and Mixon at running back.

Would AJ be a Gamble? Yes. But because of who he is and what he can do it's a gamble I myself would take and I hope they do...but hopefully leave theirselves an out.

[samhain]

(02-16-2020, 11:27 PM)Synric Wrote: I get people are scared to resign AJ Green but its probably the smart thing to do...

There is a reason Green is a hot Free Agent candidate is because of who he is on the field. The Bengals need playmakers at WR and letting AJ walk would force them to take one higher in the draft neglecting playmakers on defense. It would also give a young QB a reliable option on the outside, with Boyd in the slot, and Mixon at running back.

Would AJ be a Gamble? Yes. But because of who he is and what he can do it's a gamble I myself would take and I hope they do...but hopefully leave theirselves an out.

If a deal to the club's liking can't get done, then the transition tag is an absolute must.  If other teams are willing to shell out for him, then make them give their pound of flesh.  That tactic should clarify how other teams value him in fairly short order.  The "out" as you say would be the pick the Bengals receive at the team that signs him's expense.

It would be brutal to let him get away for nothing and watch him have a few more great years. it would also be pretty shitty to pony up around 20 mil per for 3 years for a hood ornament that can't get on the field for 12 games a season.

If he's as good to go as he insinuates, he should have shown it. Almost immediately after the season ended, he was miraculously cleared to begin working again. It's odd. All he had to do was play a game or two at the end of the year at a high level to get a big contract. Now we just have no idea what he can do. He hasn't been what he wants to be compensated as since Halloween week of 2018.

If he gets a big extension and underperforms or can't stay healthy, he'll become the most hated player on this team. His legacy will be rendered to a pile of dog turds. The Bengals will probably lose a lot of games and he will collect a shitload of money while they do it. I hope this does not happen, for the sake of everyone involved. Tag him, see if anyone bites, sign him to a deal that reflects the market if they don't. Either way, they need to prepare for a near future without him.

[samhain]

(02-15-2020, 09:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Seems that way. I see a lot of people wanting us to go completely OL and defense in the draft.

Ideally, I'd like to see the draft a 2nd round WR to go with Burrow, then OL in 3.  The team seems to want AJ, Burrow, and Defense for 2,3, and 4. I'd get defensive help in FA and build the offense with both OL and WR in the draft to go with the new QB.

[*Synric*]

(02-17-2020, 04:39 AM)samhain Wrote: If a deal to the club's liking can't get done, then the transition tag is an absolute must.  If other teams are willing to shell out for him, then make them give their pound of flesh.  That tactic should clarify how other teams value him in fairly short order.  The "out" as you say would be the pick the Bengals receive at the team that signs him's expense.  

You don't get a draft pick from the Transition Tag that is from the non-exclusive Franchise Tag which is the one most commonly used.

[Catmandude123]

Franchising him and transitioning him basically cost the same money but franchising him guarantees you keep him for 2020. The only advantage I could see is if another team offered him a long term contract that was a good deal for the team in the later years of the contract. If you want to keep him franchise him. I guess we will know their plans in the next couple of weeks.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-14-2020, 03:43 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: get Burrow a younger WR that will be around and hopefully on the field for the majority of his career.

Absolutely this.
You can't trust AJ Green at this point to remain healthy, so he should not be the focal point of the offense.
Plus, he probably doesn't have more than 2-3 years left given his injuries.

Use the money saved from AJ (and hopefully Dalton) and go get 1-2 cornerstone pieces who will be building blocks of the new core.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(02-14-2020, 09:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd let AJ walk. We'll get a nice compensatory pick for him, and we can use that money to improve the team elsewhere.

Then draft a long-term replacement.

We wouldn't get the compensatory pick until 2021 and it would be towards the end of the third round.

The last five second (i.e. extra) 3rd round picks the Bengals have had: Malik Jefferson, Paul Dawson, Brandon Thompson, Brandon Ghee, Chase Coffman.

I'd rather roll the dice on AJ's fitness than on a late 3rd round pick in 2021.

(02-15-2020, 01:51 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agreed tagging Green for a year could hurt us long term. Green can just walk at the end of this year and then we’re back at square one at WR. Tagging a 32 year at 18 million could prevent us from signing a young lineman or linebacker that could be a young building block for the future. This teams biggest issue is they have no long term plan. They should be rebuilding around Burrow with young talent because this roster has a ton of holes that can’t be addressed in a single offseason.

If your argument is that you can't address all the holes in a single off-season (and I'd agree), why would it hurt the Bengals long term if they spend that money in free agency in 2021 instead of 2020?

If we tag AJ and he's a non-factor, you then don't re-sign him next year then you just use that salary in free agency next year rather than this year. But if he's healthy he makes life so much easier for the rookie QB, the rest of the receiver room.

And there is still room to spend in free agency this year if you tag AJ - trading Dalton frees up $17m, trading/cutting Glenn saves $9.5m.

(02-16-2020, 05:55 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I dont see why people are so afraid of losing Green. It's not like hes a young, HEALTHY WR. Green has been one of the best receivers in the league for most of the years hes been healthy. Hes just not healthy anymore. Hes had a nagging toe injury since 2014. Hes been off the field a ton since 2016. Let's face it, Green is out of his prime and hes injury prone. If we can get a good deal for him I'm all for trading him

I think people are afraid of losing Green because they've seen what it's like without him.

Imagine if AJ Green is let go and then Tyler Boyd turns his ankle before the opener. Rookie Joe Burrow would be throwing to Alex Erickson, Auden Tate, John Ross, CJ Uzomah, Drew Sample and a rookie - in which case good luck Joe!

I know he's far from a sure thing health wise but I'd still look to re-sign AJ and draft a receiver this year. Maybe the rookie receiver contributes meaningfully this year (although recent history with Boyd, Ross, Malone, Sanu, Marvin Jones etc suggests they probably won't until at least year 2 or 3) but we'll need someone for next year as this is Ross' last year and I don't see us picking up his 5th year option. I wouldn't even be opposed to double dipping at receiver if we can collect some more picks in trades.

[Brownshoe]

(02-16-2020, 07:37 PM)jason Wrote: Take a peek at their record with and without him in the lineup... That's why.

Yeah, because the team wasn't trending downward even when he was on the field.

[*jason*]

(02-17-2020, 01:36 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, because the team wasn't trending downward even when he was on the field.

There's literally nobody else on the roster that has that sort of win/ loss disparity when they aren't on the field.

Except maybe Ryan Finley... I'd project 0 - and whatever as long as he's ON the field.

[Brownshoe]

(02-17-2020, 01:42 PM)jason Wrote: There's literally nobody else on the roster that has that sort of win/ loss disparity when they aren't on the field.

Except maybe Ryan Finley... I'd project 0 - and whatever as long as he's ON the field.

Our defense and OL has been horrible the last couple of years. They've never been that bad. The first halfish part of the season last year we had a historically bad defense and run game. The coaching was horrible too. It wasn't all just Green not being on the field. There was a lot more happening than just that, but people only want to focus on that. 

[Shake n Blake]

(02-16-2020, 09:34 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Because the offense has keyed off him playing. When he is injured as he often has been the past few years, you get an offense like what we have seen, with coaches unable to create an effective scheme when he isn't.

That's what teams do with a skill player who could be top 5 or so in the league. 

If this team drafts and develops WR depth, losing AJ isnt THAT bad. If Ross would stay healthy, we wouldn't be worrying about lossing AJ to FA.

Instead, we have this situation where AJ is the entire offense and losing him is basically catastrophic. 

Kinda reminds me of how LeBron's teams always have a bad record without him. Some of those teams had a lot of talent. Kyrie and Kevin Love...or Anthony Davis, Kuzma, Danny Green, etc. That said, the offense always runs through LeBron when he's on a team, so when he gets hurt, it seems his teams struggle to adapt to the sudden change on offense.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-17-2020, 02:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Kinda reminds me of how LeBron's teams always have a bad record without him. Some of those teams had a lot of talent. Kyrie and Kevin Love...or Anthony Davis, Kuzma, Danny Green, etc. That said, the offense always runs through LeBron when he's on a team, so when he gets hurt, it seems his teams struggle to adapt to the sudden change on offense.

Having a superstar player on your team almost stunts the growth of the rest of the players. Catches and plays are easier to make when you are singled up on the 2nd or 3rd best corner playing 10 yards off. They had to bracket AJ on every play. I get it, but without him the offense is list and struggles to find itself, when they should be a more run focused team when AJ is out and  shifting the passing attack into something a bit different.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-17-2020, 12:57 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: We wouldn't get the compensatory pick until 2021 and it would be towards the end of the third round.

The last five second (i.e. extra) 3rd round picks the Bengals have had: Malik Jefferson, Paul Dawson, Brandon Thompson, Brandon Ghee, Chase Coffman.

I'd rather roll the dice on AJ's fitness than on a late 3rd round pick in 2021.

Well I was told that it would essentially be a 4th rounder. Players we've picked up in the 4th round over the last decade:

Geno Atkins
Clint Boling
Russell Bodine
Andrew Billings
Carl Lawson

We also have a lot of good 3rd round picks in that span:

Sam Hubbard
Nick Vigil
Shawn Williams
Mo Sanu
Jordan Shipley

These 3rd-4th rounders are why I said "we've taken some good players in that range". 

-----------------------

...and you have to consider the amount of money we're using to "roll the dice" on AJ. If he's sitting on IR, that's roughly $15 million wasted. $15 million that isn't being used elsewhere. It's a huge loss. The pick is just an extra to consider...and 2021 is literally next year. I'm sure we'd all be happy to have an extra 3rd when that rolls around.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-17-2020, 02:39 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Having a superstar player on your team almost stunts the growth of the rest of the players. Catches and plays are easier to make when you are singled up on the 2nd or 3rd best corner playing 10 yards off. They had to bracket AJ on every play. I get it, but without him the offense is list and struggles to find itself, when they should be a more run focused team when AJ is out and  shifting the passing attack into something a bit different.

So you think the offense becomes reliant or maybe even lazy due to the presence of AJ Green? I could see that. You don't have to innovate as much when you have a guy like that. I just know we're going to have to bite the bullet and move on at some point. He's bound to lose a step or two soon, he's missed essentially 24 straight games, he turns 32 before the season...

I'm just trying to separate nostalgia from reality. It's possible he's got some elite and healthy seasons still in the tank, but - at best - he's a huge risk.

If I'm the Bengals, I'm considering all options. I'm combing through upcoming free agents for a reasonably affordable guy who could fill the hole for us. I'm also considering the draft. If nothing else makes sense, sure...work on bringing AJ back, but it'd better be a deal that makes sense. We can't be giving this guy a 3 year/$50 million deal just because his name is "AJ Green" and he did great things a few years ago.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-15-2020, 01:51 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agreed tagging Green for a year could hurt us long term. Green can just walk at the end of this year and then we’re back at square one at WR. Tagging a 32 year at 18 million could prevent us from signing a young lineman or linebacker that could be a young building block for the future. This teams biggest issue is they have no long term plan. They should be rebuilding around Burrow with young talent because this roster has a ton  of holes that can’t be addressed in a single offseason.

I agree, either tag AJ and trade him or give him an incentive laden contract for 3 years. My vote is the latter as AJ is still 
great when healthy, he has fire and takes care of himself. I think he has 3 more years in him, think other teams will think 
the same and if we get a good offer I am all for trading him even if I want him to win a Superbowl here.

AJ might have his best season with an accurate QB who can throw him open even when he isn't.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(02-17-2020, 03:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you think the offense becomes reliant or maybe even lazy due to the presence of AJ Green? I could see that. You don't have to innovate as much when you have a guy like that. I just know we're going to have to bite the bullet and move on at some point. He's bound to lose a step or two soon, he's missed essentially 24 straight games, he turns 32 before the season...

I'm just trying to separate nostalgia from reality. It's possible he's got some elite and healthy seasons still in the tank, but - at best - he's a huge risk.

If I'm the Bengals, I'm considering all options. I'm combing through upcoming free agents for a reasonably affordable guy who could fill the hole for us. I'm also considering the draft. If nothing else makes sense, sure...work on bringing AJ back, but it'd better be a deal that makes sense. We can't be giving this guy a 3 year/$50 million deal just because his name is "AJ Green" and he did great things a few years ago.

AJ is my favorite player on this team. He does his job and doesnt really complain even when in things are bad. But I do not want them to dump money into a player who keeps having the same injury and missing tons of games regardless of how dynamic he may be.

Yes I absolutely think AJ is a crutch to the entire offense and coaches and I think it effects drafting too. I would rather lose him this year than any other year given the deep wr class is and would like for them to address LB in FA and not pidgeon hole themselves into drafting either murray or Queen at 2 and going BPA.theres a real chance they could get a special talent at another position at 33 if they choose to not force a potential reach.

I do really like Murray btw

[fredtoast]

(02-17-2020, 03:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:   AJ is still great when healthy,

You have no idea if this is true or not.

You can't sign a player based on wishes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-17-2020, 03:14 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: AJ is my favorite player on this team. He does his job and doesnt really complain even when in things are bad. But I do not want them to dump money into a player who keeps having the same injury and missing tons of games regardless of how dynamic he may be.

Yes I absolutely think AJ is a crutch to the entire offense and coaches and I think it effects drafting too. I would rather lose him this year than any other year given the deep wr class is and would like for them to address LB in FA and not pidgeon hole themselves into drafting either murray or Queen at 2 and going BPA.theres a real chance they could get a special talent at another position at 33 if they choose to not force a potential reach.

I do really like Murray btw

It is true that if there was a year to lose AJ it would be this year with this Draft class.

Plus if we got an early pick for him we could use it on a dynamic type of WR like Shenault or Mims and they could grow with Burrow.

Or like you said, use it on a good LB like Kenneth Murray. Could maybe get the Pats pick for AJ, use it on Murray and grab one of 
these two WR's at 33...