Dalton Draft Pick Trade Bait

[kevin]

Various sources on Google Internet News of Dalton say Bengals just spent a ton in free agency and would love to dump his contract and Bengals can't afford Dalton and Burrow. There are a few rumors both will be on team, but I believe the stories by Sports Illustrated and such that Bengals just can't afford Dalton and Burrow after their free agent spending spree.

Around early March I heard ESPN or NFL Network saying Dalton to The Bears. Now rumors are Dalton to Jacksonville.

If some team steps up to take Dalton's contract for 2020, and Bengals save that money plus get a draft pick. look for it to happen. Don't expect Dalton starting and Burrow on the bench or vise versa. The Bengals can't spend that much money at QB and Rebuild other needed positions on this 2 win team, and 2018 was pretty bad also, hence Marvin and all coaches fired.

Be it New Day or Seize The Day, The firings and rebuild started end of 2018. I believe reports that Bengals can't afford Dalton and Burrow. If The Bears or Jaguars or any team makes an offer for Dalton, he is gone. Trades do indeed happen at Draft Time.

Here is where Bengals can add that extra draft pick many are wanting to trade back for. No trade down, just trade Dalton. Keep all those 1st picks in every round for quick rebuild. Paul Brown would not trade any of the top picks in each round. He would trade a very expensive now #2 QB while drafting a QB with first pick in draft. Some kind of draft pick would come to Bengals,

If you combine what they would pay Dalton and Burrow, it is too much. The #1 pick in the draft salary is up there, especially when a QB. Dalton salary is up there. They can't cook the books enough to keep both salary cap hits. Dalton for a Draft Pick is very possible.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-14-2020, 04:06 AM)kevin Wrote: Various sources on Google Internet News of Dalton say Bengals just spent a ton in free agency and would love to dump his contract and Bengals can't afford Dalton and Burrow.  There are a few rumors both will be on team, but I believe the stories by Sports Illustrated and such that Bengals just can't afford Dalton and Burrow after their free agent spending spree.

Around early March I heard ESPN or NFL Network saying Dalton to The Bears.  Now rumors are Dalton to Jacksonville.  

If some team steps up to take Dalton's contract for 2020,  and Bengals save that money plus get a draft pick. look for it to happen.  Don't expect Dalton starting and Burrow on the bench or vise versa.  The Bengals can't spend that much money at QB and Rebuild other needed positions on this 2 win team, and 2018 was pretty bad also, hence Marvin and all coaches fired.  

Be it New Day or Seize The Day,  The firings and rebuild started end of 2018. I believe reports that Bengals can't afford Dalton and Burrow.  If The Bears or Jaguars or any team makes an offer for Dalton, he is gone. Trades do indeed happen at Draft Time.

Here is where Bengals can add that extra draft pick many are wanting to trade back for.  No trade down, just trade Dalton. Keep all those 1st picks in every round for quick rebuild. Paul Brown would not trade any of the top picks in each round.  He would trade a very expensive now #2 QB while drafting a QB with first pick in draft.  Some kind of draft pick would come to Bengals,

If you combine what they would pay Dalton and Burrow, it is too much.  The #1 pick in the draft salary is up there, especially when a QB.  Dalton salary is up there.   They can't cook the books enough to keep both salary cap hits.  Dalton for a Draft Pick is very possible.

I think you probably correct that Dalton will not be with the Bengals next year.... the draft is going to play out and it probably won't workout for every team with their QB situation.. especially after first couple rounds.. so i could see a trade of Dalton for a draft pick maybe after 2nd/3rd round.. 

[Schmitbuck]

(04-14-2020, 04:06 AM)kevin Wrote: Here is where Bengals can add that extra draft pick many are wanting to trade back for.  No trade down, just trade Dalton. Keep all those 1st picks in every round for quick rebuild. Paul Brown would not trade any of the top picks in each round.  He would trade a very expensive now #2 QB while drafting a QB with first pick in draft.  Some kind of draft pick would come to Bengals,

I don't get pigeonholing yourself into not trading back no matter what. How about they being open to both trading Dalton & trading down? There isn't much difference between picking 1st in a round vs picking 5th in a round after round one. It's not like their draft board has only 6 players on it after Burrow. 

I agree with you on getting rid of Dalton. Unfortunately, I don't see much of a market for him. We have to keep our fingers crossed that New England and Jacksonville get skunked on a QB in rounds 1 & 2. Otherwise, I think he's cut. 

[bengals1969]

(04-14-2020, 06:42 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I don't get pigeonholing yourself into not trading back no matter what. How about they being open to both trading Dalton & trading down? There isn't much difference between picking 1st in a round vs picking 5th in a round after round one. It's not like their draft board has only 6 players on it after Burrow. 

I agree with you on getting rid of Dalton. Unfortunately, I don't see much of a market for him. We have to keep our fingers crossed that New England and Jacksonville get skunked on a QB in rounds 1 & 2. Otherwise, I think he's cut. 

This situation is of no concern to me and isn’t a big deal. The Bengals are free to dump him and gain $17 million in cap space. The Bengals aren’t trapped in Cap hell and can easily accommodate all draft picks and extensions should they cut Dalton. In other words, Dalton is manageable.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

They don't need Dalton's salary off the books so much as they need another mid-round pick to try and solidify the LBer group.

Trading Dalton (our only expendable player with any value) for a mid-round pick to use on LB allows us to target impact players in the second and third rather than filling a need.

Remember Dalton's $17m is only on the books for another year whereas drafting a linebacker in the middle of the third (where they are value) to back-up and then replace Bynes will hopefully solve a problem with a cost controlled solution for the next 4 years. Germaine Pratt costs $4m for 4 years because draft picks are cost controlled. Josh Bynes, a bargain bucket free agency one year stop gap, costs more per year at $1.6m. Drafting someone in the mid-rounds is not only cheaper than signing a 4th tier free agent but they also have more upside!

Getting a pick for Dalton also helps you over 4 or 5 years. Dumping Dalton's contract only helps you one year. Unfortunately the Bears' lack of draft picks (only 2 in the first 3 rounds) stymied a Dalton to Chicago trade but Jacksonville have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds as do the Patriots (although 2 of those are 3rd round compensatory picks making a trade trickier). With no compensatory picks this year or next, it's vital that the Bengals get something for Dalton.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Getting pretty slim as to who would trade for dalton. Bears traded a 4 for foles, now Minshew can be the #1. Mitch has real competition and that 4 looks real good right now.

NE is the most likely team to trade with all there picks but I read that they only want him if he is cut because they couldn’t afford his salary.

Bengals DONT WANT to keep his salary on the books but they have just enough to keep him and sign draft picks right now. If they free up that space they could work on Mixons extension or sign more FA

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-14-2020, 09:14 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Getting pretty slim as to who would trade for dalton. Bears traded a 4 for foles, now Minshew can be the #1. Mitch has real competition and that 4 looks real good right now.

NE is the most likely team to trade with all there picks but I read that they only want him if he is cut because they couldn’t afford his salary.

Bengals DONT WANT to keep his salary on the books but they have just enough to keep him and sign draft picks right now. If they free up that space they could work on Mixons extension or sign more FA

What FAs are still out there that would be an upgrade?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2020, 09:14 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Getting pretty slim as to who would trade for dalton. Bears traded a 4 for foles, now Minshew can be the #1. Mitch has real competition and that 4 looks real good right now.

NE is the most likely team to trade with all there picks but I read that they only want him if he is cut because they couldn’t afford his salary.

Bengals DONT WANT to keep his salary on the books but they have just enough to keep him and sign draft picks right now. If they free up that space they could work on Mixons extension or sign more FA

No they don't.
The estimated cost for the draft picks is expected to be about $12 mill, which is about $3 mill higher than their current salary cap.
They could keep Dalton and still sign all those picks, but they would need to cut/restructure someone else then.

[TecmoBengals]

Would a team trade for Dalton or sign one of Newton or Winston? I don't think we pull off a draft day trade. I anticipate Dalton is released shortly after the draft.

[Luvnit2]

(04-14-2020, 09:33 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Would a team trade for Dalton or sign one of Newton or Winston?  I don't think we pull off a draft day trade.  I anticipate Dalton is released shortly after the draft.

I think we should try and trade Dalton, even if it is in training camp. We don't have to be in any hurry, the money will be for a Mixon extension for 2021. Also keep in mind, if we do trade/cut AD, we have no viable back up so all the money spent in free agency goes down the drain if Burrow is hurt. We go down in flames and player like AJ, Carlos and Geno get a year older.

[Whatever]

(04-14-2020, 09:22 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: What FAs are still out there that would be an upgrade?

Jason Peters

[spazz70]

(04-14-2020, 09:14 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Getting pretty slim as to who would trade for dalton. Bears traded a 4 for foles, now Minshew can be the #1. Mitch has real competition and that 4 looks real good right now.

NE is the most likely team to trade with all there picks but I read that they only want him if he is cut because they couldn’t afford his salary.

Bengals DONT WANT to keep his salary on the books but they have just enough to keep him and sign draft picks right now. If they free up that space they could work on Mixons extension or sign more FA

NE is still the most likely place but it has nothing or very little to do with Dalton's salary.  The Bengals gave Dalton permission to seek out a trade.  That means that his agent can talk to any team and ask what needs to get done to facilitate the trade.  Let's say Dalton's agent goes to Billicheat and asks.  Bill says well, we will give the Bengals a 4th round pick but Dalton needs to take a contract for 3 years at $10m per year.  Now, there 2 options on the table.  Will the Bengals take a 4th?  Will Dalton and his agent take the new deal in the new contract?  There are 3 parties involved.  Something like this could still happen on draft day, most likely going in to day 3.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-14-2020, 09:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: No they don't.
The estimated cost for the draft picks is expected to be about $12 mill, which is about $3 mill higher than their current salary cap.
They could keep Dalton and still sign all those picks, but they would need to cut/restructure someone else then.

Whilst the draft picks may count for $12m, with the exception of the first round pick those draft picks invariably push off more expensive players from the back of the roster so it's usually a cost-neutral exercise, if not an actual saving.

e.g. If they sign a 4th round guard ($750k) that pushes out Alex Redmond and saves $1.3m net.
If they sign a 6th round TE ($660k) who pushes out Cethan Carter that saves $1.4m net.
If they sign a UDFA LB on a rookie minimum who pushes out Jordan Evans that saves about $0.2m, even after his dead cap hit ($39,000).

They can upgrade the team and save money in the process. This is why draft picks are so valuable and why teams like Patriots hoard them.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-14-2020, 10:07 AM)Whatever Wrote: Jason Peters

I don't suppose anyone knows what sort of deal he's looking for?

Is he open to playing for a 2 and 14 team?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2020, 11:02 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Whilst the draft picks may count for $12m, with the exception of the first round pick those draft picks invariably push off more expensive players from the back of the roster so it's usually a cost-neutral exercise, if not an actual saving.

e.g. If they sign a 4th round guard ($750k) that pushes out Alex Redmond and saves $1.3m net.
If they sign a 6th round TE ($660k) who pushes out Cethan Carter that saves $1.4m net.
If they sign a UDFA LB on a rookie minimum who pushes out Jordan Evans that saves about $0.2m, even after his dead cap hit ($39,000).

They can upgrade the team and save money in the process. This is why draft picks are so valuable and why teams like Patriots hoard them.

It can but a team also typically reserves $2-5 mill for injuries, which the team won't have even if those back-end players are removed once draft picks come on.

[JSR18]

(04-14-2020, 09:14 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Getting pretty slim as to who would trade for dalton. Bears traded a 4 for foles, now Minshew can be the #1. Mitch has real competition and that 4 looks real good right now.

NE is the most likely team to trade with all there picks but I read that they only want him if he is cut because they couldn’t afford his salary.

Bengals DONT WANT to keep his salary on the books but they have just enough to keep him and sign draft picks right now. If they free up that space they could work on Mixons extension or sign more FA

Unless the Jags new OC (Jay Gruden, who has said he wants Dalton) jumps up and down and forces the Jags hand. They may give up a 4th... 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-14-2020, 11:02 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Whilst the draft picks may count for $12m, with the exception of the first round pick those draft picks invariably push off more expensive players from the back of the roster so it's usually a cost-neutral exercise, if not an actual saving.

e.g. If they sign a 4th round guard ($750k) that pushes out Alex Redmond and saves $1.3m net.
If they sign a 6th round TE ($660k) who pushes out Cethan Carter that saves $1.4m net.
If they sign a UDFA LB on a rookie minimum who pushes out Jordan Evans that saves about $0.2m, even after his dead cap hit ($39,000).

They can upgrade the team and save money in the process. This is why draft picks are so valuable and why teams like Patriots hoard them.

More likely that they draft one of the small school safeties (I want Dugger) and they can release Shawn Williams.  I don't want to see this, but they could also move off Gio.  

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2020, 09:21 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: More likely that they draft one of the small school safeties (I want Dugger) and they can release Shawn Williams.  I don't want to see this, but they could also move off Gio.  

Not sure if you meant it this way, but I don't understand the logic of wanting to get rid of Shawn Williams before Gio.

Williams has been more impactful the past couple years compared to Gio.
Gio hasn't had 500+ yards from scrimmage in a season since 2017.
Williams has had 6 INTs, 12 PDs, and 224 tackles the past two years.
Their cap hit is about the same too, so it's not like Williams is making a lot more than Gio.

I'd much rather get rid of a backup RB before someone who has started at SS for the past 4 years.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-15-2020, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not sure if you meant it this way, but I don't understand the logic of wanting to get rid of Shawn Williams before Gio.

Williams has been more impactful the past couple years compared to Gio.
Gio hasn't had 500+ yards from scrimmage in a season since 2017.
Williams has had 6 INTs, 12 PDs, and 224 tackles the past two years.
Their cap hit is about the same too, so it's not like Williams is making a lot more than Gio.

I'd much rather get rid of a backup RB before someone who has started at SS for the past 4 years.

Gio might become a whole lot more important if Mixon holds out...

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2020, 11:42 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Gio might become a whole lot more important if Mixon holds out...

He might, but you don't need Gio specifically. Use a late round pick, Trayveon Williams, or go get one of the many good (better?) RBs still out there in FA. Backup RBs are a dime a dozen.