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(04-18-2020, 12:15 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: NO WAY IN HELL.. WOW.. way more yes's than no's I'm surprised. You wont found a playmaker like Mixon at RB. He is a pro bowl runningback. We'd be stupid to let him go.
Mixon hasn't reached that ceiling yet. I had to think on it hard before voting yes, but a 2nd rounder is a high pick and this
was before reading about the new CBA where I voted here. In the new CBA not only does a player like Mixon who is in the
last year of his rookie contract get nothing for holding out, he gets fined. He won't hold out, I would change my vote now
to no.
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No.
Mixon is great.
Pay the man.
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(04-18-2020, 09:56 AM)treee Wrote: Guaranteeing buckets of money to a RB is a recipe for disaster.
He’s right you know
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You trade him for a second in a heartbeat. He’s going to get a huge contract and paying running backs are a waste of money. You don’t win championships with them as proven over the last decade. It’s not a position you invest Top 5 money in if you’re serious about winning.
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(04-19-2020, 09:48 AM)AlphaBengal Wrote: You trade him for a second in a heartbeat. He’s going to get a huge contract and paying running backs are a waste of money. You don’t win championships with them as proven over the last decade.
Seahawks offense was built around Marshawn Lynch. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th in passing and 4th in rushing.
2012 Ravens leaned more Ray Rice's 1600+ yards from scrimmage than Flacco's passing. They were 15th in passing and 11th rushing.
2018 Rams offense was based on Gurley more than Goff. They were thrid in the league in rushing.
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(04-19-2020, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Seahawks offense was built around Marshawn Lynch. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th in passing and 4th in rushing.
2012 Ravens leaned more Ray Rice's 1600+ yards from scrimmage than Flacco's passing. They were 15th in passing and 11th rushing.
2018 Rams offense was based on Gurley more than Goff. They were thrid in the league in rushing.
Your rebuttal failed to mention that those teams, especially the Seahawks and ravens had outstanding defenses which put those offenses in position to protect leads and kill clock
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(04-19-2020, 11:12 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Your rebuttal failed to mention that those teams, especially the Seahawks and ravens had outstanding defenses which put those offenses in position to protect leads and kill clock
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All I was doing was proving that Alphabengal was wrong.
People who act like talent does not matter at the RB position are just wrong. Some teams are able to build elite O-lines that make average RBs look better, but more talented RBs would still out perform those average backs behind the same line.
I 100% agree that RBs wear out quicker than any other position, but that is not an issue with Mixon.
I also agree that Mixon is not worth the best RBs in the league.
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The first time I saw this I thought it meant Gio was on thin ice this year
ESPN's Mathew Barry comment from the combine.
• Spoke with a Bengals offensive coach, who said as much as they love Joe Mixon, dynasty leaguers shouldn't forget about Trayveon Williams, whom they are very high on. The coach said, "People forget, this kid led the SEC in rushing. The SEC!"
But it could just be the Bengals paving the way for Williams to replace Mixon next year. "Dynasty Leaguers" keep the same players from year to year and are always looking for cheap players that may break out the next season.
I was very happy we got Trayveon in the 4th round. But I don't think he is as good as Mixon. Williams runs hard for his size, and has great balance, but he is smaller than Mixon, and I don't think he has the same change-of-direction skills
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(04-19-2020, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The first time I saw this I thought it meant Gio was on thin ice this year
ESPN's Mathew Barry comment from the combine.
• Spoke with a Bengals offensive coach, who said as much as they love Joe Mixon, dynasty leaguers shouldn't forget about Trayveon Williams, whom they are very high on. The coach said, "People forget, this kid led the SEC in rushing. The SEC!"
But it could just be the Bengals paving the way for Williams to replace Mixon next year. "Dynasty Leaguers" keep the same players from year to year and are always looking for cheap players that may break out the next season.
I was very happy we got Trayveon in the 4th round. But I don't think he is as good as Mixon. Williams runs hard for his size, and has great balance, but he is smaller than Mixon, and I don't think he has the same change-of-direction skills
We actually got him in the 6th.
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(04-17-2020, 12:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bill O’Brien would probably give up a 2nd rounder for a ham sandwich.
You are so wrong! He would want a BLT.
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I would make the trade, especially given his contract status and this year’s talent pool at RB. There will be likely 2-3 of the Top 5 backs available at the 2nd pick provided it’s in the upper-mid portion of the round. Netting a pick, taking Edwards-Helaire, and saving future cap sounds like a win to me. Mixon is a good back, but arguably not a great one. His next contract money would be better served improving the lines or LB.
Through 2023
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Playoff Record: 5-9, .357 winning pct.
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Playoff Record: 5-2, .714 winning pct.
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I voted no.
He's harder to replace than you think.
We need help more at LB and OL. I think we are so close to having a playoff caliber roster. The last thing we need is another hole to fill.
Not convinced our young RBs on the roster will pan out.
As long as his demands are reasonable I think it's best to keep him.
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(04-18-2020, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am sure you do believe that. In fact I could make quite a list of all the 2nd round RBs people are touting as "just as good as Mixon".
Unfortunately most of you are wrong. History shows that only about one in ten 2nd round RBs produce like Mixon. I know you all think you are draft experts, but the truth is you are no better than the men who make their living evaluating talent for NFL teams.
You would have to get real lucky to replace Mixon with a 2nd round pick.
I never claimed to be better. And the experts are right about 50% of the time in the first round and their success rate gets worse from there. I’m pretty sure I can be correct less than half the time.
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If you can lock him up for 7-8 mil then do it... anymore than that take a shot at a rookie. Unfortunately in most cases a running back is a product of the offensive line easily replaceable.
If I was a GM/Owner in this day and age I don't care if you led the league in rushing for me personally I'm not signing these dudes to huge deals
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(04-18-2020, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am sure you do believe that. In fact I could make quite a list of all the 2nd round RBs people are touting as "just as good as Mixon".
Unfortunately most of you are wrong. History shows that only about one in ten 2nd round RBs produce like Mixon. I know you all think you are draft experts, but the truth is you are no better than the men who make their living evaluating talent for NFL teams.
You would have to get real lucky to replace Mixon with a 2nd round pick.
This seems like an exceptionally blatant made up Fred Stat. Lets look...
- - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon: 977 rushing yards/yr (4.2 YPC) ... 290 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
2nd Round RBs The Last 4 Years (The Length Of A 2nd Round Pick Rookie Contract)
2019
Miles Sanders: 818 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 509 receiving yards/yr (10.2 AVG)
2018
Nick Chubb: 1,245 rushing yards/yr (5.1 YPC) ... 214 receiving yards/yr (7.6 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
Ronald Jones: 384 rushing yards/yr (3.9 YPC) ... 171 receiving yards/yr (9.0 AVG)
Kerryon Johnson: 522 rushing yards/yr (4.5 YPC) ... 170 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
Derrius Guice: 123 rushing yards/yr (5.8 YPC) ... 40 receiving yards/yr (11.3 AVG)
2017
Dalvin Cook: 701 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 305 receiving yards/yr (8.8 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
2016
Derrick Henry: 958 rushing yards/yr (4.8 YPC) ... 193 receiving yards/yr (10.1 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1, 2nd Team All-Pro x1
1 in 10 2nd round RBs, indeed. 
If I go further it includes players like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill (who through 3 years of their respective career, is basically Mixon's clone), Giovani Bernard, Le'Veon Bell, Eddie Lacy.
It's by no means a sure thing you're going to get a Mixon-level production RB in the 2nd, but the odds of it are way better than 1 in 10. It's more like 1 in 2.5 or so, maybe 1 in 3.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon through 3 years: 2,931 rushing yards (4.2 YPC) 17 TD / 870 receiving yards (8.1 AVG) 4 TD
Jeremy Hill through 3 years: 2,757 rushing yards (4.1 YPC) 29 TD / 468 receiving yards (7.4 AVG) 1 TD
Is there anyone who wouldn't have traded Jeremy Hill for an early 2nd round pick after his third year?
____________________________________________________________
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(04-19-2020, 08:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This seems like an exceptionally blatant made up Fred Stat. Lets look...
- - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon: 977 rushing yards/yr (4.2 YPC) ... 290 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
2nd Round RBs The Last 4 Years (The Length Of A 2nd Round Pick Rookie Contract)
2019
Miles Sanders: 818 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 509 receiving yards/yr (10.2 AVG)
2018
Nick Chubb: 1,245 rushing yards/yr (5.1 YPC) ... 214 receiving yards/yr (7.6 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
Ronald Jones: 384 rushing yards/yr (3.9 YPC) ... 171 receiving yards/yr (9.0 AVG)
Kerryon Johnson: 522 rushing yards/yr (4.5 YPC) ... 170 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
Derrius Guice: 123 rushing yards/yr (5.8 YPC) ... 40 receiving yards/yr (11.3 AVG)
2017
Dalvin Cook: 701 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 305 receiving yards/yr (8.8 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
2016
Derrick Henry: 958 rushing yards/yr (4.8 YPC) ... 193 receiving yards/yr (10.1 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1, 2nd Team All-Pro x1
1 in 10 2nd round RBs, indeed.
If I go further it includes players like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill (who through 3 years of their respective career, is basically Mixon's clone), Giovani Bernard, Le'Veon Bell, Eddie Lacy.
It's by no means a sure thing you're going to get a Mixon-level production RB in the 2nd, but the odds of it are way better than 1 in 10. It's more like 1 in 2.5 or so, maybe 1 in 3.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon through 3 years: 2,931 rushing yards (4.2 YPC) 17 TD / 870 receiving yards (8.1 AVG) 4 TD
Jeremy Hill through 3 years: 2,757 rushing yards (4.1 YPC) 29 TD / 468 receiving yards (7.4 AVG) 1 TD
Is there anyone who wouldn't have traded Jeremy Hill for an early 2nd round pick after his third year?
Mixon averaging over 4 YPC then they need to pay the man. He must be a God with an average over 4 running behind that o-line. They upgrade the line and you see that average creep towards 5 I guarantee he will be worth keeping.
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(04-19-2020, 08:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This seems like an exceptionally blatant made up Fred Stat. Lets look...
- - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon: 977 rushing yards/yr (4.2 YPC) ... 290 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
2nd Round RBs The Last 4 Years (The Length Of A 2nd Round Pick Rookie Contract)
2019
Miles Sanders: 818 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 509 receiving yards/yr (10.2 AVG)
2018
Nick Chubb: 1,245 rushing yards/yr (5.1 YPC) ... 214 receiving yards/yr (7.6 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
Ronald Jones: 384 rushing yards/yr (3.9 YPC) ... 171 receiving yards/yr (9.0 AVG)
Kerryon Johnson: 522 rushing yards/yr (4.5 YPC) ... 170 receiving yards/yr (8.1 AVG)
Derrius Guice: 123 rushing yards/yr (5.8 YPC) ... 40 receiving yards/yr (11.3 AVG)
2017
Dalvin Cook: 701 rushing yards/yr (4.6 YPC) ... 305 receiving yards/yr (8.8 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1
2016
Derrick Henry: 958 rushing yards/yr (4.8 YPC) ... 193 receiving yards/yr (10.1 AVG) ... Pro Bowl x1, 2nd Team All-Pro x1
1 in 10 2nd round RBs, indeed.
If I go further it includes players like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill (who through 3 years of their respective career, is basically Mixon's clone), Giovani Bernard, Le'Veon Bell, Eddie Lacy.
It's by no means a sure thing you're going to get a Mixon-level production RB in the 2nd, but the odds of it are way better than 1 in 10. It's more like 1 in 2.5 or so, maybe 1 in 3.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Joe Mixon through 3 years: 2,931 rushing yards (4.2 YPC) 17 TD / 870 receiving yards (8.1 AVG) 4 TD
Jeremy Hill through 3 years: 2,757 rushing yards (4.1 YPC) 29 TD / 468 receiving yards (7.4 AVG) 1 TD
Is there anyone who wouldn't have traded Jeremy Hill for an early 2nd round pick after his third year?
Exactly, some want to make Mixon out that he's the second coming of Corey Dillon, and he's far from it. After 3 years Dillon had 3,469 yards rushing, 19 rushing TDs, 767 receiving yards with another 2 TDs. Dillon played on some of the shittiest Bengal teams that I have ever witnessed, and he was the only shining light at times. Joe Mixon? Pfft! He's not a "generational talent", in fact he's quite easily replacable.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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Has Mixon ever actually specifically said he would hold out? The article by Dehner said the Bengals “anticipate he’d hold out”. Two different things, although if the Bengals anticipate it, they may have already had that conversation in private
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With Burrow I see more of a passing attack than a ground and pound. No need to pay a RB with this QB.
If you can't get him at 7-8 per year then let him go and sign an impact player at another position
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(04-19-2020, 09:18 PM)LebanonFan Wrote: Has Mixon ever actually specifically said he would hold out? The article by Dehner said the Bengals “anticipate he’d hold out”. Two different things, although if the Bengals anticipate it, they may have already had that conversation in private
From The Athletic:
The Athletic's Paul Dehner writes contract-year RB Joe Mixon is "prepared for a holdout" if he and the Bengals can't agree to a long-term deal.
Mixon is headed into the final year of his rookie deal, which is set to pay him just over $1.2 million. He's obviously insanely underpaid, and Mixon knows the deal with running backs -- their shelf life is short, so he needs to capitalize when able. 24 in July, Mixon is coming off yet another 1,000-yard season after piling up a huge second half following the Week 9 bye. Mixon had 100 yards and/or one touchdown in 6-of-8 games down the stretch in 2019. However, we've seen how holdouts go with running backs. It could be a risky line to walk for Mixon. It is notable the Bengals have been willing to spend money this offseason.
The article clearly states that Joe Mixon is prepared for a holdout. It make no mention of "the Bengals anticipate" a holdout from Joe Mixon. Context means much in print media..
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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