The difference with this Free agent haul

[sandwedge]

(03-27-2020, 12:28 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: If I pay everyone 5 bucks, will you all put FredToast on ignore?

$5 - 2020
$1 - 2021
$1 - 2022

That's the deal I'm looking for....

[TecmoBengals]

(03-27-2020, 12:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Geno will probably be next.

You think the Bengals will get any love when his time comes?  Bias and shade toward Cincinnati and the Bengals is very real.

[fredtoast]

Here is the problem with Greens career numbers.

When he came into the league in 2011 there had only been 26 total 1500 yard receiving seasons (by 17 different players) in the 90 year history of the NFL. In the nine seasons since it has been done 20 times by 13 different players (never once by Green).

Green is 7th all time in NFL history in receiving yards per game, but just 6th among active players.

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-27-2020, 12:36 PM)sandwedge Wrote: $5 - 2020
$1 - 2021
$1 - 2022

That's the deal I'm looking for....

It’s firm but fair. Deal.

[bengals1969]

(03-26-2020, 04:06 PM)Okeana Wrote: you're so witty

He's got a fair point.  $19 million to an historically injury prone skilled position guy who's 32 is a big risk even if the Bengals have perfect insight to his current health.
What I like about this free agency is the focus on talent to upgrade their weakest players on defense.  They have eliminated all their weak links on defense from last season except at LB.   Obviously they do the same to the offense on draft day.  Oline gets a makeover.  In fact that gives Burrows an Oline that stays together on rookie deals over the next 4-5 years.  That is rare these days. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-27-2020, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is the problem with Greens career numbers.

When he came into the league in 2011 there had only been 26 total 1500 yard receiving seasons (by 17 different players) in the 90 year history of the NFL.  In the nine seasons since it has been done 20 times by 13 different players (never once by Green).

Green is 7th all time in NFL history in receiving yards per game, but just 6th among active players.

I haven't read every post in this thread but in a way I'm with you on the AJ thing Fred. I'm still leery of paying him 18 million on the tag.

From 2011-15 AJ averaged 83 Rec. 1,234 yards, 9 TD's and only missed 4 games.

From 2016-19 he's averaged 47 Rec. 684 yards, 4.5 TD's and has missed 29 games. It's been quite some time since he played at an elite level (2017 he was good) and he'll be 32 before this season starts.

I'd love to see AJ come back and help Burrow. Question is can he return to even 2017 form ? I just have my doubts he can stay on the field.

[McC]

(03-27-2020, 12:28 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: If I pay everyone 5 bucks, will you all put FredToast on ignore?

LOL.  If I thought it would stop him, I would.

[McC]

(03-27-2020, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is the problem with Greens career numbers.

When he came into the league in 2011 there had only been 26 total 1500 yard receiving seasons (by 17 different players) in the 90 year history of the NFL.  In the nine seasons since it has been done 20 times by 13 different players (never once by Green).

Green is 7th all time in NFL history in receiving yards per game, but just 6th among active players.

How much control over his numbers does a WR have?

Bottom line, smart or stupid, they're paying him that much and that's all there is to it.  Might as well suck it up and deal with it.  Your objection is noted and any further emphasizing of it is pointless.

[caneyoufeelit]

(03-27-2020, 08:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Where did we get worse against the pass?  And how many of those struggles last year were due to a lack of pass rush and soft against the rush?  Harder to defend a 3rd and 2 than a 3rd and 9.  

If you take away Dre, DD, Vigil, etc and add in Waynes, Bell, Bynes, etc, their pass coverage abilities overall are much worse. 

Fine, we did a much better job upgrading against the run but we're almost robbing Peter to pay Paul. 

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-27-2020, 01:33 PM)McC Wrote: LOL.  If I thought it would stop him, I would.

We don't have to stop him. If we all ignore him, he'll essentially be shouting in an empty hallway. Sooner or later, he'll show himself out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-27-2020, 01:53 AM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: If we constantly put these "run stopper" guys on the field on 1st or 2nd down, what in the hell do you think opposing teams are going do to? 

Reader isn't just a run stopper, neither are Bynes, Bell or Waynes. You act like these guys cannot cover at all. Idiotic.

Reader is a decent pass rusher too, especially when he is one on one with a Guard or Center.

What in the hell do you propose, keep the same guys we had on a 2-14 team? GTFO.

[impactplaya]

What I don't get is that Fred thinks keeping AJ is a
Bad move yet thought the Bengals should have retained
Nick Vigil ???? Huh ??

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2020, 04:33 PM)impactplaya Wrote: What I don't get is that Fred thinks keeping AJ is a
Bad move yet thought the Bengals should have retained
Nick Vigil ???? Huh ??

There are a lot of things you don't get.

I never argued that we should retain Vigil, but I did say I thought the Bengals would.  What I pointed out was that Bynes is not really an upgrade.  Vigil is a decent starter, but I would have had no problem with him being replaced by a better player.

[t3r3e3]

(03-26-2020, 02:19 PM)Mer Wrote: Is he really? I'm not sold on that. We hear it a lot around here but I'm more on the he's a great player when healthy side. Saying generational player is a bit much for a player that is often inured lately and tends to disappear or lose focus on catches in big games. Just my 2 cents.

How about HoF talent then?

[Kingslayer]

(03-26-2020, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except for the $19 million we guaranteed to a 32-year-old WR who has not played in two years.

You do know they can cut or trade him right?

I think you are just scared to death that the anti free agency, keep the status quo drum you have been beating for years is about to be shattered.

[impactplaya]

(03-27-2020, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are a lot of things you don't get.

I never argued that we should retain Vigil, but I did say I thought the Bengals would.  What I pointed out was that Bynes is not really an upgrade.  Vigil is a decent starter, but I would have had no problem with him being replaced by a better player.

The film shows he's a upgrade. The stats prove he's a upgrade 
Shows us where Vigil is a better linebacker 

[grampahol]

The sports world loves to toss out phrases such as THE GREATEST of ALL TIME..GOAT.. The problem with such phrases is time never stops. Someone (or several someone's), someday will probably break all the records and those records in turn will be broken eventually. The GOAT only counts if the game just ceases to exist and even then new games will pop up periodically and nobody will care about the old games. Same with generational talents. There can be and often are more than one generational talent. Think Shortstops in baseball or pitchers.. There have been quite a few over the years.

Anyway..the thing that strikes me is the Bengals seem to be doing the right thing in free agency the one season we don't even know if there will even be a season. Heck, for all we know huge gatherings of people will remain banned for a few years which could potentially bankrupt the league or at least a few teams.. I'm not saying that will happen, but it might. If he go into a global depression there won't be huge gatherings of people to watch games just because few will be able to afford to go unless they cut ticket prices to zilch just to get new fans.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-27-2020, 04:02 PM)caneyoufeelit Wrote: If you take away Dre, DD, Vigil, etc and add in Waynes, Bell, Bynes, etc, their pass coverage abilities overall are much worse. 

Fine, we did a much better job upgrading against the run but we're almost robbing Peter to pay Paul. 

This may sound odd, but a better rush defense will make it easier to pass defense.  Like I said, 3rd and 9 vs. 3rd and 2.

I seriously doubt that Dre should be on the side of better pass coverage.  And we didn't lose a safety for Vonn Bell.  He was a plus acquisition.  Dennard for Alexander is a tough one.  I really liked Dennard, but he would have commanded roughly $4-6 million more per year to retain than adding the younger, and more durable, Alexander.  Bynes is an overall superior player to Vigil.  

One thing that is often discounted when comparing player stats to player stats is how did that player's team fare with them?  Waynes, Bell, Bynes, Alexander, and Reader all came from playoff teams.  What did Vigil and Dre do in the past few years?  When the game is on  the line, opposing teams targeted them.  No longer.  

It wasn't robbing Peter to pay Paul.  It was cutting Peter because he couldn't get the job done in the only category that matters:  wins.  Paul has a better resume and therefor got the job.  Will it pay off?  I sure hope so, but you need to look beyond someone's PFF ratings and think about game situations and overall making plays to help the team.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

After looking at the haul after it's most likely done, I see a couple of points to be made about last season. First off, iirc, we had barely gotten our defensive coaching staff assembled before the combine. That's probably why we saw a bunch of former players familiar to the coaches. There wasn't much time to figure out much of a FA targeting strategy, plus there hadn't been many cuts to the current roster, if any. Second, it kind of looks like last year was a wasted roster evaluation to the schemes they wanted to run kinda year.

Now, it looks as though there was a definite and well thought out strategy as to who they targeted and they got aggressive in getting it done. Well done I say. The only question that remains is will it all come together and pay off, and will the coaching "look better" as a result of acquiring personnel better suited to their vision? Can't knock em for trying.

[McC]

(03-28-2020, 11:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This may sound odd, but a better rush defense will make it easier to pass defense.  Like I said, 3rd and 9 vs. 3rd and 2.

I seriously doubt that Dre should be on the side of better pass coverage.  And we didn't lose a safety for Vonn Bell.  He was a plus acquisition.  Dennard for Alexander is a tough one.  I really liked Dennard, but he would have commanded roughly $4-6 million more per year to retain than adding the younger, and more durable, Alexander.  Bynes is an overall superior player to Vigil.  

One thing that is often discounted when comparing player stats to player stats is how did that player's team fare with them?  Waynes, Bell, Bynes, Alexander, and Reader all came from playoff teams.  What did Vigil and Dre do in the past few years?  When the game is on  the line, opposing teams targeted them.  No longer.  

It wasn't robbing Peter to pay Paul.  It was cutting Peter because he couldn't get the job done in the only category that matters:  wins.  Paul has a better resume and therefor got the job.  Will it pay off?  I sure hope so, but you need to look beyond someone's PFF ratings and think about game situations and overall making plays to help the team.  

You're arguing with a troll.