Zac Taylor changing MB's mind about Analytics?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(03-25-2020, 04:05 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Do you think the defense as is right now looks better on paper than the offense with Burrow, Jonah and AJ?
Will it stop people at under 20 per game?
Will that offense score more with those additions, averaging 20+ per game?
Just curious as to your thoughts....

This is a very high quality question!

I think the defensive roster looks better on paper than the offense; the defensive scheme the players will be coached to execute may prove a different story.  Lou Anarumo can put a formidable roster together on paper -- and he has -- but the defensive scheme will be different in 2020.  What I've seen  planned is a 4-3 to 3-4 hybrid which matches the best defenses in the league.  If you watch Baltimore, New England, San Francisco, and yes, Pittsburgh play defense the new "set" involves three and sometimes two linemen in a three point stance surrounded by hybrid defensive end - outside linebackers standing up.  There are still plays calling for a traditional 4-3 or 3-4 "set" but not as much as before.  I hope Lou integrates this 2-4-5 and 3-4-4 defense into the playbook.

My expertise is defense and I think yes, properly executed, the Bengals can hold opponents to less than 20 points per game.  That means not allowing big plays, shutting down chunk yardage plays, keeping the ball in front of you, getting off the field after third down, and most of all tackling at first contact.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-25-2020, 04:02 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: All I know for sure is that in Zac's first FULL off-season, after months of being able to view and evaluate this roster, we get these types of signings, and cuts from guys that were signed just last year.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that Zac has influenced and changed this franchises approach.

Do you think they did this with ML? Certainly doesn't seem like it to this extent. They must be ALL IN for ZT, which I am not drinking the kool-aid as well

[*Synric*]

I know this will get overlooked with all the great defensive signings that are strong against the run... but the Bengals have also attacked special teams with not just one not even two but THREE experience special teams guys in Tony Brown, Mike Thomas, and Lashaun Sims.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-25-2020, 04:42 PM)Synric Wrote: I know this will get overlooked with all the great defensive signings that are strong against the run... but the Bengals have also attacked special teams with not just one not even two but THREE experience special teams guys in Tony Brown, Mike Thomas, and Lashaun Sims.

Great point, have also helped out Simmons and his #1 Special Teams unit.

[Okeana]

(03-25-2020, 04:13 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: I totally agree Okeana!

I'd just like to know where all this money is coming from for the Bynes, Sims and Bell signings???

They must already have Dalton's and Dre's contracts off their books to be doing these right?

yes it's obvious that either way those guys are gone.  All signs have pointed that way for a while now.  I still think that trades are being negotiated and Dalton to the Jags seems like a win/win for everyone involved.  

[sandwedge]

(03-25-2020, 03:11 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: So, do you all see the youth movement by our young HC changing the way the Bengals view and use FA?

This FA definitely has Taylor's analytical stamp on it. There's no denying it.

It's not just the money that's being spent, but how.

Every player they've brought in has played a lot of football, their PFF grades are better than the players they lost, and they're all young and ascending players still.

In the past, it's always been veteran descending player, at a medium sized contract.

I'm really liking the Bengals FA period this year. It's different and based on analytics and money.

We'll all see if it all works or not!!?

New Day!!

I've had to deal analytics in the past and it's very helpful. However when it comes to the Bengals, you didn't need spreadsheets laid out in front of you. We've been screaming for years, getting players in FA past their prime was actually hurting the roster. 

[sandwedge]

(03-25-2020, 04:09 PM)Okeana Wrote: One other point I would like to make is that the team from the start has been 100% behind Taylor and since he's on a two-year deal they may have opened the books to give him the best opportunity to prove himself before making decisions about the future of the team.  The major complaint from coordinators that turned us down last year was that our team and specifically our defense was simply too old and didn't have enough talent.  All these things combined with the media probably made them reevaluate where this team was and realize they had to change because the draft only concept wasn't working.

Excellent point!

[caneyoufeelit]

So we'll probably be better against the run.

Wouldn't we all agree that we're going to be worse against the pass?

[McC]

(03-25-2020, 05:12 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: So we'll probably be better against the run.

Wouldn't we all agree that we're going to be worse against the pass?

Not necessarily.  Now you line up two guys who can destroy pockets up the middle, which is a QB's nightmare.  Maybe you don't have to cover for four or five seconds and everybody gets better.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-25-2020, 05:12 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: So we'll probably be better against the run.

Wouldn't we all agree that we're going to be worse against the pass?

No, Kirkpatrick won't be here anymore, Bynes is better against the pass than Vigil, Reader frees up Geno, Hubbard, Dunlap and 
Lawson more so they can attack the QB. Waynes is better against the pass than Kirkpatrick. Bates will only grow into his own 
next to a more quality Safety in Bell. Pratt will get better especially with a smart LB in Bynes. I could go on and on.

Plus stopping the run puts Offenses in 2nd and 3rd and longs where Interceptions are more likely to happen.

[BrownAssClown]

I don't know what Zac's done to Mike brown's mind, but I hope he keep's it up.

[McC]

(03-25-2020, 05:22 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I don't know what Zac's done to Mike brown's mind, but I hope he keep's it up.

This might very well be the path that was agreed on last February in the interview where Lap said Zac blew then away.

[Joelist]

You have to like the infusion of talent into the defense - every addition so far has been good at tackling and we have only lost a tiny bit of pass coverage ability. I'll willingly trade a tiny bit off of pass defense for a massive jump in run defense.

[Earendil]

Changed his mind about analytics???

It seems more like he murdered him in his sleep and stuffed him in a dumpster.

[TecmoBengals]

I don't know about you fellows, but Zac has me wanting some Bengals gear with these moves. Time to buy a new hat! (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm pumped and need a new hat lol).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-25-2020, 06:02 PM)Earendil Wrote: Changed his mind about analytics???

It seems more like he murdered him in his sleep and stuffed him in a dumpster.

[Whatever]

(03-25-2020, 03:11 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: So, do you all see the youth movement by our young HC changing the way the Bengals view and use FA?

This FA definitely has Taylor's analytical stamp on it. There's no denying it.

It's not just the money that's being spent, but how.

Every player they've brought in has played a lot of football, their PFF grades are better than the players they lost, and they're all young and ascending players still.

In the past, it's always been veteran descending player, at a medium sized contract.

I'm really liking the Bengals FA period this year. It's different and based on analytics and money.

We'll all see if it all works or not!!?

New Day!!

This probably partly the case, but it's likely a combination of factors.

I would say that Mike was probably not comfortable with throwing around a ton of money last off-season due to the uncertain labor climate.  With a new CBA in place, he now knows what he's dealing with for the foreseeable future.

He likely also was unsure last year on how much of the issue was with the scheme/coaches and how much was with the players.  They changed coaches and still got poor results, so logically the roster had issues.  Contrary to popular belief, Mikey has been spending for awhile, but it's primarily been to retain our good players.  When you don't have a lot of good young players to resign because you haven't drafted well, that logically means you start spending on outside players.

A possibility is also that they planned to tank the season for a QB from the outset, though it was likely originally Tua and not Burrow if that was the case.  There are things that line up with that realm of thinking.  AJ sitting all year a sprained ankle.  Glenn sitting a big chunk of the year with a self reported concussion even though league doctors cleared him.  Players mysteriously retiring.  The fact that they won their first game when they had a 2 game cushion for the #1 pick and won the second when it was locked up.

It's likely Mike wanted a coach that embraced analytics simply because Chris Collinsworth owns PFF and the two are known to have a good relationship.  Collinsworth would be a guy that Mikey would trust that would broach those kinds of ideas with him.  Marvin was very against analytics, openly scoffing at them in pressers.  It's been said by other owners and GM's that Mike has a dollar value and a trade value in his head for every player on the roster.  For a guy who's already assigning those kinds of number values to players, tools which assign values to players would seemingly be something that would be embraced.  

[BengalFanInNJ]

If ZT is the driving force between Mike Brown's change to free-agency, then he already deserves Coach of the Year.

[dr tarzan]

(03-25-2020, 04:09 PM)Okeana Wrote: One other point I would like to make is that the team from the start has been 100% behind Taylor and since he's on a two-year deal they may have opened the books to give him the best opportunity to prove himself before making decisions about the future of the team.  The major complaint from coordinators that turned us down last year was that our team and specifically our defense was simply too old and didn't have enough talent.  All these things combined with the media probably made them reevaluate where this team was and realize they had to change because the draft only concept wasn't working.

Just where is this information of the DC's that spurned the Bengals?   This is the first I have heard of this.   

[Bengal Dude]

(03-25-2020, 08:14 PM)dr tarzan Wrote: Just where is this information of the DC's that spurned the Bengals?   This is the first I have heard of this.   

It came out last year that Todd Grantham thought there was very little talent on the defense when he interviewed for the job last year.