Patriots Not Considering Dalton

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2020, 04:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Daryl Williams could be a really good pickup.  He was firmly established on the Panther OL before the MCL cost him all but one game of 2018.  He seems to have recovered, as he played in all 16 games this season, starting 12 of them.

Williams is coming off of his rookie deal, so he is likely looking for a long term deal.  Bobby Hart is coming into the 2nd year of his 3 year deal, and would count $2M in dead cap to get rid of.  The team seems to love Hart's upside of being a "work in progress" that is still only 25 y/o and now having 5 years of experience as a pro.  

Fans like us can easily see that Williams is clearly the better talent of the two, but getting rid of Hart seems to be a hard sell to the team.


Edit:  I realize that this is, yet another, Andy Dalton thread, and that a few of us have drifted way off topic in this thread about Andy Dalton.  However with all things related to the team being somewhat interdependent upon other actions taking place right now, I kind of feel like we can be excused for this minor atrocity.

Lot of stuff goes hand and hand with what happens with Dalton, so it makes it all understandable.

(03-22-2020, 04:44 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Looks like we were posting about this at the same time. Agreed that Hoyer is backup calibre, but a move I don't think they make if they were figuring on Dalton. It may really be that Belichick knows he's rebuilding anyway, so he wants to use his resources to surround whomever plays QB with talent. 

I also agree they've done Dalton wrong. Not just cutting him, but cutting him when most of the starting jobs are spoken for. 

Should of taken whatever they could of gotten for both Dalton and the team's sake.

Not act like all we will take is a 2nd rounder for a QB that would not be here anyways.

Thought they did great in FA before this. This is doing Dalton and the team a disservice IMO.

But they haven't cut Dalton yet so we will see how this ends up. Just not happy with the way it is looking.

(03-22-2020, 04:46 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I was thinking of Williams at RG, but a guy who can slide out to tackle in an emergency. He played a lot of guard this year in Carolina. 

Sua-Filo would then compete with Jordan at LG, and is making back up salary anyway. 

Would like this, Daryl Williams at RG and as emergency and having Jordan and XSF fight it out at LG.

XSF has played LG way more than RG anyways.

[JerseyDD09]

(03-22-2020, 04:44 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Looks like we were posting about this at the same time. Agreed that Hoyer is backup calibre, but a move I don't think they make if they were figuring on Dalton. It may really be that Belichick knows he's rebuilding anyway, so he wants to use his resources to surround whomever plays QB with talent. 

I also agree they've done Dalton wrong. Not just cutting him, but cutting him when most of the starting jobs are spoken for. 

This statement is way off base Geno. How have the Bengals done Dalton Wrong???? It always takes 2 to tango with these NFL teams.
And, how much has MB paid Dalton over the last 9 years???? I'm sure Dalton and family are doing just fine these days.

First, every team that was needing a starting QB knew that Dalton was available. If they thought that he was a better option than the QB they signed, they would've pulled the trigger with the Bengals for a 3rd/4th round pick. The only rumor that may have any merit has been that Chicago offered a 4th round choice for him. But, we still don't know 100%. And, I can't blame MB at the time for not giving him up for a 4th rounder. There were still other QB's not signed at that time as well.

Second, MB is still paying him $17 Million at this time. He's not been cut yet. I don't know how that's doing him wrong at the current time? That will be a lot of $$ for a backup.
I don't believe it would be a good move to keep your starting QB for the past 9 years on a team that your next Franchise QB is getting drafted onto. (Kitna was a different situation for Palmer).
But, I can see MB paying Dalton and waiting for the trade deadline after a starting QB goes down in order to get some good draft capital. That's just how he is and that's not a bad thing. He's looking out for his franchise.

Lastly, If he does have to cut him before, during or after the draft, there will still be enough time for Dalton to go to a team that didn't get a QB they wanted. Or, he could still re-sign at a cheaper price as backup here if he doesn't want to move his family.

God help Andy Dalton's well being.....

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-22-2020, 02:50 PM)McC Wrote: Most people are saying this about Cam. It is true about his flamboyance.  What I keep sayng in response is people act differently when they get to NE.  And I'm pretty sure a potential NE signee gets a little talk about such things before he even signs just so there is no mystery.  A lot of goofy people only act that way because they're allowed to.  If Cam has to choose between funky clothes and continuing his career, what is his likely choice?

Yep

For the most part people will do what's expected of them. There's dozens of examples. We all new the rules when dad was around vs. mom This supervisor vs. that. Players know if they sign up with the hoodie they're not gonna run their own show.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(03-22-2020, 05:06 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: This statement is way off base Geno. How have the Bengals done Dalton Wrong???? It always takes 2 to tango with these NFL teams.
And, how much has MB paid Dalton over the last 9 years???? I'm sure Dalton and family are doing just fine these days.

Well sure, in the bigger context I don't feel bad for professional athletes at all. But I think it's obvious when we're on internet message boards that we're dealing in the much narrower context of the NFL. You're just taking that out of context. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2020, 05:06 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: This statement is way off base Geno. How have the Bengals done Dalton Wrong???? It always takes 2 to tango with these NFL teams.
And, how much has MB paid Dalton over the last 9 years???? I'm sure Dalton and family are doing just fine these days.

First, every team that was needing a starting QB knew that Dalton was available. If they thought that he was a better option than the QB they signed, they would've pulled the trigger with the Bengals for a 3rd/4th round pick. The only rumor that may have any merit has been that Chicago offered a 4th round choice for him. But, we still don't know 100%. And, I can't blame MB at the time for not giving him up for a 4th rounder. There were still other QB's not signed at that time as well.

Second, MB is still paying him $17 Million at this time. He's not been cut yet. I don't know how that's doing him wrong at the current time? That will be a lot of $$ for a backup.
I don't believe it would be a good move to keep your starting QB for the past 9 years on a team that your next Franchise QB is getting drafted onto. (Kitna was a different situation for Palmer).
But, I can see MB paying Dalton and waiting for the trade deadline after a starting QB goes down in order to get some good draft capital. That's just how he is and that's not a bad thing. He's looking out for his franchise.

Lastly, If he does have to cut him before, during or after the draft, there will still be enough time for Dalton to go to a team that didn't get a QB they wanted. Or, he could still re-sign at a cheaper price as backup here if he doesn't want to move his family.

God help Andy Dalton's well being.....

The issue is the Bengals said they were going to help Dalton land in a good place and that they said all they would take for him
was a 2nd round pick. The only team that really made sense before Rivers signed with the Colts was the Patriots and they don't
even have a second round pick. This is my issue, just cutting him is doing Dalton a disservice IMO.

Oh well, we will see how this plays out.

[JerseyDD09]

(03-22-2020, 05:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The issue is the Bengals said they were going to help Dalton land in a good place and that they said all they would take for him
was a 2nd round pick. The only team that really made sense before Rivers signed with the Colts was the Patriots and they don't
even have a second round pick. This is my issue, just cutting him is doing Dalton a disservice IMO.

Oh well, we will see how this plays out.

Who and where did you see that they would only take a #2 pick for Dalton??? Please show me that concrete evidence.

[JerseyDD09]

(03-22-2020, 05:16 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Well sure, in the bigger context I don't feel bad for professional athletes at all. But I think it's obvious when we're on internet message boards that we're dealing in the much narrower context of the NFL. You're just taking that out of context. 

You are right about that Geno. But, what about the rest of my points on the topic?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2020, 05:52 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Who and where did you see that they would only take a #2 pick for Dalton??? Please show me that concrete evidence.

Here, all over the place.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(03-22-2020, 05:53 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You are right about that Geno. But, what about the rest of my points on the topic?

They re-hash all the points that we've all been discussing throughout this thread, and I just didn't feel like typing it all over again. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-22-2020, 06:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Here, all over the place.

IMO a 2nd rounder was always too high.
Was Dalton a starter? Yes.
Was he solid? Yes.
But you don't trade a 2nd rounder for just "solid."
Bengals should have been more realistic and traded Dalton for a 3rd or 4th. Joe Flacco was traded for a 4th last year.
With that said, we don't know what, if anything, was offered for Dalton, so we can't assume even a 3rd or 4th was offered and Mike Brown refused.

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 06:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Here, all over the place.

Spec--spec--spec--spec--speculation.

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 06:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: IMO a 2nd rounder was always too high.
Was Dalton a starter? Yes.
Was he solid? Yes.
But you don't trade a 2nd rounder for just "solid."
Bengals should have been more realistic and traded Dalton for a 3rd or 4th. Joe Flacco was traded for a 4th last year.
With that said, we don't know what, if anything, was offered for Dalton, so we can't assume even a 3rd or 4th was offered and Mike Brown refused.

Yep.  We also don't know that maybe the Bengals would have taken the supposed 4th round Bears deal but Andy wanted no part of Nagy's game to make whatsisface play better.  And maybe the guy from Texas said hell no, it's too damn cold in Chicago.  We're guessing scenarios, let's guess them all.

Sorry Andy.  This is your new reality.  You're a multi-millionaire.  You'll get by.

[TecmoBengals]

At this point, it is what it is. Hold onto him as an expensive backup and hope a trade presents itself or release him and move on.

[Earendil]

Why are we paying any attention to Florio and his goons?

[Kingslayer]

I'd still hold on to him. Players get hurt all the time and it doesn't have to be done right now

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 08:02 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: I'd still hold on to him.  Players get hurt all the time and it doesn't have to be done right now

The cap situation will probably be the determining factor for that.

[*Nately120*]

This isn't so much "woe is Dalton, poor Andy" but the odd realization that Boomer and Palmer both demanded out and it led to trades that benefited both of them and the Bengals as an organization. Dalton is the first franchise QB of the MB era to not demand a trade and here we are wondering what the hell we are supposed to do with this QB who isn't refusing to play for us.

It's kinda wacky. I almost picture Dalton showing up for training camp and Mike Brown being like "Wait...why do you keep coming back?!"

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2020, 06:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: IMO a 2nd rounder was always too high.
Was Dalton a starter? Yes.
Was he solid? Yes.
But you don't trade a 2nd rounder for just "solid."
Bengals should have been more realistic and traded Dalton for a 3rd or 4th. Joe Flacco was traded for a 4th last year.
With that said, we don't know what, if anything, was offered for Dalton, so we can't assume even a 3rd or 4th was offered and Mike Brown refused.

Shit, I would of taken a 7th rounder for him...

(03-22-2020, 06:41 PM)McC Wrote: Spec--spec--spec--spec--speculation.

Guess so.

[McC]

(03-22-2020, 08:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This isn't so much "woe is Dalton, poor Andy" but the odd realization that Boomer and Palmer both demanded out and it led to trades that benefited both of them and the Bengals as an organization.  Dalton is the first franchise QB of the MB era to not demand a trade and here we are wondering what the hell we are supposed to do with this QB who isn't refusing to play for us.

It's kinda wacky.  I almost picture Dalton showing up for training camp and Mike Brown being like "Wait...why do you keep coming back?!"

I've been saying for years that Mike should adopt the Seinfeld opposite approach.  Well, now there are signs that he finally listened to me,

[BonnieBengal]

(03-22-2020, 04:39 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Well the Patriots just signed Hoyer, which I figured would happen.

I don't think they'd do that if they had Dalton in mind. The Dalton to the Patriots stuff was always just Peter King's speculation, I'm not sure there was ever real substance to it.

The Patriots have a lot of later round draft picks and may pick up some compensatory 3rd rounders.  They're picking #23 in the first round, which is a high pick for them.  Maybe they have an eye on an under the radar QB they think they can get in the draft.