Who is "your guy"?

[McC]

(04-12-2020, 09:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m trying to be realistic about “my guy” being there when we pick. Mims would be great, but will he be there at 33? Doubtful.

I'm not sure how reliable various media outlet mocks are as an indicator of how teams actually have players rated, but there is a virtual consensus among them that Mims will be gone in the first.

I get about a half dozen sent to my phone a day and very few of them have him still there in the second.

[BobJones4980]

(04-12-2020, 09:01 PM)McC Wrote: Well, there is always a context which is pretty much laid out in the title of a thread.  In this case, the context is Who is your guy?

What is wrong with another guy's guy?  Not so much.  Do you really think you're gonna talk him out of his guy and into yours?

Thats also not what I was doing though, if you look back at the post he brought up Mims. I just responded saying I was more of a Mims guy and gave reasons why. Just having a discussion about why I don't think he was the type of WR we need not trying to convince him to like another guy. Mims just happened to be the one he brought up thats the type of WR to help this team.

I mean is this thread meant to be a list or do we wanna have a discussion about "our guys"?

[Gdale_Bengal]

Mims or Higgins would be great. I know they could replace AJ, but I think they are planning to make AJ retire a bengal

[McC]

(04-12-2020, 09:34 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Mims or Higgins would be great. I know they could replace AJ, but I think they are planning to make AJ retire a bengal

I would love to have another guy like AJ.  How great would it be to send out two of them out there?  And Boyd, the king of third down, too.  And then you have Ross as the 4th guy.  That's a lot of covering to do.

Now, if they're wanting to work out of 5 WR sets, they'd better have at the very least, a solid line in front of him.  I still say they can talk up Hart all they want but they'd still love to upgrade RT and if one of the top OT's are there at 33, it would hard to pass up on him.

[McC]

(04-12-2020, 09:30 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Thats also not what I was doing though, if you look back at the post he brought up Mims. I just responded saying I was more of a Mims guy and gave reasons why. Just having a discussion about why I don't think he was the type of WR we need not trying to convince him to like another guy. Mims just happened to be the one he brought up thats the type of WR to help this team.

I mean is this thread meant to be a list or do we wanna have a discussion about "our guys"?

The reasons why you like Mims are the very reasons that will likely make him a first rounder.  I keep seeing Packers and I've seen Vikings too.   There are enough teams looking for WRs that he probably won't make it to us.

I think you'd have to get up into the early 20s to get him.

[BobJones4980]

(04-12-2020, 09:58 PM)McC Wrote: The reasons why you like Mims are the very reasons that will likely make him a first rounder.  I keep seeing Packers and I've seen Vikings too.   There are enough teams looking for WRs that he probably won't make it to us.

I think you'd have to get up into the early 20s to get him.

Don't doubt that but they have a ton of guys ranked right in that area it seems so you never know, honestly not a must have for us anyway. 

It would be nice to get a top WR for Burrow considering everyone not named Tyler Boyd has trouble staying healthy but if we can get equal or better value at LB or OL in round 2-3 then Id go that route and start looking at WR's in 4.

I have a fear that they think the Oline is fine though and the first 3 rounds may consist of QB,WR, and LB. I think they made it clear LB is a need this offseason when they went after a couple of the top guys. I could see us passing on some OL prospects unless they fall in love with an OG. Hope Not.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-12-2020, 09:58 PM)McC Wrote: The reasons why you like Mims are the very reasons that will likely make him a first rounder.  I keep seeing Packers and I've seen Vikings too.   There are enough teams looking for WRs that he probably won't make it to us.

I think you'd have to get up into the early 20s to get him.

If Mims were truly "a next AJ Green" type of player, wouldn't you think that he'd be listed as going top 5, or at least top 10 overall?  But, he's not.  The reason why?  AJ Green had an NFL rating of 7.5, while Mims is a 6.33.  Why the disparity in NFL ratings?  Because Mims played in a no-defense conference, and AJ Green was a human highlight reel in the toughest football conference in the Nation, despite running 0.12 seconds slower..

[McC]

(04-12-2020, 11:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If Mims were truly "a next AJ Green" type of player, wouldn't you think that he'd be listed as going top 5, or at least top 10 overall?  But, he's not.  The reason why?  AJ Green had an NFL rating of 7.5, while Mims is a 6.33.  Why the disparity in NFL ratings?  Because Mims played in a no-defense conference, and AJ Green was a human highlight reel in the toughest football conference in the Nation, despite running 0.12 seconds slower..

I don't think anybody's really saying he is the next AJ Green, just that he resembles him in size and agility and large catch radius.  Saying he is an AJ type of player is not necessarily saying he's as good. 

Call him a flawed but faster version.  Being around AJ would probably be good for addressing his flaws, most of which seem to be fixable.  Maybe he's more of the next Chris Henry.  And just think back to how good it was with Chad, TJ and Slim.

A lot people seem to like him.

[*Synric*]

Denzel Mims is going round one.

He has tape, production, measurements, and testing... and most importantly for the 2020 draft he was the star of the Senior Bowl when there will be no more interacting with teams.


Also if you are going to compare him do it right. He isn't AJ Green...hes that other guy Julio Jones.

Edit: If the Bengals go WR at #33 I wouldnt hate Laviska Shanault aka Percy Harvin.

[BengalHawk62]

AJ Espenesa


That’s it. He’s my guy. Just hope and pray he doesn’t go to the Ravens or shitsburgh.

[Bengal Dude]

I've tried avoiding have the "my guy" in the draft since it always seems to backfire. I watch them go to division rivals, or they're available at our pick and we proceed to pass on them. It gets frustrating to watch. With that said, a player I really like that I'm ready to watch land somewhere else is Akeem Davis-Gaither.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-13-2020, 12:25 AM)Synric Wrote: Denzel Mims is going round one.

He has tape, production, measurements, and testing... and most importantly for the 2020 draft he was the star of the Senior Bowl when there will be no more interacting with teams.


Also if you are going to compare him do it right. He isn't AJ Green...hes that other guy Julio Jones.

Edit: If the Bengals go WR at #33 I wouldnt hate Laviska Shanault aka Percy Harvin.

What would you think about taking Pittman if he’s there in the 3rd?

[CJD]

I wouldn't necessarily say I have "a guy." The best I could come up with is Tee Higgins, who I'm significantly higher on than most people. I see people say he may be a reach at 33. To me, we'd be blessed to get such a good receiver in the 2nd round. He's smooth, he's got incredible hands, he's a long strider and he can go up and get the ball. If he were a masterful toe tapper with better hands against the press, he'd be AJ Green.

People have compared him to Auden Tate (big, slow possession receiver with good hands) saying we need a quicker, deep route guy, but I just don't see possession receiver with Higgins. He runs in the 4.5s, which is what Green ran in and his route running is crisp.

With that said, I am not dead set on taking Higgins because I know LB and Oline are bigger needs for us. So I just settled on "We should not exit the top 3 rounds without one of the top 12 receivers."

Those top 12 receivers being:
Jeudy
Lamb
Riggs
Jefferson
Shenault
Higgins
Reagor
Pittman
Aiyuk
Mims
Claypool
Hamler

There are so many good WRs in this class, I'd be shocked if one of them is not available at 65 and I think we need to take one. I love Pittman and Higgins as successors to Green. I am really high on Aiyuk and Reagor as replacements for Ross. And Shenault has a very very interesting skill set, although I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm worried our playcallers aren't good enough to fully take advantage of his abilities.

Jefferson is a great player and his connection with Burrow is uncanny. The only reason I prefer others over him is because we already have a slot WR in Boyd. Jefferson would be wasted here (or he'd waste Boyd). Which is a shame. But if the coaches are confident that they could make Jefferson work outside, then I'd support that pick at 33 as well.

I know a lot of people are high on Mims. I'm so-so on him. I am always weary of guys who start out as 3rd or 4th round prospects who become "first round locks" because of a week of practices and a 40 yard dash time. Mims struggled to create separation in college and relied on a lot of subtle pass interference to make some of his best catches (watch his tape. He pushes off a lot. It wasn't called in college often, but the NFL could be more strict about it).

For that same reason, I am weary of Claypool, as he was being called a 5th-6th round prospect who may need to convert to tight end before he ran a surprising 40 time at the combine. And then, suddenly, he became a 2nd round prospect. I hate that.

And then Hamler has all the talent in the world, but he's undersized and he has a drops problem.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2020, 06:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You did read that Pittman has essentially the same speed as AJ Green, right?  Tearing down the guy that I'm supporting, just because you prefer another is not a sound argument.  Mims has great speed, yet Pittman has a higher grade from the NFL than Mims.  

Mims has that knock on him that he is coming from Baylor, but what he did at the Senior Bowl really elevated him.  I could see Oakland, er LA, er Las Vegas jumping on him.  I am still holding out hope for Queen to be there for us at #33, but I would really like to see either Mims or Pittman in stripes as our WR. 

I believe the Bengals are very high on Bryan Edwards, from South Carolina.  I don't think they take him at Rd 2, but if he is there at Rd 3...

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2020, 09:01 PM)McC Wrote: Well, there is always a context which is pretty much laid out in the title of a thread.  In this case, the context is Who is your guy?

What is wrong with another guy's guy?  Not so much.  Do you really think you're gonna talk him out of his guy and into yours?

True, I would have been using the mythical banhammer emoji if anyone put down Dugger....

If I were more skilled at video editing (read, if I had any skills at all), I would post a clip of one of his highlight reels where a RB is running wide, and is beating everyone to the edge.  You see Dugger shadowing him.  As the RB turns upfield, he sees daylight but then notices the speeding bullet bearing down on him laterally.  What happens next had me spitting coffee all over the screen.   No way does this RB want anything to do with Dugger, so he begins to angle to the sideline.  Dugger unbelievably found another gear and sped up.  The RB now has completely given up and turns to the sidelines to completely avoid Dugger, but Dugger gets him right before he gets out of bounds and smokes him from the back.  Since the RB is already running fast to the sideline (directly), when Dugger hits him it almost looks like a video game speed disappearance of the RB.  He just flies 10 yards out of bounds and in to some equipment.  It almost looks animated how the guy is running and then ZOOM!  And he disappears from the screen.  I couldn't stop laughing.  It was some "Waterboy" shit.  

Seriously, I am ok with discussing each other's "guys", but I want to hear who else folks absolutely love.  There might be a guy I have overlooked or should give a second look.  I also like knowing what everyone sees as the best way to improve the team.

And thanks for not douchebagging me with 1000 posts that just read:  "Burrow".  I meant to put that in the original post...of course we all love that guy.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2020, 09:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I definitely don’t want him to replace Boyd, but I just personally like Pittman a lot. Might not be the best “fit” as far as replacing AJ, but we’re likely not doing that with a 2nd or 3rd round pick anyway. Pittman would be a great choice if he’s there in the 3rd. Having 2 guys as reliable as Boyd would be a good problem to have. And Pittman’s ceiling might be a little higher tbh.

If Pittman is there at our pick in Rd 3, I think he has a really good chance at being the pick.  Like Sunset, I see a lot of AJ Green in his game, and I like his character as well.  He did really well, with a freshman QB, last year and USC didn't lose a lot of games because they couldn't score..it was more a function of a poor defense.

I don't see him as replacing Boyd, as he is not a slot WR.  FWIW, I think Boyd is going to have a tremendous season with Burrow as QB if Ross and Green are out there as well.  He will have a lot of space to work in underneath.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-12-2020, 11:20 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Don't doubt that but they have a ton of guys ranked right in that area it seems so you never know, honestly not a must have for us anyway. 

It would be nice to get a top WR for Burrow considering everyone not named Tyler Boyd has trouble staying healthy but if we can get equal or better value at LB or OL in round 2-3 then Id go that route and start looking at WR's in 4.

I have a fear that they think the Oline is fine though and the first 3 rounds may consist of QB,WR, and LB. I think they made it clear LB is a need this offseason when they went after a couple of the top guys. I could see us passing on some OL prospects unless they fall in love with an OG. Hope Not.

I get it, man.  But I think I am with the Bengals on this one...unless there is a Quentin Nelson-type that falls to Rd 2; an absolute plug and play RG (or a RT for that matter) that slides to them, I don't see the Bengals going outside the QB, and then LB/WR (in Rd 2), and then maybe my guy in Rd 3 if they get the WR in Rd 2.  I believe there is a pretty big drop off at LB once you get past Queen, Murray, and Baun in Rd 2 and I hope they don't reach in Rd 3.

Blah, now after all that babbling, to your point about why the line won't likely be addressed before Rd 4.  Take it position by position:

LT-  Jonah Williams represents a MASSIVE upgrade over starting LT last year.  Glenn was injured and the Bengals started Andre Smith and played some John Jerry at LT.  The perfect storm.  I don't care if Williams has not played a down in the NFL.  He was a consensus first round pick vs. two scrap heap guys at the most important position on the line.  

LG-  I was surprised they started Michael Jordan as a 4th round rookie, but Boling's retirement prompted them to give the guy trial by fire.  He faired poorly before being injured, but so did the entire line.  Once the coaches changed their scheme, and he came back healthy, he actually graded out very well.  Year two should at the very least be an upgrade over starting him as a rookie in a failing scheme.

C- Hopkins started out really well and faded down the stretch.  I take that with a grain of salt as he was playing with a MASH unit around him at times.  Once this line gets a little time together...they will only improve.  People forget that the line was different in every spot but one last year at the onset.

RG- I admittedly don't know as much about XSF, but I liked what I heard from Coach Taylor in the interviews last week:  He is a big, strong guy with great mobility, that they felt performed VERY well off the bench against some of the top talent in the league (when he played).  He is clearly a better fit for what they want to do than John Miller was last year.  I won't call it an upgrade until we see him play more, but we knew what we had in Miller, and it was just average at best.  

RT- Everyone's favorite punching bag.  Heck, even Fred made a post documenting his improvements from year 1 to year 2 with the Bengals.  He cut down on penalties and sacks allowed.  The guy is STILL just 25 years old.  And here is the kicker:  If he doesn't take the next steps to be at least an above average RT, Fred Johnson will likely be the starting RT and Hart could be relegated to backup or even released if they draft someone they like.  Johnson performed admirably in his start at LT and that can't be easy coming off the scrap heap to execute.  Either way, the needle is pointing up at RT.

That's all five positions on the offensive line.  The Bengals didn't have any talent retire (Cowboys) or lose key talent to FA.  They improved essentially every spot.  Plus, they have a QB with great pocket awareness and mobility.  I think the needs at WR and LB far outweigh that of our offensive line right now.  Does that mean I still don't want Damien Lewis in Rd 4?  Hell, no.  Improve spots if you can and get quality depth.  Look for an OT to develop, too, in the later rounds.  But our team improves more with WR and LB drafted over the offensive line.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-13-2020, 12:25 AM)Synric Wrote: Denzel Mims is going round one.

He has tape, production, measurements, and testing... and most importantly for the 2020 draft he was the star of the Senior Bowl when there will be no more interacting with teams.


Also if you are going to compare him do it right. He isn't AJ Green...hes that other guy Julio Jones.

Edit: If the Bengals go WR at #33 I wouldnt hate Laviska Shanault aka Percy Harvin.

This.  He broke a lot of ankles and he was thought to have a very limited route tree, but he really took to coaching and showed a ton of ability.  To Sunset's earlier point about the conference competition, rising up and being a player against the best seniors in the country (minus one Joe Burrow) helps to answer a lot of questions.  Dugger did the same thing.  As did Ben Bartch.  

It is amazing how much the Senior Bowl can impact a player's draft status.  I think it was the guard from Oregon, Shane Lemieux, that got absolutely owned throughout the week.  Feel bad for the guy...I mean, just imagine if you are having a tough week and then your stock plummets because you get owned by the top defensive talent in the draft.  Ouch.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-13-2020, 12:44 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: AJ Espenesa


That’s it.  He’s my guy.  Just hope and pray he doesn’t go to the Ravens or shitsburgh.

Good call.  Really like him as well.  He fits here and at pitt.  They will have to address losing Bud Dupree...or at least I think they lost him? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-13-2020, 09:32 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I wouldn't necessarily say I have "a guy." The best I could come up with is Tee Higgins, who I'm significantly higher on than most people. I see people say he may be a reach at 33. To me, we'd be blessed to get such a good receiver in the 2nd round. He's smooth, he's got incredible hands, he's a long strider and he can go up and get the ball. If he were a masterful toe tapper with better hands against the press, he'd be AJ Green.

People have compared him to Auden Tate (big, slow possession receiver with good hands) saying we need a quicker, deep route guy, but I just don't see possession receiver with Higgins. He runs in the 4.5s, which is what Green ran in and his route running is crisp.

With that said, I am not dead set on taking Higgins because I know LB and Oline are bigger needs for us. So I just settled on "We should not exit the top 3 rounds without one of the top 12 receivers."

Those top 12 receivers being:
Jeudy
Lamb
Riggs
Jefferson
Shenault
Higgins
Reagor
Pittman
Aiyuk
Mims
Claypool
Hamler

There are so many good WRs in this class, I'd be shocked if one of them is not available at 65 and I think we need to take one. I love Pittman and Higgins as successors to Green. I am really high on Aiyuk and Reagor as replacements for Ross. And Shenault has a very very interesting skill set, although I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm worried our playcallers aren't good enough to fully take advantage of his abilities.

Jefferson is a great player and his connection with Burrow is uncanny. The only reason I prefer others over him is because we already have a slot WR in Boyd. Jefferson would be wasted here (or he'd waste Boyd). Which is a shame. But if the coaches are confident that they could make Jefferson work outside, then I'd support that pick at 33 as well.

I know a lot of people are high on Mims. I'm so-so on him. I am always weary of guys who start out as 3rd or 4th round prospects who become "first round locks" because of a week of practices and a 40 yard dash time. Mims struggled to create separation in college and relied on a lot of subtle pass interference to make some of his best catches (watch his tape. He pushes off a lot. It wasn't called in college often, but the NFL could be more strict about it).

For that same reason, I am weary of Claypool, as he was being called a 5th-6th round prospect who may need to convert to tight end before he ran a surprising 40 time at the combine. And then, suddenly, he became a 2nd round prospect. I hate that.

And then Hamler has all the talent in the world, but he's undersized and he has a drops problem.

Careful now...Claypool was almost "my guy".  

I really like him and I am ready to have some ($^@@% bullies on my team.  That guy will pancake block, flatten a safety on a slant route, and has incredible agility and speed for a big man.  I have no idea why I am seemingly one of the only people that is high on him.  But that isn't the reason for my reply.

I think you missed a WR that the Bengals are pretty high on:  Bryan Edwards, out of South Carolina.  He literally started competing in the SEC at AGE 17....that's ridiculous.  I think if he is there in Rd 3, and they got the LB in Rd 2, he might be the pick.