Dennard v Dre

[Catmandude123]

Kenny Moore just signed for four years for 36 million with the Colts which makes him the highest paid slot corner in the NFL. Dennard got 7.5 last year so he was compensated well for 2019.

[BrownAssClown]

Washington looking at Dennard?

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-free-agent-targets-darqueze-dennard

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-02-2020, 07:48 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I see:

- Dre
- WJax
- Dennard
- Phillips
- Draft Pick
- Tony McRae (mainly for teams)

Or, Dennard is not retained and they double dip.

I say better to retain Dennard, trade or cut Dre, save money for Will Jax, give Phillips a shot against a somewhat early pick.

And of course use FA to improve LB and OL in whatever way we can afford.

Just my opinion Truck, I find Kirkpatrick overpaid for what he brings to the table.

(03-02-2020, 07:58 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The increase in the Salary cap alone will pay for a new CB. I'd rather go that route. Keep Dennard and sign a top guy and cut Dre or let him finish out.

This.

(03-02-2020, 08:06 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good stuff...He got a bad rap because of his start (LIKE EVERY DAMN FIRST ROUND PICK THEY HAVE SEEMINGLY HAD).  He has been a very good player on a poor defense.  Shore up the LB corps, get a ball hawking, play-making safety in there with some wheels and this defense will improve tremendously.  

Yes, keep your good players, Dennard is a good player from what we have seen.

Fullrock just shown that he is probably the best Slot Corner in the NFL when healthy.

(03-02-2020, 08:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, as fans we would love them to revamp the entire team, in one fell swoop.  In reality, the Bengals just don't operate that way.  We might have a better shot at gauging which way the draft will go, once we see what they do in free agency.  But, think of it like this, as far as the draft goes.  We'ed like to see them get a stud DL as Carlos and Geno ain't getting any younger, we'ed like to see them get a day 1 starter quality LB, and we'ed also like to see them get a guy who's capable of playing now, or in a year or less at CB.

The way I see it, pick any two, because it's going to be tough to find all three of those in rounds 2-4 (even picking at the top of the round) with the number of draft picks that the Bengals currently have.  Assuming that number stays the same, if you want a LB, you hope that one of the good ones falls to 33.  At 65, you're probably going to have to choose between that DL and CB, depending upon how the board plays out.

If it's CB that you want at 65, I could see a few quality guys there.  Players like Bryce Hall of Va. and Jaylon Johnson of Utah, both boundary corners in body style with a ton of upside, and just minimal negative qualities.  I would add a guy like AJ Terrell, but his NFL comparison is Dre Kirkpatrick..

Yeah, I understand what you are saying Sunset about keeping Dre. I just find him overpaid and am hoping Will Jax, Dennard,
Phillips, McRae and a Draft pick or two can hold down the fort instead of overpaying for what Kirkpatrick offers. We have a new
Secondary coach besides Daronte Jones and I am hoping we can coach up some guys as well. 

Carlos has not shown much fall off to me and Geno I think will benefit with Billings continuing to improve.

I am thinking next year is the time to go for DL early. This year is time for WR/OL/LB/TE...

But as you say, it all depends on how FA pans out.

(03-02-2020, 08:56 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Dennard finally showed last year so we need to keep him. IMHO And add some talent in the draft.

Yep.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(03-02-2020, 06:58 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No we aren't.

You've had a hate crusade for Dre for years, sit down, shut up and deal with the fact he will be on this team.

Why must people be so bloody antagonistic and hateful?

Triggered a bit lol. Dre is not good and he’s paid as if he is. Dennard only plays slot cuz we have Dre and will jacks has nothing to do with whether or not he can and I like Phillips also so why not run with Will jacks Dennard Phillips and a draft pick. Btw I’m not shutting up and I write this to you as I stand so I’m not sitting and I will not be content and deal with the fact that Dre is still on this team as I expect him to be traded as well. Swing and a miss on ur part. Ohhhh wait was that too antagonistic lol. Toughen up butter cup.

[*jason*]

Dre Kirkpatrick does nothing but give 100% effort. He's a starting caliber CB, and is paid like one. When he sat behind Newman, Pacman, and Leon, he hustled his ass off on ST. He's made at the very least one big play that won a crucial game. He routinely runs guys down after other players have missed tackles. He's a vet, and I'd wager is one of the more respected guys in the locker room. It's a joke that his name is associated with Cordy Glenn. A few years ago everyone wanted Leon Hall to take a pay cut, and couldn't wait to get rid of Peko. Two or three years ago Dennard was the whipping boy. Remember how Justin Smith sucked here, and was a bust; only to be an All Pro in Frisco?

I like Phillips as much as the next guy... Super ***** small sample size though. William Jackson has been a one hit wonder, and Dennard has been blah for most of his career. It's ridiculous to me to move on from Dre this year, and create another hole to fill in the draft. I hate to break it to any of you, but the draft is the only way this team will be filling real needs this year. CB isn't a huge one.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Dre is not very good. The same people that think he’s above average are the ones claiming before the season started the Bengals would go to the playoffs. Should we post those threads to prove my point right before the season started last year.


Truck claimed all last off-season n camp Price would start over Hopkins and was the better of the two. Even after the season started he insisted as such. How that work out buddy.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(03-02-2020, 11:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I find Kirkpatrick overpaid for what he brings to the table.

I don't think the Kirkpatrick contract was a good one (and I blame Marvin for this - he was extended because they didn't know what they had with WJIII because they deemed bringing back Cedric Peerman from IR to help a 3-6-1 team on Special Teams more important than seeing what they had with their 1st round pick) but I'd question if they would be able to upgrade the position for that money, given that the Bengals need to overpay in free agency to attract good players to Cincinnati.

I'm not opposed to exploring alternatives but wouldn't we just end up replacing one overpaid player with another overpaid player and have some more dead cap?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-02-2020, 11:56 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Triggered a bit lol. Dre is not good and he’s paid as if he is. Dennard only plays slot cuz we have Dre and will jacks has nothing to do with whether or not he can and I like Phillips also so why not run with Will jacks Dennard Phillips and a draft pick. Btw I’m not shutting up and I write this to you as I stand so I’m not sitting and I will not be content and deal with the fact that Dre is still on this team as I expect him to be traded as well. Swing and a miss on ur part. Ohhhh wait was that too antagonistic lol. Toughen up butter cup.

Nope not triggered at all; you just talk shit constantly and it's beyond pedantic. Get a life.

(03-03-2020, 12:40 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Dre is not very good. The same people that think he’s above average are the ones claiming before the season started the Bengals would go to the playoffs. Should we post those threads to prove my point right before the season started last year.


Truck claimed all last off-season n camp Price would start over Hopkins and was the better of the two. Even after the season started he insisted as such. How that work out buddy.

He still had a better preseason; most of us saw it (against better competition as well), pressure numbers backed it up and PFF grade, IIRC, also backed it up.

Hey, happy to eat crow on it, as it clearly is better for the team long-term, but Hopkins had a worse preseason than Price last year, period.

[Catmandude123]

(03-02-2020, 11:56 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Triggered a bit lol.  Dre is not good and he’s paid as if he is.  Dennard only plays slot cuz we have Dre and will jacks has nothing to do with whether or not he can and I like Phillips also so why not run with Will jacks Dennard Phillips and a draft pick.  Btw I’m not shutting up and I write this to you as I stand so I’m not sitting and I will not be content and deal with the fact that Dre is still on this team as I expect him to be traded as well.  Swing and a miss on ur part.  Ohhhh wait was that too antagonistic lol.  Toughen up butter cup.

  Be careful man he will start another farewell tour.

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2020, 11:56 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Triggered a bit lol.  Dre is not good and he’s paid as if he is. 

(03-03-2020, 12:40 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Dre is not very good.  The same people that think he’s above average are the ones claiming before the season started the Bengals would go to the playoffs.  Should we post those threads to prove my point right before the season started last year.  

Yes, Socal, please post the threads where I said we would make the playoffs this year.

I don't have the numbers for 2019 yet, but I suspect they are not good.  However when mulitple DBs who have looked good in the past (Bates, Jackson, Kirkpatrick) all suddenly look bad at the same time I am duessing it had more to do with coaching and/or scheme than the players all forgeting how to perform.

I also don't have rankings on Kikrpatrick for '12 and '14 when he did not play enough snaps to qualify, but every other year in his career Dre has ranked in the top half of all starting CBs in Football Outsiders "passing yards per play".  And he has finished in the TOP TEN twice.

2018...29th
2017...31st
2016... 5th
2015...28th
2013...10th

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2020, 09:51 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I don't think the Kirkpatrick contract was a good one (and I blame Marvin for this - he was extended because they didn't know what they had with WJIII because they deemed bringing back Cedric Peerman from IR to help a 3-6-1 team on Special Teams more important than seeing what they had with their 1st round pick) but I'd question if they would be able to upgrade the position for that money, given that the Bengals need to overpay in free agency to attract good players to Cincinnati.

I'm not opposed to exploring alternatives but wouldn't we just end up replacing one overpaid player with another overpaid player and have some more dead cap?

It is possible, just stating my opinion. The tackling by Kirkpatrick has been embarrassing to say the least. I want Corners that
can tackle and cover, Dre doesn't do either great or even that good. I don't find Dre to be a terrible player, he tries hard but 
that isn't enough for what he gets paid IMO.

Agreed on the contract that it was not a good one and Marv handled the Will Jax/Peerman situation wrong.

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2020, 09:51 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote:  (and I blame Marvin for this - he was extended because they didn't know what they had with WJIII because they deemed bringing back Cedric Peerman from IR to help a 3-6-1 team on Special Teams more important than seeing what they had with their 1st round pick) 

(03-03-2020, 02:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree Marv handled the Will Jax/Peerman situation wrong.

Jackson was a rookie who missed the entire training camp.  You guys have no clue if he was even prepared to step in and play.  Once the season begins there are not a lot of practice reps for a rookie to learn the basics.  Regular season practice is more about game planning for a specific opponent

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2020, 04:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jackson was a rookie who missed the entire training camp.  You guys have no clue if he was even prepared to step in and play.  Once the season begins there are not a lot of practice reps for a rookie to learn the basics.  Regular season practice is more about game planning for a specific opponent

Well Peerman was cut after the season if I am not correct I apologize.

I remember Peerman not even playing well on ST's when he came back.

Nothing wrong with getting your 1st round pick's feet wet if he was ready to play and from everything I remember he was.

[samhain]

I don't have the hate for Dre K that many of my fellow haters seem to display. He's a solid to good player if he's healthy. He's also a boundary corner unlike Dennard, and I think that makes him more useful to the Bengals at this point. They key is how he recovers from being injured. Will it cause a significant decline? I have no idea. Age and injury are typically not a great combination for guys in the league as long as Dre.

I'd probably let Dennard walk if there's a decent chance that Dre recovers quickly. Darqueze will probably get close to or more than what Dre is going to make next year, so the money is a wash.

I'd still protect myself in the draft by adding one or two DBs for depth. I think corner at 33 is a really strong possibility. Even if it doesn't fall that way, there's still a likelihood that some enticing corners will make it to round 3 when they pick.

I think the issue with our DBs has less to do with talent and more to do with being football-stupid (relatively speaking). They have had trouble lining up correctly ever since Nelson and Jones left. Guys like Pacman, Reggie, Hall, and Newman were all savvy players that rarely made mental errors and knew where they were supposed to be on every play. Now we have guys like B Scubya Webb camping out at the line of scrimmage while his man blow past him for 7 in the SF game this year. We need someone back there that can lead and be the QB of the defense, as I saw another poster put it.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-02-2020, 01:16 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Send Andy to Bears for #50 (#2 2nd round pick), trade 3rd round pick to Lions for D. Slay. You now have Slay and a 2nd, second round pick for a top DB if they want. Dre and Dennard are now expendable. Problem solved.

I'm not sure I'm trading for a 29 year old CB who wants to be the highest paid corner in the league. 

As far as what we have, there's no reason we need to cut any of these guys when we won't go out and replace them.

The only guys I can see us "cutting" are Dalton and Glenn and that should free up about $30 million in cap space to sign our own guys (because that's what we do)

I'd have no problem going into next season with WJ3, Dre, Dennard, Phillips and a draft pick.  That's actually a pretty damn good set of CBs from top to bottom.

[BrownAssClown]

(03-03-2020, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes, Socal, please post the threads where I said we would make the playoffs this year.

I don't have the numbers for 2019 yet, but I suspect they are not good.  However when mulitple DBs who have looked good in the past (Bates, Jackson, Kirkpatrick) all suddenly look bad at the same time I am duessing it had more to do with coaching and/or scheme than the players all forgeting how to perform.

I also don't have rankings on Kikrpatrick for '12 and '14 when he did not play enough snaps to qualify, but every other year in his career Dre has ranked in the top half of all starting CBs in Football Outsiders "passing yards per play".  And he has finished in the TOP TEN twice.

2018...29th
2017...31st
2016... 5th
2015...28th
2013...10th

Well from your own prediction thread you started Mr. Toast you predicted a 10-6 record. The Titans got in with a 9-7 record, so in a way you did say the Bengals would make the playoffs or at least post a record that would've had them in a wild card playoff game.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Record-prediction-open-poll?highlight=prediction

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-03-2020, 09:18 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Well from your own prediction thread you started Mr. Toast you predicted a 10-6 record. The Titans got in with a 9-7 record, so in a way you did say the Bengals would make the playoffs or at least post a record that would've had them in a wild card playoff game.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Record-prediction-open-poll?highlight=prediction

Lol 10-6 awesome. He was so close. The same guy that thinks Dre, Vigil, N Peko are elite.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2020, 04:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jackson was a rookie who missed the entire training camp.  You guys have no clue if he was even prepared to step in and play.  Once the season begins there are not a lot of practice reps for a rookie to learn the basics.  Regular season practice is more about game planning for a specific opponent

I still believe, from an investment standpoint, that getting Jackson some game experience and evaluating his was much more important than Peerman....

[*jason*]

(03-03-2020, 09:49 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Lol 10-6 awesome. He was so close. The same guy that thinks Dre, Vigil, N Peko are elite.

A bit hyperbolic...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I'd prefer Dennard over Kirkpatrick. They both have troubles staying healthy, and both have terrible hands, but at least you can count on Dennard to tackle.

I will maintain my stance that Dennard has always been miscast as a CB. He would have been much better off spending 2014 putting on 10-20lbs of muscle and moving to S.