{The Ultimate ANDY DALTON Mega Thread}

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 06:10 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: You guys don't have to agree with me. I didn't like the choice. I've seen it too many times where that pass goes for 6 the other way, without interference from the defender.  With that said, I realize those throws must be made from time to time. I just didn't like that particular throw. I've tried to find video of it, with no luck. If anyone can locate it, that would be swell.

It's  unclear to me how I would 'over think myself' but I assure you, that's not what I'm doing, lol.

When the defender is in front of the ball and not completely out of position. 
Sorry, it isn't an opinion play. 
You are just wrong. 

[Devils Advocate]

(09-14-2015, 07:10 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: When the defender is in front of the ball and not completely out of position. 
Sorry, it isn't an opinion play. 
You are just wrong. 

If you say so.

 But if that defender jumps that play, like they've done so many times in the past against Bengal QB's, you're singin' a different tune. 

I've said all I'm gonna say about it unless someone can find the video. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 07:19 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: If you say so.

 But if that defender jumps that play, like they've done so many times in the past against Bengal QB's, you're singin' a different tune. 

I've said all I'm gonna say about it unless someone can find the video. 

The defender wasn't in position to jump the route dude. 
That's why he had to HOLD. He had to cheat to get in position. 
What part of that are you incapable of comprehending?

[Devils Advocate]

(09-14-2015, 07:21 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The defender wasn't in position to jump the route dude. 
That's why he had to HOLD. He had to cheat to get in position. 
What part of that are you incapable of comprehending?

I didn't like it. I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. You can have yours and we can disagree. 

Find the video or move along. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 07:28 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I didn't like it. I'm allowed to have an opinion on it. You can have yours and we can disagree. 

Find the video or move along. 

Hayden hold on AJ

There. 
Plain as day, AJ has the ball except the DB holds and gives himself a chance to make a play. Otherwise it's six.

Using your logic, any throw can be a bad throw because it has been picked before. Hell, you should have hated just about every pass to Eifert

[Junglejuice]

(09-14-2015, 03:41 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Andy was outstanding yesterday. But I didn't like the throw to AJ in the end zone where AJ was held or interfered with. They got the call, but I just think that was an awful throw where in times past, woulda went for 6 the other way.

Maybe it was sign of things to come this season, that that pass wasn't pick 6'd,  and the ball bounces our way, so to speak, for the duration of the season and into the playoffs and Super Bowl.

That was a pretty obvious flag... not a bounce our way situation at all.
Dalton knew it and so did Green...
When the DB is hugging the WR in space its an obvious PI


Best case scenario???  He makes a play and its a TD

worst case scenario he does not and its half the distance to the goal.
It was going to be a free play so I had no problem with taking a stab at it.

[jfkbengals]

(09-14-2015, 08:12 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: That was a pretty obvious flag... not a bounce our way situation at all.
Dalton knew it and so did Green...
When the DB is hugging the WR in space its an obvious PI


Best case scenario???  He makes a play and its a TD

worst case scenario he does not and its half the distance to the goal.
It was going to be a free play so I had no problem with taking a stab at it.

Ditto

[Devils Advocate]

(09-14-2015, 07:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Hayden hold on AJ

There. 
Plain as day, AJ has the ball except the DB holds and gives himself a chance to make a play. Otherwise it's six.

Using your logic, any throw can be a bad throw because it has been picked before. Hell, you should have hated just about every pass to Eifert

That is not a video of the throw. Still, you can see the ball is placed on the inside where in years past it went for 6 the other way. 

I'm not talking about the interference. I'm talking about the decision and placement of the throw. In this way, the interference is irrelevant.  Yes AJ was held. Yes, on that particular play the ball placement didn't matter because of the penalty. But in Andy's decision making process, it's highly unlikely that the foul ran through his head as he made the decision and released the ball. And if it did, then I'll say it compounds the poor decision. You can't rely on a flag from the refs. Now, I know there's examples of this where players do rely on a flag, more often than not though, it isn't the QB. It's a receiver trying gain an interference call. But there are exceptions. 

It was a poorly thrown ball, the foul being irrelevant.

  I'll try to find the end zone view that they replayed. But I haven't found it yet and I've looked every where I can think of to look. 

[Devils Advocate]

(09-14-2015, 08:12 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: That was a pretty obvious flag... not a bounce our way situation at all.
Dalton knew it and so did Green...
When the DB is hugging the WR in space its an obvious PI


Best case scenario???  He makes a play and its a TD

worst case scenario he does not and its half the distance to the goal.
It was going to be a free play so I had no problem with taking a stab at it.

I shoulda been more clear from jump. The foul is irrelevant. The decision and placement of the throw is what I have an issue with. 

Before anybody says I'm hating on Andy, no I'm not. I've been on his side since he was drafted. I just didn't like that throw. 

I may be playing 'ifs and buts' a lil, but that pass gets pick 6'd More times than not. That's all I'm saying. There's a better view from the end zone but it's clear as day in the video above. The pass was inside and AJ was covered. Had the ball been thrown down and away, I wouldn't bring it up. But it wasn't and in my estimation, we got away with one because luckily the defender committed a foul and wasn't in position to take advantage of about the only mistake Andy made all day. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 08:43 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: That is not a video of the throw. Still, you can see the ball is placed on the inside where in years past it went for 6 the other way. 

I'm not talking about the interference. I'm talking about the decision and placement of the throw. In this way, the interference is irrelevant.  Yes AJ was held. Yes, on that particular play the ball placement didn't matter because of the penalty. But in Andy's decision making process, it's highly unlikely that the foul ran through his head as he made the decision and released the ball. And if it did, then I'll say it compounds the poor decision. You can't rely on a flag from the refs. Now, I know there's examples of this where players do rely on a flag, more often than not though, it isn't the QB. It's a receiver trying gain an interference call. But there are exceptions. 

It was a poorly thrown ball, the foul being irrelevant.

  I'll try to find the end zone view that they replayed. But I haven't found it yet and I've looked every where I can think of to look. 

And you would still be wrong. 
The ball is thrown right on AJ's numbers. When Hayden holds and MOVES AJ, the throw looks inside. 
You can say this all you want, you are still wrong. Hayden was out of position. The ball was put where it should have been. Hayden held AJ and made it look like a bad throw. 


You can say it is irrelevant (it isn't. It's hugely important.) but his being out of position and BEHIND the WR is why it's a good throw. 
If you can't grasp that, then I don't know what to tell you.

That's the only view they showed that shows AJ the whole time. The normal sideline view AJ isn't in until after the ball is almost on him so you can't see anything before hand.

[Devils Advocate]

(09-14-2015, 09:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And you would still be wrong. 
The ball is thrown right on AJ's numbers. When Hayden holds and MOVES AJ, the throw looks inside. 
You can say this all you want, you are still wrong. Hayden was out of position. The ball was put where it should have been. Hayden held AJ and made it look like a bad throw. 


You can say it is irrelevant (it isn't. It's hugely important.) but his being out of position and BEHIND the WR is why it's a good throw. 
If you can't grasp that, then I don't know what to tell you.

That's the only view they showed that shows AJ the whole time. The normal sideline view AJ isn't in until after the ball is almost on him so you can't see anything before hand.

No it's not. There's an endzone view of the play with AJ in the foreground as the camera follows Andy as he rolls to his right. 

You can say I'm wrong all you want. It doesn't make it so. That video you provided doesn't show the throw but it shows the placement, and it was inside. Even if the defender pushed AJ, which he didn't because you can't push and hold at the same time, it wasn't placed where AJ had the best chance of making the play. And in fact was thrown WAY inside, upon further viewing.

I really don't like to play "shoulda, woulda, coulda's". I never do. But in this situation I find it a relevant concept. If the defender is in better position, it's 6 the other way because it was a poor throw. 

With that said, unless you can locate the endzone video or a quote or something outside of your opinion of the play, whether you agree or not, I'm gonna agree to disagree. I didn't like the throw. Without something more than your opinion, you won't change my mind. Good day. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 09:59 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: No it's not. There's an endzone view of the play with AJ in the foreground as the camera follows Andy as he rolls to his right. 

You can say I'm wrong all you want. It doesn't make it so. That video you provided doesn't show the throw but it shows the placement, and it was inside. Even if the defender pushed AJ, which he didn't because you can't push and hold at the same time, it wasn't placed where AJ had the best chance of making the play. And in fact was thrown WAY inside, upon further viewing.

I really don't like to play "shoulda, woulda, coulda's". I never do. But in this situation I find it a relevant concept. If the defender is in better position, it's 6 the other way because it was a poor throw. 

With that said, unless you can locate the endzone video or a quote or something outside of your opinion of the play, whether you agree or not, I'm gonna agree to disagree. I didn't like the throw. Without something more than your opinion, you won't change my mind. Good day. 

You're just being obtuse at this point. Later batshit crazy guy. 

[Shake n Blake]

(09-14-2015, 09:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And you would still be wrong. 
The ball is thrown right on AJ's numbers. When Hayden holds and MOVES AJ, the throw looks inside. 
You can say this all you want, you are still wrong. Hayden was out of position. The ball was put where it should have been. Hayden held AJ and made it look like a bad throw. 


You can say it is irrelevant (it isn't. It's hugely important.) but his being out of position and BEHIND the WR is why it's a good throw. 
If you can't grasp that, then I don't know what to tell you.

That's the only view they showed that shows AJ the whole time. The normal sideline view AJ isn't in until after the ball is almost on him so you can't see anything before hand.

This. You can clearly see that in the process of the mugging, Hayden hugs AJ with his right arm and attempts to get him out of the way so that he can get directly into the path of the ball. It was a good throw. The WWE style pass interference moved AJ, but you can clearly tell that the ball would've been spot on.

AJ was actually starting to go towards the ball (Andy was throwing him open), but again, Hayden prevented that.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-14-2015, 10:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This. You can clearly see that in the process of the mugging, Hayden hugs AJ with his right arm and attempts to get him out of the way so that he can get directly into the path of the ball. It was a good throw. The WWE style pass interference moved AJ, but you can clearly tell that the ball would've been spot on.

AJ was actually starting to go towards the ball (Andy was throwing him open), but again, Hayden prevented that.

He's batshit crazy. And it unfortunately it seems a lot of the crazy moved here from the last board. 

[BURROWorBUST]

(09-14-2015, 05:11 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What? That was a fine throw and a TD for us if the DB doesn't hold. 
The only reason the DB was in a position to get near it, was the hold.
Don't over think yourself.

THAT was one of the most egregious holds I've ever seen in the NFL (or college). AJ made a great play just to make a play on that ball. Maybe Andy saw it as an easy PI to get us another first down.

[djs7685]

(09-14-2015, 10:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You're just being obtuse at this point. Later batshit crazy guy. 

Dare I say he's being a devil's advocate?

[Devils Advocate]

(09-15-2015, 08:18 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Dare I say he's being a devil's advocate?

Not this time ... well I guess I kinda am because I thought Andy played fantastically, outside of this play.


These are guys are focusing on the wrong end of the play. It was a bad read and worse throw.  And I'll repeat, if Andy was relying on a flag ( I don't believe he was ), it compounds to the poor execution. 

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 08:34 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Not this time ... well I guess I kinda am because I thought Andy played fantastically, outside of this play.


These are guys are focusing on the wrong end of the play. It was a bad read and worse throw.  And I'll repeat, if Andy was relying on a flag ( I don't believe he was ), it compounds to the poor execution. 

Meh, my only issue with Andy is that he still threw out his patented sailed balls a couple times, and those are just asking to be tipped and intercepted (but then blamed on the receiver in JN). You can get away with sailing the ball a bit when you're throwing out to the sidelines on a deep route, but when you sail a pass in the middle of the field with a safety behind your target, you're asking for trouble. I can't even get mad at him for throwing those though because he just played great otherwise, I'll worry more if the trend continues and turns into bad games overall.

Other than that, I can't seem to find anything else to even nitpick. Hue and Andy were on fire out of the gate with those quick passes and Andy was on target with almost every pass of the day. He probably has an 85% completion percentage if the receivers hold onto a couple balls that they clearly should have caught. This is one game where I have no issue with people blaming the receivers because Andy was very accurate most of the day. MLJ and A.J. need to step it up and play to their potential, Sunday was disappointing for both of them. I do believe MLJ was open and could have been targeted at least 1 other play where Andy didn't even think about throwing his way, but it was still a completion so no complaints. Our WR1 and WR2 still need to be playmakers whether Eifert is going ham or not.

Now, while I don't have a complaint about Andy, I will laugh at part of the fanbase real quick. I'm VERY happy with Andy on Sunday, but I can't help but giggle at the fact that he just had a very similar game to a guy like Russell Wilson or an Alex Smith, and the super duper Andy defenders that usually bash those 2 QBs are now singing Andy's praises. He threw a ton of very quick passes, some dump offs, relied on the run game early to move the chains and score, and only took a limited number of shots downfield completing a couple of them. It really reminded me of a typical Russell Wilson performance (with a little less mobility). I'm pumped to see Andy play like that, but shouldn't the usual RW haters be complaining about Andy now?

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-15-2015, 01:10 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's batshit crazy. And it unfortunately it seems a lot of the crazy moved here from the last board. 

We're you on the old board?  What was your name?

Also, why are you such an asshole to everyone you disagree with?  It seems like there's no revving up either.  Just zero to asshole in about .1 seconds. What a ***** dick.

[djs7685]

(09-15-2015, 12:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: We're you on the old board?  What was your name?

Also, why are you such an asshole to everyone you disagree with?  It seems like there's no revving up either.  Just zero to asshole in about .1 seconds.  What a ***** dick.

It's berserker, I'm surprised people can't tell just by reading his posts lol

I wish I could complain about people being dicks too, but I'm about 2 seconds away from being banned every other day