Is Dre K really worth much in trade?

[CJD]

(03-04-2020, 12:08 AM)Mobster Wrote: So we cut Dre, and we have WJ3 and and unproven Darius Philips  at corner... with nothing else? No thanks

Presumably, we'd resign Dennard with the money we saved from Dre's contract.

[*Synric*]

(03-04-2020, 09:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: The turnover thing is something we need to look at across the defense. Phillips in 8 games last year had 4 interceptions, he needs to be starting somewhere on the defense next year. That is more than William Jackson has had his whole career, that is as many as Dre has had in the last 5 years, and that is more than Dennard has had his whole career. 

A lot can be forgiven if you have a nose for the ball and get turnovers. Marcus Peters is not a great cover corner but Baltimore went out and got him because he gets turnovers and he did not disappoint when he got to the Ravens. 

It's even more impressive than that...

He had 4 INTs and 7 PDs in 109 snaps. He got 22 snaps against Buffalo, 27 against Miami, and 53 against Cleveland. The only other games he got defensive snaps were 49ers (2), Jets (4), and Patriots (1). So he only really played 2 full games less really....

[Wes Mantooth]

If Dre was due 7-8 mil over the next two years (3-4 mil per) then maybe a team would take a flyer by sending us a late round pick for him. Maybe.

But he's not. He's due about 20 mil (10 mil per). I think you can make the argument that, as of right now, he's the most overpaid CB in the league.

No one is trading anything for him. No one. Not a 6th round pick. Not a 7th round pick. Not a few kicking tees. Not a used Ipod Nano. Nothing.

I have no idea who these "many" are who think he's "great trade bait". I've seen a few people, and only on here, say "I think we could get at least something for him". That's not many, and that's not great either.

Guys, I'm not sure some here have actually followed the league or trades close enough to understand this market. I don't say this to be mean, but it's the truth. The idea that he has trade value is both ridiculous and incredibly misinformed. That's not this league works.

You want to keep him, and pay your 3rd or 4th best corner double what he's worth. Fine. But you're not trading him for jack shat.

HE HAS NO TRADE VALUE. STOP.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-04-2020, 12:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: If Dre was due 7-8 mil over the next two years (3-4 mil per) then maybe a team would take a flyer by sending us a late round pick for him. Maybe.

But he's not. He's due about 20 mil (10 mil per). I think you can make the argument that, as of right now, he's the most overpaid CB in the league.

No one is trading anything for him. No one. Not a 6th round pick. Not a 7th round pick. Not a few kicking tees. Not a used Ipod Nano. Nothing.

I have no idea who these "many" are who think he's "great trade bait". I've seen a few people, and only on here, say "I think we could get at least something for him". That's not many, and that's not great either.

Guys, I'm not sure some here have actually followed the league or trades close enough to understand this market. I don't say this to be mean, but it's the truth. The idea that he has trade value is both ridiculous and incredibly misinformed. That's not this league works.

You want to keep him, and pay your 3rd or 4th best corner double what he's worth. Fine. But you're not trading him for jack shat.

HE HAS NO TRADE VALUE. STOP.

I’m telling you , the same Homer’s that predicted 11-5 last year think Dre is great. You can’t convince them otherwise

[bengals1969]

(03-03-2020, 09:22 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Cap hit if we cut the guy? I think if he has little to know cap hit, then they have a another player in FA in mind and cutting him makes sense.

$2.8 mil dead cap.

[BengalsBong]

(03-04-2020, 09:31 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I'm fine with the team cutting Dre if that's the direction they want to go, but let's not pretend a rookie 4th round corner can't do worse than him

None of last year's 4th round round picks got a higher grade from PFF than Kirkpatrick.

Kendall Sheffield 47.4
Isaiah Johnson 56.5
Iman Marshall 61.5


In fact of the four 2018 fourth round CBs, none of them got a higher grade in their second year than Kirkpatrick's underwhelming 61.7 either.

If DP beats Dre out for a starting spot then the 4th round guy will not always be on the field and neither would Dre. Dre making bank riding bench coming in rarely or a rookie coming in rarely on a rookie deal freeing up cash the fill other holes on the team. I would go with the rookie and if we get a good trade and another 3rd or 2nd round pick then the rookie might be a higher pick then the 4th round that is just as low as I would consider for a rookie CB.

[XenoMorph]

(03-04-2020, 10:56 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Presumably, we'd resign Dennard with the money we saved from Dre's contract.

if he can stay healthy.

[Destro]

Do we need a washing machine?

[*jason*]

(03-04-2020, 02:10 PM)Destro Wrote: Do we need a washing machine?

Those losers can take their unis home and wash em themselves.

[ezekiel23]

Dre is just plain bad,on top of being a penalty machine.Cut him.Phillips is ready to fill that role.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 09:10 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think Slay is out, I think it comes down to how bad does Detroit want him gone. We saw Bouye go for a mid round 4th, if Detroit will take pick 65 for Slay sign me up.

I think Chris Harris on a two year deal would be a good move especially since he prefers to play out of the slot but can play outside. I kind of guess he will want to play for a contender though as his career is towards the end. 

If we are looking at second tier options a guy like Bradley Roby could be had after a solid year in Houston or maybe a another step down in Logan Ryan out of TEN. 

I think we add a CB in the draft either way so a veteran option is more likely a stop gap for a year, or maybe two, for Phillips and the rookie to get ready to go.

The Lions have that much cap wrapped up in Slay huh? I guess it is a possibility then, wow.

Would love any of Chris Harris or Bradley Roby, then re-sign Dennard. If we cannot get one of these two Ryan would be an 
alright option. Like you said until Phillips is ready to go as I think he is the future. Some are talking him down on here a bit 
which surprises me, dude is a gamechanger, always has been. If he can grow into a good tackler the sky is the limit.

(03-04-2020, 09:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: The turnover thing is something we need to look at across the defense. Phillips in 8 games last year had 4 interceptions, he needs to be starting somewhere on the defense next year. That is more than William Jackson has had his whole career, that is as many as Dre has had in the last 5 years, and that is more than Dennard has had his whole career. 

A lot can be forgiven if you have a nose for the ball and get turnovers. Marcus Peters is not a great cover corner but Baltimore went out and got him because he gets turnovers and he did not disappoint when he got to the Ravens. 

Yes, cannot discount turnovers. Phillips has a knack for the ball.

(03-04-2020, 09:30 AM)Au165 Wrote: Ryan I think is a last resort but he can get turnovers, I'd like to see them look maybe a tier higher. I'm not a fan of Apple because he doesn't get turnovers and that is something I think we desperately need in order to turn the defense around. Bradly Roby is a lower tier CB I'd be interest in.

I mean if we want to get crazy and throw 16 Million at Byron Jones I wouldn't complain. While he isn't a turnover machine he is a really high end cover guy. If you can have William Jackson as your 2nd best corner and let Phillips play out of the slot and sag off his guy and jump routes the back end could be really good. 

All good ideas, Byron Jones is a bit spendy though.

(03-04-2020, 10:20 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Listened to Paul Dehner Jr's podcast (Hear that podcast growlin) on the way into work this morning. Nothing earth shattering, but they touched on Dalton, Glenn, and free agency. They seem to think the Bengals' free agency priority will be:

1- CB - Said they think it's their top priority. I found that to be surprising. They think Dre will be cut when they sign a guy. Noted there are LOTS of good quality corners available but they are older. Most of the good ones they'd likely target are in their early 30s/upper 20s. They pointed to Logan Ryan as someone they may target, noting he's a very good slot corner who is also good on the outside.

2- LB - Said they'd be surprised if Schobert is signed due to money and the value not being there. They thought Blake Martinez is too inconsistent and that Nick Kwiakoski is someone they'll likely target.

3- DL - They didn't list any examples this time, but they've said before the DT market could be a buyer's market this year.

Interesting, I can see CB and LB but haven't thought of DL much at all this Offseason besides Derek Wolfe. What are some of 
the other D-lineman out there in FA I wonder?

Personally I think we ought to go OL over DL in FA and that would open up the Draft more and we could go for a guy like 
Blacklock at 33 if we wanted.

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 03:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The Lions have that much cap wrapped up in Slay huh? I guess it is a possibility then, wow.

Would love any of Chris Harris or Bradley Roby, then re-sign Dennard. If we cannot get one of these two Ryan would be an 
alright option. Like you said until Phillips is ready to go as I think he is the future. Some are talking him down on here a bit 
which surprises me, dude is a gamechanger, always has been. If he can grow into a good tackler the sky is the limit.



Yes, cannot discount turnovers. Phillips has a knack for the ball.



All good ideas, Byron Jones is a bit spendy though.



Interesting, I can see CB and LB but haven't thought of DL much at all this Offseason besides Derek Wolfe. What are some of 
the other D-lineman out there in FA I wonder?

Personally I think we ought to go OL over DL in FA and that would open up the Draft more and we could go for a guy like 
Blacklock at 33 if we wanted.

The issue is the Lions don't want to pay him like a top corner. In Slay's case or Byron's case you'd be paying the top of the corner market but in both cases I would be happy to do it because it would essentially let William Jackson kick down to cover #2 receivers and I like those odds.

[Schmitbuck]

(03-04-2020, 03:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Interesting, I can see CB and LB but haven't thought of DL much at all this Offseason besides Derek Wolfe. What are some of 
the other D-lineman out there in FA I wonder?

Personally I think we ought to go OL over DL in FA and that would open up the Draft more and we could go for a guy like 
Blacklock at 33 if we wanted.

I think their thinking re: defensive line is to possibly let Billings walk. 

I'm with your on OL over DL in FA (though I'm greedy and want both). I'm really interested to see who is targeted. Sounds like Scherff will be franchised. Thuney/Conklin are probably too expensive. I know Glasglow is sort of a board favorite but who is after that if they can't sign him? I'm sure there will be plenty of competition for him. I think it's a pretty big drop unless they're good with a 1-2 year guy. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 03:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: The issue is the Lions don't want to pay him like a top corner. In Slay's case or Byron's case you'd be paying the top of the corner market but in both cases I would be happy to do it because it would essentially let William Jackson kick down to cover #2 receivers and I like those odds.

Sounds good, I like your thinking.

(03-04-2020, 03:23 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I think their thinking re: defensive line is to possibly let Billings walk. 

I'm with your on OL over DL in FA (though I'm greedy and want both). I'm really interested to see who is targeted. Sounds like Scherff will be franchised. Thuney/Conklin are probably too expensive. I know Glasglow is sort of a board favorite but who is after that if they can't sign him? I'm sure there will be plenty of competition for him. I think it's a pretty big drop unless they're good with a 1-2 year guy. 

Fieler is out there and I would be more than happy with him, plus we would be stealing from the stealers.

Re-sign BILLINGS!!!

[Schmitbuck]

(03-04-2020, 03:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Fieler is out there and I would be more than happy with him, plus we would be stealing from the stealers.

Re-sign BILLINGS!!!

I have a fieling (see what I did there) Fieler will receive a high tender. Don't know if I'd want to give up a pick for him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 03:39 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I have a fieling (see what I did there) Fieler will receive a high tender. Don't know if I'd want to give up a pick for him.

I don't know either, would rather just stiel him...

[*Synric*]

(03-04-2020, 03:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: The issue is the Lions don't want to pay him like a top corner. In Slay's case or Byron's case you'd be paying the top of the corner market but in both cases I would be happy to do it because it would essentially let William Jackson kick down to cover #2 receivers and I like those odds.

Byron Jones and Darius Slay are looking to reset the Corner market. We are talking 17 to 18m per year...

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 04:02 PM)Synric Wrote: Byron Jones and Darius Slay are looking to reset the Corner market. We are talking 17 to 18m per year...

I figured 16-17 but either way not a big deal. With the new CBA Slay will be less able to hold out on this last year of his deal and you wait to see what Jones gets and work from there. In reality I’d give Slay 17 for three with it front loaded.

In reality the Bengals wouldn’t most likely reset the market for an outsider but who knows, weird things happen.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-04-2020, 09:31 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I'm fine with the team cutting Dre if that's the direction they want to go, but let's not pretend a rookie 4th round corner can't do worse than him

None of last year's 4th round round picks got a higher grade from PFF than Kirkpatrick.

Kendall Sheffield 47.4
Isaiah Johnson 56.5
Iman Marshall 61.5


In fact of the four 2018 fourth round CBs, none of them got a higher grade in their second year than Kirkpatrick's underwhelming 61.7 either.

While this goes to support my premise that Kirkpatrick won't net much in trade, it also supports the idea of just flat out cutting him in favor of allowing Darius Phillips to start, and drafting a new CB.  The way this class breaks down, in my opinion, there should be solid CBs available in the 3rd round.  Just as this draft is loaded with WR talent, it's also got plenty of DBs who have been covering these same receivers.

Edit: What's most shocking about the PFF numbers posted, is that Dre is a former 1st round selection that was playing in his 8th season. He should be rocking a score in the 80s, with that pedigree.

[WhodeyRay]

(03-04-2020, 09:14 AM)Au165 Wrote: Harris put up a PFF 53 last year, he wasn't good at all. In comparison Webb put up a 56 last year, so you are essentially swooning over a guy who was worse the BW Webb.

I dont care about his pff score. Denver was on a lot where I live and I saw him play. There is zero comparison to Webb.