Former Bengals QB Evaluates Burrow

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 10:52 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Yes, many people are making him in to the next coming when he has not even seen an NFL field.  Just go read this thread and many others.  There are no guarantees in the NFL.  Joe Burrow is 23 years old....has been at 2 schools....graduated from Ohio State...Could not win the starting job at OSU...Had one fantastic year and one average year...Odds are that everything fell into place at the right time as opposed to him being the greatest QB to enter the NFL in the last 10 years because of his gaudy stats on a very talented team.  Again, I hope he comes in and lights the NFL on fire but my expectations are tempered.  I am a huge OSU fan and followed the team and him for 3 years very closely.  He did get injured one year and that took him out of competition for the starting gig but he never really showed enough to be "the guy" at OSU.  One year does not make a player.  I am sorry if you do not like my point of view but I am just not going to be the rah rah guy thinking that one player is going to carry this franchise to the next level even though I hope it does.

Kind of seems like sour grapes to me. If he accomplished everything he did at LSU at OSU I feel like you might be singing a different tune...

[spazz70]

(03-28-2020, 10:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Kind of seems like sour grapes to me. If he accomplished everything he did at LSU at OSU I feel like you might be singing a different tune...

Exactly my point..He could not accomplish these things at OSU and was given every opportunity to do so with much better talent.  You are starting to catch on now!!  LSU is not OSU...what I mean is for example, LSU has been ranked in the final poll in the top 10 4 times in the last 10 years.  For OSU it has been 8 out of 10 years.  OSU is a perennial powerhouse, LSU is a program that is good but puts together a very, very good squad every 3-4 years or so.  I am in the camp that this past year was one of those years.  Everything clicked for them including Joe Burrow.

Again, I hope that Burrow is drafted and I hope that he comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  I am just not going to be surprised id it does not happen.  I do think that h is probably very happy of our off season so far and that will help him when he is ready to hit the field.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Akili Smith looked pretty awesome for one college season.

[QueenCity]

(03-28-2020, 11:13 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Exactly my point..He could not accomplish these things at OSU and was given every opportunity to do so with much better talent.  You are starting to catch on now!!  LSU is not OSU...what I mean is for example, LSU has been ranked in the final poll in the top 10 4 times in the last 10 years.  For OSU it has been 8 out of 10 years.  OSU is a perennial powerhouse, LSU is a program that is good but puts together a very, very good squad every 3-4 years or so.  I am in the camp that this past year was one of those years.  Everything clicked for them including Joe Burrow.

Again, I hope that Burrow is drafted and I hope that he comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  I am just not going to be surprised id it does not happen.  I do think that h is probably very happy of our off season so far and that will help him when he is ready to hit the field.

You know coaches have preferences all the time. Could it be simply Urban Meyer was stubborn and wanted to go with Haskins? I'll be honest I don't want a crap ton of Ohio St. games as I prefer to just watch my Wildcats but OSU was known primarily for their defense and running game mostly right? Can't imagine Meyer wanting to change his ways plus this quote should tell you everything you want to know about that "battle" Clearly Meyer was enamored with Haskins.

Plus Burrow broke his hand his sophomore year correct? So really we are faulting him for not winning the starting job his freshman season at OSU? Whatever man!

"Urban Meyer: "Dwayne Haskins is the best quarterback who ever played at Ohio State."

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 11:24 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Akili Smith looked pretty awesome for one college season.

LOL

Not in the SEC he didn’t. And not against a powerhouse like Clemson in the National championship game.

Smith’s best season in college (in the PAC 10 mind you) he only completed 58% of his passes and had 32 TD and 3700 yds.

To compare that to Burrow completing 76.3% of his passes, throwing 60 TD and 5600 yds is ridiculous.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 11:13 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Exactly my point..He could not accomplish these things at OSU and was given every opportunity to do so with much better talent.  You are starting to catch on now!!  LSU is not OSU...what I mean is for example, LSU has been ranked in the final poll in the top 10 4 times in the last 10 years.  For OSU it has been 8 out of 10 years.  OSU is a perennial powerhouse, LSU is a program that is good but puts together a very, very good squad every 3-4 years or so.  I am in the camp that this past year was one of those years.  Everything clicked for them including Joe Burrow.

Again, I hope that Burrow is drafted and I hope that he comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  I am just not going to be surprised id it does not happen.  I do think that h is probably very happy of our off season so far and that will help him when he is ready to hit the field.

Yeah, we’ve never seen great QB’s have to wait behind someone probably not as good as them to get their chance. College or pros. Never happens...

[McC]

(03-28-2020, 11:13 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Exactly my point..He could not accomplish these things at OSU and was given every opportunity to do so with much better talent.  You are starting to catch on now!!  LSU is not OSU...what I mean is for example, LSU has been ranked in the final poll in the top 10 4 times in the last 10 years.  For OSU it has been 8 out of 10 years.  OSU is a perennial powerhouse, LSU is a program that is good but puts together a very, very good squad every 3-4 years or so.  I am in the camp that this past year was one of those years.  Everything clicked for them including Joe Burrow.

Again, I hope that Burrow is drafted and I hope that he comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  I am just not going to be surprised id it does not happen.  I do think that h is probably very happy of our off season so far and that will help him when he is ready to hit the field.

LSU beat 7 top 10 teams.  Did OSU?  LSU stomped the shit out of the team that beat OSU.  This is not a history lesson.  It's about a guy who had the greatest college season of all time.   OSU fans are a really goofy bunch.  SMH.

Is it really a crime to be pumped about our next QB?  Why does he have to come with a disclaimer?

[fredtoast]

Everyone judges Burrow by what they have seen of him. Most people did not watch him play until this year. I am a big SEC fan so I saw him when he was not that great in 2018.

After watching what Burrow did in 2019 I really can't find anything to complain about. I am just not delusional about him like most people who never saw him play before 2019.

It looks like the Bengal might have really caught one of those cosmic breaks. This is the first time we have had the #1 pick in 18 years and it looks like we might get an elite talent at QB. But it is not a sure thing.

[McC]

I have to chuckle at the Bengal fan mentality.

So much bad shit has happened over the years that we must never allow ourselves to go all in on any celebration and we must be absolutely certain to never fully enjoy anything cuz something bad just has to be right around the corner.

Maybe if we sit around warning each other over and over again not to be too happy, when the next bad thing happens, we'll be ready for it and it won't hurt so bad.

Well, I'm here to tell you, folks, it doesn't work that way. Life doesn't work that way. Preparing for the hurt will in no way ease the pain.
You have to take your happy days when they come around and there is no such thing as hedging your bets against disappointment.

So, can we please agree that we've been sufficiently warned that as good as Joe Burrows appears to be, there is no guarantee it will translate to the next level and that we may indeed once again be disappointed?

If I promise not to go too all in, will people please stop cautioning me to expect the worst? I swear I'll only be a little excited about the future like a truly aware Bengal fan should be. I swear.

[spazz70]

(03-28-2020, 12:14 PM)McC Wrote: LSU beat 7 top 10 teams.  Did OSU?  LSU stomped the shit out of the team that beat OSU.  This is not a history lesson.  It's about a guy who had the greatest college season of all time.   OSU fans are a really goofy bunch.  SMH.

Is it really a crime to be pumped about our next QB?  Why does he have to come with a disclaimer?

You guys just keep on making my point for me!!!  I love it...Just sit back and think for a few minutes before answering.

A.  LSU, a team, while good in general but not a perennial powerhouse fielded an excellent team this year overall and everything clicked including the outstanding season by Joe Burrow.

B. Joe Burrow totally carried this team on his back and he is the sole reason that LSU went undefeated and won the national championship.

The reason I say the above is because Andy Dalton is always bashed on because he was not "the guy" to carry a team on his shoulders even though he showed in college that he could.

This is not really about OSU, it is about Joe Burrow not showing enough (albeit he did get injured one season) to start for OSU.  That is why I brought up OSU.  

I am pumped about him...Like I said, I hope he is drafted and comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-28-2020, 09:51 AM)spazz70 Wrote: You guys crack me up...And I am not defending Dalton necessarily but you are comparing years of watching Dalton compared to some highlight clips of Burrow, even just a few games maybe...And I am not bashing Burrow here but he has not taken one snap in the NFL, none of you have a clue of how he will react under the lights and on the big stage!!   I am sure that if you go and look at Dalton's tape from his senior year you will see the same attributes from him, as a matter of fact if you go watch the Rose Bowl when he beat Russell Wilson and Wisconsin you will see these same attributes.  You guys are making Burrow into a GOD before he even gets on an NFL field.  I hope is the next coming but do not be surprised if/when he struggles against the big boys.

(03-28-2020, 10:48 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: What are your criteria for a successful rookie season for Joe Burrow? 

In my post i stated i didnt expect greatness out of the gate. I expect something like Peyton Manning’s first year or Andy Dalton’s.

I watched the rose bowl where Dalton won the game. That was a big reason i wanted us to draft him in the second round. Dalton didnt do what Burrow did though. He didnt have a 10:1 Td to Int ratio. He didnt beat all the best teams in the Sec. Hr didnt win a national championship against elite talent.

if you cant get hyped about Burrows potential in the Nfl, thats cool. Just know i never said he’s gunna be the next Mahomes; I am saying i wouldnt be surprised. He’s got elite intangibles and enormous potential. I definitely could see him struggling out of the gae—as ive said before—because of a likely shortened offseason and bc it takes time to adjust to the pro game and develop chemistry with the team. But yes, i am excited about the prospect of drafting him. Why wouldnt i be? I still have not heard a legit reason not to be.

[Bengalstripes9]

(03-28-2020, 12:45 PM)spazz70 Wrote: You guys just keep on making my point for me!!!  I love it...Just sit back and think for a few minutes before answering.

A.  LSU, a team, while good in general but not a perennial powerhouse fielded an excellent team this year overall and everything clicked including the outstanding season by Joe Burrow.

B. Joe Burrow totally carried this team on his back and he is the sole reason that LSU went undefeated and won the national championship.

The reason I say the above is because Andy Dalton is always bashed on because he was not "the guy" to carry a team on his shoulders even though he showed in college that he could.

This is not really about OSU, it is about Joe Burrow not showing enough (albeit he did get injured one season) to start for OSU.  That is why I brought up OSU.  

I am pumped about him...Like I said, I hope he is drafted and comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  

You do realize that players get better in their career as they learn and grow and develop, right? In my mind what happened is towards the end of last year things started clicking for Burrow. He gained confidence and chemistry with his team and his place on it. Then going into this year he just blossomed.

He might not have been the guy at OSU because of injury getting in the way, bc OSU made the wrong call, or because he wasnt ready yet. Regardless of why, he grew and evolved as a player.

All these arguments about why only do we see it this year? Well, i think those arguments fail to account for players that get better as they learn and grow. Theres a lot of players that are the same/similar as a senior as they were as a sophomore. Burrow doesnt seem like one of those players; He seems like a player committed to learning and growing. Thats the kind of player i want.

[McC]

(03-28-2020, 12:45 PM)spazz70 Wrote: You guys just keep on making my point for me!!!  I love it...Just sit back and think for a few minutes before answering.

A.  LSU, a team, while good in general but not a perennial powerhouse fielded an excellent team this year overall and everything clicked including the outstanding season by Joe Burrow.

B. Joe Burrow totally carried this team on his back and he is the sole reason that LSU went undefeated and won the national championship.

The reason I say the above is because Andy Dalton is always bashed on because he was not "the guy" to carry a team on his shoulders even though he showed in college that he could.

This is not really about OSU, it is about Joe Burrow not showing enough (albeit he did get injured one season) to start for OSU.  That is why I brought up OSU.  

I am pumped about him...Like I said, I hope he is drafted and comes here and plays for 15 years at a very high level.  

Ancient history. 

And I fail to see how OSU being too stupid to realize what they had in Burrow or knowing how to utilize him can on any planet be considered a feather in their cap.  OSU fans say the cutest things.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 01:13 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: You do realize that players get better in their career as they learn and grow and develop, right? In my mind what happened is towards the end of last year things started clicking for Burrow. He gained confidence and chemistry with his team and his place on it. Then going into this year he just blossomed.

He might not have been the guy at OSU because of injury getting in the way, bc OSU made the wrong call, or because he wasnt ready yet. Regardless of why, he grew and evolved as a player.

All these arguments about why only do we see it this year? Well, i think those arguments fail to account for players that get better as they learn and grow. Theres a lot of players that are the same/similar as a senior as they were as a sophomore. Burrow doesnt seem like one of those players; He seems like a player committed to learning and growing. Thats the kind of player i want.

Great post. Athletes careers are not static. Especially college kids. Simple as that. There were obviously many factors that went into Burrow’s crazy season, but he himself deserves the majority of the credit. He was the one out there on the field balling out all season.

[spazz70]

(03-28-2020, 11:50 AM)QueenCity Wrote: You know coaches have preferences all the time. Could it be simply Urban Meyer was stubborn and wanted to go with Haskins? I'll be honest I don't want a crap ton of Ohio St. games as I prefer to just watch my Wildcats but OSU was known primarily for their defense and running game mostly right? Can't imagine Meyer wanting to change his ways plus this quote should tell you everything you want to know about that "battle" Clearly Meyer was enamored with Haskins.

Plus Burrow broke his hand his sophomore year correct? So really we are faulting him for not winning the starting job his freshman season at OSU? Whatever man!

"Urban Meyer: "Dwayne Haskins is the best quarterback who ever played at Ohio State."

First off NO, I do not believe that he was enamored with Haskins.  Haskins was just better.  End of story.

Second, and this should be easily comparable about the defense and run game....Let us compare.



Haskins 533 attempts, 70% completions, 4831 yards, 50 TDs (broke Drew Brees record), 6 INTs, 108 RYds, 4 RTDs

Burrow 527 attempts, 76% completions, 5672 yards, 60 TDs, 6 INTs, 368 RYDs, 5 RTDs

This is actually much closer than I thought, Haskins had a hell of a year.  He really struggled in his first year in the NFL though.
Also, if you look at the records, Haskins and Sam Bradford both had 50....This was the record for a Power 5 School (since everyone wants to bring that up). Also, Burrow played one more game and had 6 TDs in that game, 5 passing.

Team rushing
OSU 2481 yards, 24 TDs, 4.3 average on 570 rushes
LSU 2342 (I used 14 game average for comparison), 28 TDs (minus the on from the NCG to 14 game comparison). 4.9 average on 475 rushes (again adjusted to 14 games)

Again, not a huge difference here.  OSU did have much more rushing attempts but the average and everything else is pretty close.

Total scoring defense
OSU- 25th overall
LSU 32nd overall


Total scoring offense
OSU- 8th overall
LSU- 1st overall

Overall, these two teams and players were pretty comparable.  Even as an OSU fan I forgot how good of  a season Haskins had.  I also questioned last year if Haskins would translate to the NFL.

[McC]

(03-28-2020, 01:35 PM)spazz70 Wrote: First off NO, I do not believe that he was enamored with Haskins.  Haskins was just better.  End of story.

Second, and this should be easily comparable about the defense and run game....Let us compare.



Haskins 533 attempts, 70% completions, 4831 yards, 50 TDs (broke Drew Brees record), 6 INTs, 108 RYds, 4 RTDs

Burrow 527 attempts, 76% completions, 5672 yards, 60 TDs, 6 INTs, 368 RYDs, 5 RTDs

This is actually much closer than I thought, Haskins had a hell of a year.  He really struggled in his first year in the NFL though.
Also, if you look at the records, Haskins and Sam Bradford both had 50....This was the record for a Power 5 School (since everyone wants to bring that up). Also, Burrow played one more game and had 6 TDs in that game, 5 passing.

Team rushing
OSU 2481 yards, 24 TDs, 4.3 average on 570 rushes
LSU 2342 (I used 14 game average for comparison), 28 TDs (minus the on from the NCG to 14 game comparison). 4.9 average on 475 rushes (again adjusted to 14 games)

Again, not a huge difference here.  OSU did have much more rushing attempts but the average and everything else is pretty close.

Total scoring defense
OSU- 25th overall
LSU 32nd overall


Total scoring offense
OSU- 8th overall
LSU- 1st overall

Overall, these two teams and players were pretty comparable.  Even as an OSU fan I forgot how good of  a season Haskins had.  I also questioned last year if Haskins would translate to the NFL.

Really?  Still on the OSU thing? 

Now, let's talk about the title Haskins and OSU won. 

I realize Buckeye fans are still butt hurt about not being able to be the team LSU stomped in the title game but this is ridiculous.

[spazz70]

(03-28-2020, 01:13 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: You do realize that players get better in their career as they learn and grow and develop, right? In my mind what happened is towards the end of last year things started clicking for Burrow. He gained confidence and chemistry with his team and his place on it. Then going into this year he just blossomed.

He might not have been the guy at OSU because of injury getting in the way, bc OSU made the wrong call, or because he wasnt ready yet. Regardless of why, he grew and evolved as a player.

All these arguments about why only do we see it this year? Well, i think those arguments fail to account for players that get better as they learn and grow. Theres a lot of players that are the same/similar as a senior as they were as a sophomore. Burrow doesnt seem like one of those players; He seems like a player committed to learning and growing. Thats the kind of player i want.

Yes I do and that is scary...WHAT IF he is done growing?  WHAT IF he has hit his ceiling?  Teams draft players in later rounds because they are "raw" and young to develop because of their potential.  I am not being doom and gloom, just stating what may be possible.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 01:35 PM)spazz70 Wrote: First off NO, I do not believe that he was enamored with Haskins.  Haskins was just better.  End of story.

Second, and this should be easily comparable about the defense and run game....Let us compare.



Haskins 533 attempts, 70% completions, 4831 yards, 50 TDs (broke Drew Brees record), 6 INTs, 108 RYds, 4 RTDs

Burrow 527 attempts, 76% completions, 5672 yards, 60 TDs, 6 INTs, 368 RYDs, 5 RTDs

This is actually much closer than I thought, Haskins had a hell of a year.  He really struggled in his first year in the NFL though.
Also, if you look at the records, Haskins and Sam Bradford both had 50....This was the record for a Power 5 School (since everyone wants to bring that up). Also, Burrow played one more game and had 6 TDs in that game, 5 passing.

Team rushing
OSU 2481 yards, 24 TDs, 4.3 average on 570 rushes
LSU 2342 (I used 14 game average for comparison), 28 TDs (minus the on from the NCG to 14 game comparison). 4.9 average on 475 rushes (again adjusted to 14 games)

Again, not a huge difference here.  OSU did have much more rushing attempts but the average and everything else is pretty close.

Total scoring defense
OSU- 25th overall
LSU 32nd overall


Total scoring offense
OSU- 8th overall
LSU- 1st overall

Overall, these two teams and players were pretty comparable.  Even as an OSU fan I forgot how good of  a season Haskins had.  I also questioned last year if Haskins would translate to the NFL.

But where Burrow really separated himself (for the few that were still doubters anyway) was what he did to the #1 defense Clemson team in the NCG.

31/49 463 yds 5 TD 0 Int another TD on the ground, and oh btw he played the entire second half with bruised ribs. There is just no rational way to downplay what the kid did.

[spazz70]

(03-28-2020, 01:40 PM)McC Wrote: Really?  Still on the OSU thing? 

Now, let's talk about the title Haskins and OSU won. 

I realize Buckeye fans are still butt hurt about not being able to be the team LSU stomped in the title game but this is ridiculous.

If you read the reply you would understand why I posted this.  It was responding to Haskins relying on defense and a running game which my post shows that is not the case.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-28-2020, 01:43 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Yes I do and that is scary...WHAT IF he is done growing?  WHAT IF he has hit his ceiling?  Teams draft players in later rounds because they are "raw" and young to develop because of their potential.  I am not being doom and gloom, just stating what may be possible.

If his ceiling is to be better than all his peers and win championships I’m good with that.