Is Dre K really worth much in trade?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2020, 10:01 PM)Passepartout Wrote: Yeah as really D.P. could be a starter right away.

Why not? It is not like only 1st round Corners are starters in the NFL.

[*bengalfan74*]

I doubt it ?

I'm good whether they cut or trade him, I just hope they move on somehow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2020, 10:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I doubt it ?

I'm good whether they cut or trade him, I just hope they move on somehow.

Same, was just hoping for something for him if we could get it and then Au165 said about all we could get was about a 6th and I 
went meh. I am good either way myself, I don't think Kirkpatrick would be a big loss especially if we either get a decent FA, draft a 
Corner somewhat early or Phillips plays well.

So odds are 3 to 1 in my mind we upgrade lol

[BURROWorBUST]

(03-03-2020, 08:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Cut him, are you thinking that Phillips is ready to step up to be the full time starter?  Because I think it would be unwise to cut Dre outright, without at least attempting to get something in return.  They would then be creating another roster hole to fill via free agency or the draft, and in the big picture, when healthy he's a solid, experienced corner who might have a career year should the LB position be upgraded appropriately.  At least in my opinion.

Agreed. Dre's not as bad as alot of folks make him out to be. If Phillips can win the starting job over him, then so be it. But it's not worth trading him for a 5th or 6th rounder. Keep him and let him compete for a roster spot. We could look at Pride, the CB from Notre Dame, in the 4th round of the draft, but I wouldn't draft another corner higher or lower than the 4th, if then. Not unless we get some extra picks in the 2nd or 3rd for Andy. 

[Mobster]

So we cut Dre, and we have WJ3 and and unproven Darius Philips at corner... with nothing else? No thanks

[BengalsBong]

(03-04-2020, 12:08 AM)Mobster Wrote: So we cut Dre, and we have WJ3 and and unproven Darius Philips  at corner... with nothing else? No thanks

If DP beats out Dre for an outside CB spot and Jackson is outside then you got Dre riding the bench making bank cause at 6'2 he aint playing the slot. So we either resign Dennard or pick up a FA or Rookie to play the slot. We know what Dennard can do so I say cut Dre use that money to resign Dennard and draft a rookie in the 4th or higher depending on picks we get from trades. That rookie corner cant do any worse then Dre imo he looks bad when covering has no clue when to turn and knock the ball down and looks clumsy trying.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 12:31 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: If DP beats out Dre for an outside CB spot and Jackson is outside then you got Dre riding the bench making bank cause at 6'2 he aint playing the slot. So we either resign Dennard or pick up a FA or Rookie to play the slot. We know what Dennard can do so I say cut Dre use that money to resign Dennard and draft a rookie in the 4th or higher depending on picks we get from trades. That rookie corner cant do any worse then Dre imo he looks bad when covering has no clue when to turn and knock the ball down and looks clumsy trying.

And Dre is a terrible tackler lest we not forget...

This guy is not a solid starter and Billy B would have good CB's regardless of Draft position starting in front of him because 
of it. Terrible tackling, terrible hands and not a very good cover Corner is not solid.

I will never understand why we don't follow just a little bit of what the Patriots have done over the years and actually see 
good players over early Draft picks. If there is a model it is just starting the better players regardless of where they are 
drafted. The Draft is a crap shoot and always has been. There is a reason why Darius Phillips just changed games and 
scored the most TD's of any defensive player in college of all time.

[WhodeyRay]

Cutting Harris last year is really biting them in the arse. Guy played fantastic for Denver last year and if they kept him on a rookie 5th round deal instead of webb I would be more than happy to show Dre the door. We would have Phillips, wj3 and Harris and could resign Dennard for a good team deal. Now we almost have to keep his overpaid contract that could have opened up even more cap room for a rebuild.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 12:47 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Cutting Harris last year is really biting them in the arse. Guy played fantastic for Denver last year and if they kept him on a rookie 5th round deal instead of webb I would be more than happy to show Dre the door. We would have Phillips, wj3 and Harris and could resign Dennard for a good team deal. Now we almost have to keep his overpaid contract that could have opened up even more cap room for a rebuild.

Yep and Harris was good when he was here..

[BenZoo2]

There is no need to cut Dre yet. If Dalton is traded and Glenn is cut or traded that should free up the money to get f/a lb and guard with cash left over.

I am not so sure a lb or ol will there at 33 that’s worth it, we will see soon enough. There will be a good corner there I think, even if we trade back a bit.

I would only unload Dre if there is an opportunity to get a good player that’s released late. Trade him in training camp if another team has an injury for a pick next year if you can.

I’ve not been a fan of Dre and this contract since he signed it, but I’m not ready to create another hole just yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Au165]

(03-03-2020, 09:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who do you think would be on our radar? Slay is out of the question.

I am on the bubble with cutting Kirkpatrick still. I understand Sunset, Jason and Hammerstripes thoughts here.

Might want to wait for next year to cut Dre, I just don't see some solid Corner here. 

Dre is bad at tackling and is not a good cover Corner. He tries hard, I will give him this and he is better than Webb.

I don't think Slay is out, I think it comes down to how bad does Detroit want him gone. We saw Bouye go for a mid round 4th, if Detroit will take pick 65 for Slay sign me up.

I think Chris Harris on a two year deal would be a good move especially since he prefers to play out of the slot but can play outside. I kind of guess he will want to play for a contender though as his career is towards the end. 

If we are looking at second tier options a guy like Bradley Roby could be had after a solid year in Houston or maybe a another step down in Logan Ryan out of TEN. 

I think we add a CB in the draft either way so a veteran option is more likely a stop gap for a year, or maybe two, for Phillips and the rookie to get ready to go.

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 12:47 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Cutting Harris last year is really biting them in the arse. Guy played fantastic for Denver last year and if they kept him on a rookie 5th round deal instead of webb I would be more than happy to show Dre the door. We would have Phillips, wj3 and Harris and could resign Dennard for a good team deal. Now we almost have to keep his overpaid contract that could have opened up even more cap room for a rebuild.

Harris put up a PFF 53 last year, he wasn't good at all. In comparison Webb put up a 56 last year, so you are essentially swooning over a guy who was worse the BW Webb.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Kirkpatrick is only a mediocre cover guy, but he brings stupid plays, terrible tackling, and horrible hands to the table.

Now he also brings increasing durability concerns. He's missed more games every year for the last 4 years. He's never started 16 games. He's had multiple knee and shoulder issues. That's not going to help his tackling or coverage. That's not even including the fact that he's had 1 INT in the last 3 years.

Gotta move on. Spend the money on someone else in FA... be it at CB, LB, or OL.

[bengaloo]

(03-03-2020, 09:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: I believe we will sign a relatively high priced FA corner(or trade for one) as wild as that sounds. Historically corner is one of those places we have always been willing to pay top dollar, usually too our own guys but I wonder if that was as much a Marvin preference than anything.

Thats an interesting thought, but you are right we've got some good CBs in the past and have invested in that position. What about a guy like Logan Ryan from the Titans? He would seem to be an upgrade from Dre is we let Dre walk. Him or Eli Apple would both be intriguing to me if we cut Dre and may be in Bengal price range.

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 09:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Kirkpatrick is only a mediocre cover guy, but he brings stupid plays, terrible tackling, and horrible hands to the table.

Now he also brings increasing durability concerns. He's missed more games every year for the last 4 years. He's never started 16 games. He's had multiple knee and shoulder issues. That's not going to help his tackling or coverage. That's not even including the fact that he's had 1 INT in the last 3 years.

Gotta move on. Spend the money on someone else in FA... be it at CB, LB, or OL.

The turnover thing is something we need to look at across the defense. Phillips in 8 games last year had 4 interceptions, he needs to be starting somewhere on the defense next year. That is more than William Jackson has had his whole career, that is as many as Dre has had in the last 5 years, and that is more than Dennard has had his whole career. 

A lot can be forgiven if you have a nose for the ball and get turnovers. Marcus Peters is not a great cover corner but Baltimore went out and got him because he gets turnovers and he did not disappoint when he got to the Ravens. 

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 09:21 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Thats an interesting thought, but you are right we've got some good CBs in the past and have invested in that position. What about a guy like Logan Ryan from the Titans? He would seem to be an upgrade from Dre is we let Dre walk. Him or Eli Apple would both be intriguing to me if we cut Dre and may be in Bengal price range.

Ryan I think is a last resort but he can get turnovers, I'd like to see them look maybe a tier higher. I'm not a fan of Apple because he doesn't get turnovers and that is something I think we desperately need in order to turn the defense around. Bradly Roby is a lower tier CB I'd be interest in.

I mean if we want to get crazy and throw 16 Million at Byron Jones I wouldn't complain. While he isn't a turnover machine he is a really high end cover guy. If you can have William Jackson as your 2nd best corner and let Phillips play out of the slot and sag off his guy and jump routes the back end could be really good. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(03-04-2020, 12:31 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: If DP beats out Dre for an outside CB spot and Jackson is outside then you got Dre riding the bench making bank cause at 6'2 he aint playing the slot. So we either resign Dennard or pick up a FA or Rookie to play the slot. We know what Dennard can do so I say cut Dre use that money to resign Dennard and draft a rookie in the 4th or higher depending on picks we get from trades. That rookie corner cant do any worse then Dre imo he looks bad when covering has no clue when to turn and knock the ball down and looks clumsy trying.

I'm fine with the team cutting Dre if that's the direction they want to go, but let's not pretend a rookie 4th round corner can't do worse than him

None of last year's 4th round round picks got a higher grade from PFF than Kirkpatrick.

Kendall Sheffield 47.4
Isaiah Johnson 56.5
Iman Marshall 61.5


In fact of the four 2018 fourth round CBs, none of them got a higher grade in their second year than Kirkpatrick's underwhelming 61.7 either.

[bengaloo]

(03-04-2020, 09:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Ryan I think is a last resort but he can get turnovers, I'd like to see them look maybe a tier higher. I'm not a fan of Apple because he doesn't get turnovers and that is something I think we desperately need in order to turn the defense around. Bradly Roby is a lower tier CB I'd be interest in.

I mean if we want to get crazy and throw 16 Million at Byron Jones I wouldn't complain. While he isn't a turnover machine he is a really high end cover guy. If you can have William Jackson as your 2nd best corner and let Phillips play out of the slot and sag of his guy and jump routes the back end could be really good. 

I would love to see that kind of splash in FA. Byron Jones would be a big upgrade. I'm not a Dre hater, but we would be a better team if we replaced him with a better cover CB.

[Schmitbuck]

Listened to Paul Dehner Jr's podcast (Hear that podcast growlin) on the way into work this morning. Nothing earth shattering, but they touched on Dalton, Glenn, and free agency. They seem to think the Bengals' free agency priority will be:

1- CB - Said they think it's their top priority. I found that to be surprising. They think Dre will be cut when they sign a guy. Noted there are LOTS of good quality corners available but they are older. Most of the good ones they'd likely target are in their early 30s/upper 20s. They pointed to Logan Ryan as someone they may target, noting he's a very good slot corner who is also good on the outside.

2- LB - Said they'd be surprised if Schobert is signed due to money and the value not being there. They thought Blake Martinez is too inconsistent and that Nick Kwiakoski is someone they'll likely target.

3- DL - They didn't list any examples this time, but they've said before the DT market could be a buyer's market this year.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-04-2020, 12:47 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Cutting Harris last year is really biting them in the arse. Guy played fantastic for Denver last year and if they kept him on a rookie 5th round deal instead of webb I would be more than happy to show Dre the door. We would have Phillips, wj3 and Harris and could resign Dennard for a good team deal. Now we almost have to keep his overpaid contract that could have opened up even more cap room for a rebuild.

Harris was mediocre to shit last year so no, cutting him was not a bad thing at all.