Is Dre K really worth much in trade?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 05:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While this goes to support my premise that Kirkpatrick won't net much in trade, it also supports the idea of just flat out cutting him in favor of allowing Darius Phillips to start, and drafting a new CB.  The way this class breaks down, in my opinion, there should be solid CBs available in the 3rd round.  Just as this draft is loaded with WR talent, it's also got plenty of DBs who have been covering these same receivers.

Edit:  What's most shocking about the PFF numbers posted, is that Dre is a former 1st round selection that was playing in his 8th season.  He should be rocking a score in the 80s, with that pedigree.

That's what I am talkin' about Sunset, we also might go out and get a CB in FA from what I am hearing.

It is a deep draft for not only WR's, but interior O-lineman. 

If we get a CB and LB in FA, we can still get a good Guard in the Draft somewhat early.

(03-04-2020, 06:00 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: I dont care about his pff score. Denver was on a lot where I live and I saw him play. There is zero comparison to Webb.

Yeah, I watch a lot of Denver where I am at too. More than any other team and Harris looked good when I watched him.

PFF doesn't tell the whole story lots of the time.

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 06:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That's what I am talkin' about Sunset, we also might go out and get a CB in FA from what I am hearing.

It is a deep draft for not only WR's, but interior O-lineman. 

If we get a CB and LB in FA, we can still get a good Guard in the Draft somewhat early.



Yeah, I watch a lot of Denver where I am at too. More than any other team and Harris looked good when I watched him.

PFF doesn't tell the whole story lots of the time.

No offense but 95% of fans have no clue what they are watching when it comes to coverage. They also don’t see anything away from the ball. Harris was benched at one point in the year for poor play, but had a couple nice plays that fans remember over all the bad. I’m going to go with the guys who watched the all 22 and know what they are watching on this one.

He allowed 71% of the targets against him to be caught. That’s not good by any metric but it doesn’t mean he’s trash just not that he is worth planting your flag on “Bengals screwed up letting him go” hill.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-04-2020, 07:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: No offense but 95% of fans have no clue what they are watching when it comes to coverage. They also don’t see anything away from the ball. Harris was benched at one point in the year for poor play, but had a couple nice plays that fans remember over all the bad. I’m going to go with the guys who watched the all 22 and know what they are watching on this one.

The all 22?  Is this a subscription service that anyone can sign up for?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 07:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: No offense but 95% of fans have no clue what they are watching when it comes to coverage. They also don’t see anything away from the ball. Harris was benched at one point in the year for poor play, but had a couple nice plays that fans remember over all the bad. I’m going to go with the guys who watched the all 22 and know what they are watching on this one.

He allowed 71% of the targets against him to be caught. That’s not good by any metric but it doesn’t mean he’s trash just not that he is worth planting your flag on “Bengals screwed up letting him go” hill.

No offense taken, but I can tell good coverage from bad. Maybe I was watching the wrong Harris lol

71% completion against him is bad though, you are correct as usual.

I respect your opinion on football probably more than anyone on here so I will defer to your knowledge on this one.

(03-04-2020, 08:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The all 22?  Is this a subscription service that anyone can sign up for?

Was wondering what this meant myself?

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 08:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The all 22?  Is this a subscription service that anyone can sign up for?

Yea NFL.com offers NFL game pass which essentially lets you watch every play from the all 22 angle above which you can see everyone on the field. It’s what the teams use for scouting and tape break down.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-04-2020, 08:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea NFL.com offers NFL game pass which essentially lets you watch every play from the all 22 angle above which you can see everyone on the field. It’s what the teams use for scouting and tape break down.

Interesting, I guess if you DVR a game in that mode, you could pause, rewind, zoom in, etc., and really dissect what is going on with any given player on the field.

[Au165]

(03-04-2020, 08:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Interesting, I guess if you DVR a game in that mode, you could pause, rewind, zoom in, etc., and really dissect what is going on with any given player on the field.

It’s only available through a computer online I think the next day and then all games are archived to view whenever. I had it two seasons ago, didn’t do it last year because...well they were really bad and I didn’t watch many games period haha.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2020, 08:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: Yea NFL.com offers NFL game pass which essentially lets you watch every play from the all 22 angle above which you can see everyone on the field. It’s what the teams use for scouting and tape break down.

(03-04-2020, 08:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Interesting, I guess if you DVR a game in that mode, you could pause, rewind, zoom in, etc., and really dissect what is going on with any given player on the field.

(03-04-2020, 08:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: It’s only available through a computer online I think the next day and then all games are archived to view whenever. I had it two seasons ago, didn’t do it last year because...well they were really bad and I didn’t watch many games period haha.

Well, you better know what is going on if you have this. Damn, I just watch the games and see what pops out to me.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-03-2020, 07:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dre could possibly net a 6th but I think we cut him in the end.

I would be shocked if they let him go.  Unless they end up drafting a CB very high that they believe has starter potential.  That group has had a lot of injury history and it would leave them paper-thin in terms of depth.

That being said, if I am offered the choice between Dre and someone line Littleton, I would wave goodbye to Dre draft pick or not.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-05-2020, 08:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I would be shocked if they let him go.  Unless they end up drafting a CB very high that they believe has starter potential.  That group has had a lot of injury history and it would leave them paper-thin in terms of depth.

That being said, if I am offered the choice between Dre and someone line Littleton, I would wave goodbye to Dre draft pick or not.  

Do you think that this is the year for Darius Phillips to step up and assume a greater role?  I get that in his two seasons, he hasn't been on the field extensively.  But, in the limited amount of snaps he has played, he's shown some pretty good football instincts and been quite productive.

I also get that the Bengals put a ton of stock into 1st round CBs.  However the last 3 that they have taken in the 1st round, just haven't lived up to the hype.  Kirkpatrick, Dennard and Jackson just aren't even close to being as productive as Joseph and Hall were.  But, when you look around NFL rosters, I see productive Corners coming from all rounds of the draft.  I'm not ready to lump our corners in with other draft flops like Fisher and Ogbuehi, but that's a lot of 1st round picks that didn't turn into perennial stars.  Either the Bengals should reevaluate their approach to the draft, or take a hard look at their talent elvaluators.

[BengalsBong]

(03-04-2020, 08:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: It’s only available through a computer online I think the next day and then all games are archived to view whenever. I had it two seasons ago, didn’t do it last year because...well they were really bad and I didn’t watch many games period haha.

Early games that are played at 1pm or 4pm you can watch after midnight some late games you have to wait till midnight the next day to watch them again. I get it every year. 100 bucks for the whole season and you can watch them in the offseason till training camp starts I think.

[Housh]

No

If I were a team that needed him I’d offer a 6th and leave it at that. We’re probably gonna cut him anyway unless he has a great camp

[BengalsBong]

(03-05-2020, 11:31 AM)Housh Wrote: No

If I were a team that needed him I’d offer a 6th and leave it at that. We’re probably gonna cut him anyway unless he has a great camp

At his age I do not really see him turning it around all of a sudden.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-05-2020, 01:00 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: At his age I do not really see him turning it around all of a sudden.

What's to "turn around"?  All he needs to do is get healthy, and play to his normal level.  Last season was an anomaly, compared to what we typically see from him.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KirkDr00.htm

I think what some are doing, is just writing him off as a bad player, because he was injured and only played in 5 games last season, and wan't very strong in those games.  In light of AJ Green being out for the entire season, and Cordy Glenn with the very questionable, prolonged concussion protocol, and Jonah Williams not playing a down all season long;  It becomes very easy to allow emotion to take over, and simply write guys off as bad players, or past their prime, because their situations let you down, when you were counting on them to come through for your viewing enjoyment.

[fredtoast]

You guys know I often defend Dre, but because of his contract Dre does not have a lot of trade value.

I don't think he is grossly overpaid and i don't think we will release him but i doubt we trade him.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-05-2020, 04:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: .Last season was an anomaly, compared to what we typically see from him.

In 2017 he finished with a PFT rating of 56.4. Which ranked 91st out of qualifying CB's.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-05-2020, 04:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: In 2017 he finished with a PFT rating of 56.4. Which ranked 91st out of qualifying CB's.

Again injuries, not a deficiency in talent.  He was battling a shoulder injury sustained in week 5 for the entire middle of the season, then he had to be IRed from the hyperextended knee after week 10.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-05-2020, 04:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think he is grossly overpaid

As of right now he's the 16th highest paid cornerback in the league.

He's also only the 3rd or 4th best cornerback on the league's worst team and a terrible defense.

No Pro Bowls ever. 1 INT over last 3 years. One of the worst tacklers in the entire league. Missed time every year since 2015. Aging out of position.

How is he not overpaid? His contract says he should be good enough to be the #1 CB for 16 teams. Do you think he lives up to that?

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-05-2020, 04:31 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: As of right now he's the 16th highest paid cornerback in the league.

He's also only the 3rd or 4th best cornerback on the league's worst team and a terrible defense.

No Pro Bowls ever. 1 INT over last 3 years. One of the worst tacklers in the entire league. Missed time every year since 2015. Aging out of position.

How is he not overpaid? His contract says he should be good enough to be the #1 CB for 16 teams. Do you think he lives up to that?

Enough with the facts already. He’s a starter on the Bengals my favorite team so he’s a top 10 cornerback!!!

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-05-2020, 04:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Again injuries, not a deficiency in talent.  He was battling a shoulder injury sustained in week 5 for the entire middle of the season, then he had to be IRed from the hyperextended knee after week 10.

He played in 14 games in 2017. Think you got the wrong year.