{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[Stormborn]

(09-13-2015, 12:32 AM)The_Nasty_419 Wrote: Just to be on the record, I think Dalton is serviceable.  Really, who are we going to get to replace him!?  Who has been available in recent years?!  Nobody.  I skim most haters' comments since they never have an answer. 

AD All Day!

Until we have a top ten draft pick.

Theodore BridgeH2O

Other than that it's been poo.

[Wes Mantooth]

My buddy lives out in the Bay area and managed to take this video of Andy in the walkthough today:

[BengalB]

(09-13-2015, 02:06 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: My buddy lives out in the Bay area and managed to take this video of Andy in the walkthough today:

This made me lol!! Perfect!!

[kdgjr]

Andy is like a box of chocolates...

[jfkbengals]

(09-12-2015, 10:07 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Dalton is the best QB that the Bengals have ever had.

Dalton is the worst QB that the Bengals have ever had.

Dalton is the most average QB that the Bengals have ever had.

There.  That should about cover it.

You have to repeat these with Bengals being replaced by NFL.


Good job making ths thread, bye the way.

[Brownshoe]

(09-13-2015, 12:58 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Theodore BridgeH2O

Other than that it's been poo.

How has Bridgewater looked better than Dalton? He looked alright as a rookie, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. He played 13 games and had 2919 yards 14 TDs and 12 INTs.

[Stormborn]

(09-13-2015, 11:11 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: How has Bridgewater looked better than Dalton? He looked alright as a rookie, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. He played 13 games and had 2919 yards 14 TDs and 12 INTs.

Take a look at the 2014 Minnesota Vikings and come back to me.

It's about who he is as a player and the traits he already possesses that make him better down the road. 

He's already twice the pocket passer Andy is, Norv put an ample amount of pressure on Teddy with a ton of 5-7 step drops with one of the worst offensive lines, maybe the worst offensive line in the league, and proved to be one of the best QBs under pressure in terms of accuracy and pocket play.

He knows how to manipulate a pocket, maneuver around while keeping his eyes downfield, his poise is better than Dalton's will probably ever be. He read defenses like a true veteran, why? Because that's what he did at Louisville. 

Bottom line for me, Andy will produce stats with a healthy personnel group but they will make him look better than what he is from a skill perspective. Put Teddy in this offense now and you'll get equal to greater production with a higher development ceiling from a first round talent.

[Brownshoe]

(09-13-2015, 11:56 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Take a look at the 2014 Minnesota Vikings and come back to me.

It's about who he is as a player and the traits he already possesses that make him better down the road. 

He's already twice the pocket passer Andy is, Norv put an ample amount of pressure on Teddy with a ton of 5-7 step drops with one of the worst offensive lines, maybe the worst offensive line in the league, and proved to be one of the best QBs under pressure in terms of accuracy and pocket play.

He knows how to manipulate a pocket, maneuver around while keeping his eyes downfield, his poise is better than Dalton's will probably ever be. He read defenses like a true veteran, why? Because that's what he did at Louisville. 

Bottom line for me, Andy will produce stats with a healthy personnel group but they will make him look better than what he is from a skill perspective. Put Teddy in this offense now and you'll get equal to greater production with a higher development ceiling from a first round talent.

Bridgewater had an alright rookie season. He still has a lot to prove. We will see what he can do with his improved offense this year.

[Bengalholic]

(09-13-2015, 12:58 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Theodore BridgeH2O

Other than that it's been poo.

I loved the pick of Dennard, but in Bridgewater, I thought they had the perfect opportunity to grab a quality 'just in case' QB, to stash behind Dalton for a couple of years and eventually take the reigns if Dalton didn't get the job done.


Much like his own play, my confidence in Andy has been very up and down. I'm actually pretty indifferent anymore. I'm just hoping he cuts down on the bad/silly mistakes, and that he and Hue will focus on the the things he does well.


Andy is not a 'bad' QB by any means...but he is one of those QB's that always make you a little nervous in pressure situations. That, combined with his inconsistency, really wears on the confidence of a fan...at least IMO.

[Luvnit2]

(09-13-2015, 12:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I loved the pick of Dennard, but in Bridgewater, I thought they had the perfect opportunity to grab a quality 'just in case' QB, to stash behind Dalton for a couple of years and eventually take the reigns if Dalton didn't get the job done.


Much like his own play, my confidence in Andy has been very up and down. I'm actually pretty indifferent anymore. I'm just hoping he cuts down on the bad/silly mistakes, and that he and Hue will focus on the the things he does well.


Andy is not a 'bad' QB by any means...but he is one of those QB's that always make you a little nervous in pressure situations. That, combined with his inconsistency, really wears on the confidence of a fan...at least IMO.

I think some were higher on Bridgewater than the Bengal scouting team. Teddy has started well, but Griffin started well also so let's see how he progresses.

The Bengals went a different route grabbing Dennard and the grabbing McCarron. I see AJ with as much upside long term as Teddy, but again a long way to go over their careers before that is decided.

Many may disagree, but in 2014 and 2015, I still believe AD is better than Teddy and the better option for us to win more games and playoff games. That is just my humble opinion.

[BigPapaKain]

Good idea in theory.

But I doubt the usual suspects will quell their egos long enough to not have their own topic about it in practice.

Truth be told, 3 separate threads could be made for Dalton. One were people can go to bash him unrelentingly, one were people can go to praise him unrelentingly, and then one were discussion can happen. That way the guys who just want a circle-jerk can have it and everyone else can have a discussion.

[Stormborn]

(09-13-2015, 12:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I loved the pick of Dennard, but in Bridgewater, I thought they had the perfect opportunity to grab a quality 'just in case' QB, to stash behind Dalton for a couple of years and eventually take the reigns if Dalton didn't get the job done.


Much like his own play, my confidence in Andy has been very up and down. I'm actually pretty indifferent anymore. I'm just hoping he cuts down on the bad/silly mistakes, and that he and Hue will focus on the the things he does well.


Andy is not a 'bad' QB by any means...but he is one of those QB's that always make you a little nervous in pressure situations. That, combined with his inconsistency, really wears on the confidence of a fan...at least IMO.

Agreed on Teddy. It would've been an ideal situation, however I wouldn't have let Marvin and Teddy stay on the same team.

I think at this point we all know what he is, where he succeeds and fails. He'll always keep the offense competitive against pretty much everyone outside of the division, we gotta hope he plays at least serviceable in the division and make him throw it a lot less than his 36 attempt per game average from 2013 to 2014. The prime time issue I still believe is more on the HC and his track record but at some point your QB has to step up in games that matter.

It's very possible that he was a different player mentally at TCU and then the early failures he's had here derived from the people who started this issue are decreasing his confidence. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-13-2015, 11:11 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: How has Bridgewater looked better than Dalton? He looked alright as a rookie, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. He played 13 games and had 2919 yards 14 TDs and 12 INTs.

1.) He had a higher QB rating and higher QBR as well.
2.) He had a higher completion percentage.
3.) He averaged more passing yards per game.
4.) He had a better TD to INT ratio.
5.) He averaged more yards per attempt.
6.) He rushed for more yards.

All this in a rookie year, with Matt Asiata as his main RB, and Greg Jennings and Jarius Wright as his 1/2 punch.  And he too lost his Tight End (Kyle Rudolph) for much of the season.

What's funny is that stat line you posted, which is supposed to convince us he didn't do that much yet, isn't far of from Andy Dalton's 16 game total in year 5. 3,398 for 19 and 17.  How sad is that?

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-13-2015, 12:07 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I loved the pick of Dennard, but in Bridgewater, I thought they had the perfect opportunity to grab a quality 'just in case' QB, to stash behind Dalton for a couple of years and eventually take the reigns if Dalton didn't get the job done.

I started a hypothetical thread before the draft last year, where I detailed how much of a value QB rookie deals were compared to vet deals, unless you truly had an elite QB.  I went on to say that I thought it made more sense, if possible, to trade Andy for a 2nd rounder, pocket the cap space, and draft Teddy Bridgewater, along with signing a cheaper vet to compete for the job in year 1. (See Fitz, Ryan) I never for this to actually happen, was just only pointing out how much sense I thought it made.

Oh, man, was I ripped.  "Stupidest thread ever."  "Please, make it stop."  "Can we just ban this guy." "This guy just clearly hates Dalton.

Not once did any of these people apologize after the fact.  No one rehashed that thread afterwards.  I was tempted to but felt an "I told you so" wouldn't go over well in the old forums. 

I do wonder how many people would agree with that logic now. Teddy Bridgewater + cheap vet + extra draft pick +10-12 mil in cap space > Andy Dalton @14-18 mil (this was my guess at the time). Man, I wish I could bump that thread right now.

[jfkbengals]

(09-13-2015, 12:46 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) He had a higher QB rating and higher QBR as well.
2.) He had a higher completion percentage.
3.) He averaged more passing yards per game.
4.) He had a better TD to INT ratio.
5.) He averaged more yards per attempt.
6.) He rushed for more yards.

All this in a rookie year, with Matt Asiata as his main RB, and Greg Jennings and Jarius Wright as his 1/2 punch.  And he too lost his Tight End (Kyle Rudolph) for much of the season.

What's funny is that stat line you posted, which is supposed to convince us he didn't do that much yet, isn't far of from Andy Dalton's 16 game total in year 5. 3,398 for 19 and 17.  How sad is that?

#4 is incorrect.  Dalton had a better ratio.

#5 (Not to change the subject) I always found to be a stupid metric.  QB #1 can have 10 attempts, only one of which is completed, for 60 yards.  QB #2 can have 10 attempts, all completions, at exactly 6 yards.  They both have a 6 yard average per attempt.  IMO, they can't be compared without relying on other statistics to tell the story making it a little useless.  I guess that is why they created the QB rating in the first place.

[Stormborn]

(09-13-2015, 01:09 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: #4 is incorrect.  Dalton had a better ratio.

Nope. 14/12 > 19/17. But there's no reason to make it about a difference of .04

Like I said originally, it's not necessarily about the numbers. Derek Carr had a great statistical year last year, much better than Teddy's, but one looked terrible under pocket pressure and overall less accurate. There are some who can handle it and some who can't.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning will crack under interior pressure, it happens, but they both know how to move around and manipulate it to negate the pressure, wherever it's coming from. Teddy has shown in year 1 to have these traits, Derek, not so much. Neither has Dalton for that matter.

[jfkbengals]

(09-13-2015, 01:30 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Nope. 14/12 > 19/17. But there's no reason to make it about a difference of .04

Like I said originally, it's not necessarily about the numbers. Derek Carr had a great statistical year last year, much better than Teddy's, but one looked terrible under pocket pressure and overall less accurate. There are some who can handle it and some who can't.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning will crack under interior pressure, it happens, but they both know how to move around and manipulate it to negate the pressure, wherever it's coming from. Teddy has shown in year 1 to have these traits, Derek, not so much. Neither has Dalton for that matter.

You're right, I see what I did.  1.117 for Dalton.  My brain missed one of the ones, so I read 1.17!

[Utts]

Andy is bad.

[type_stripe]

(09-13-2015, 12:46 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) He had a higher QB rating and higher QBR as well.
2.) He had a higher completion percentage.
3.) He averaged more passing yards per game.
4.) He had a better TD to INT ratio.
5.) He averaged more yards per attempt.
6.) He rushed for more yards.

All this in a rookie year, with Matt Asiata as his main RB, and Greg Jennings and Jarius Wright as his 1/2 punch.  And he too lost his Tight End (Kyle Rudolph) for much of the season.

What's funny is that stat line you posted, which is supposed to convince us he didn't do that much yet, isn't far of from Andy Dalton's 16 game total in year 5. 3,398 for 19 and 17.  How sad is that?

Why not compare Dalton's rookie stats with Teddy's? It makes more sense to evaluate them at the same time in their careers than to start crying out Teddy had a better rookie year than Dalton's 4th year. I mean Teddy still has the upper hand in most categories, but the stats are similar. He's good and could be something else, but it Just doesn't make sense to say Teddy is a better option for the future because his rookie year was slightly better than Dalton's rookie and 4th years. 

RG3 rookie stat line through 15 games:  258/393, 65% comp., 3200 yard, 20 TDs, 5 INTs, 3 Fumbles (as passer), QBR (stupid stat) 75.6, and rating 102.4

What's RG3 today? the benchwarmer? Just wait before anything

[Shake n Blake]

(09-13-2015, 01:51 PM)Utts Wrote: Andy is bad.

Nu-uh. Andy is good.

(Man, this debate ain't what it used to be)