TJ on John Ross: 'They took his confidence'

[*Nately120*]

(04-21-2020, 11:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Seriously? TO is a top 3 WR of all time...

How dare John Ross not be TO!

Im just saying we were pretty dismissive of TO in stripes because it was a garbage time season.  Ross has had 3 years of garbage time to stack up the TDs.  It's a bummer. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-21-2020, 11:43 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Totally agree,

I'm at the end of my rope with Ross and I'd say the coaches/team are too. Ross has to set his purse down and start getting it done and be damn quick about doing it. There's no more room for excuses. And to be quite honest I'm not beaming with confidence he can ? I hope he proves me wrong !

It's funny you used the word confidence.  Ross took my confidence like Marvin took his.  We are just some broken folks, I tells ya. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-21-2020, 11:57 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im just saying we were pretty dismissive of TO in stripes because it was a garbage time season.  Ross has had 3 years of garbage time to stack up the TDs.  It's a bummer. 

There’s plenty of WR’s around the league that haven’t scored TD’s at the rate Ross has. Idc if they’re “garbage time.” Other than the games against KC, NO, and SF, we haven’t been blown out much anyway the past few years.

[coachmcneil71]

Confidence comes from within. Others can show you courage and have confidence in you, but true confidence comes from within. It is usually accompanied by hard work and effort towards a goal. HW and effort are building blocks towards self confidence.

I'm not buying into TJ's take on this one I understand his angle, but it isn't flying with me.

[*Nately120*]

(04-21-2020, 12:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s plenty of WR’s around the league that haven’t scored TD’s at the rate Ross has. Idc if they’re “garbage time.” Other than the games against KC, NO, and SF, we haven’t been blown out much anyway the past few years.

I don't care of its garbage time either but im saying all this garbage time was ample opportunity for Ross to pad up his stats and he hasn't. 

But no more excuses right?  We will finally know by the end of the 2020 season if Ross is good, right?  We will know he is good when He goes off and has a great season, but when and how will we ever know if he isn't good?  That's the question. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-21-2020, 12:16 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Confidence comes from within. Others can show you courage and have confidence in you, but true confidence comes from within. It is usually accompanied by hard work and effort towards a goal. HW and effort are building blocks towards self confidence.

I'm not buying into TJ's take on this one I understand his angle, but it isn't flying with me.

TJ is a fickle guy. He wanted out of here then followed Palmer to Oakland then wanted to get revenge as a Raven and now he's telling Bengals fans what they want to hear again.  I get his angle, but ehh I know he's pushing his latest agenda too. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

My point is if Burrow is as good as I think he is of course going to make Ross look better. The Chiefs were still an explosive offense without Tyreek Hill. Randall Cobb was a probowler playing with Rodgers. If Ross has a big year he's going to want to be paid just hopefully not us money should be spent elsewhere.

[McC]

(04-21-2020, 02:49 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: My point is if Burrow is as good as I think he is of course going to make Ross look better. The Chiefs were still an explosive offense without Tyreek Hill. Randall Cobb was a probowler playing with Rodgers. If Ross has a big year he's going to want to be paid just hopefully not us money should be spent elsewhere.

So, if he has a big year, that's the time to get rid of him?  Riiight.

[Housh]

Ross was never going to succeed with QBs like Dalton and Finley


If he doesn’t get it with Burrow then he’s just not good

[*jason*]

(04-21-2020, 12:16 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Confidence comes from within. Others can show you courage and have confidence in you, but true confidence comes from within. It is usually accompanied by hard work and effort towards a goal. HW and effort are building blocks towards self confidence.

I'm not buying into TJ's take on this one I understand his angle, but it isn't flying with me.

Yep... TJ secured his place on a roster by playing on special teams, and hustling when he did. The man bided his time til Warrick went down then he stepped up... All of this from a 7th rounder. AJ Green went down last year, and Ross certainly didn't fill his shoes. Credit where credit is due. He did at least flash... He really needs to put up this year though.

[JerseyDD09]

Every time one of the Bengals teammates talks about Ross, it is always about how he has the ability but he just needs to have the confidence that he can do it, etc, etc...Every interview!!!

The guy is a grown ass man playing in the NFL!! At some point, Ross needs to take responsibility for his own shit!
It seems to me that all the players have to keep coddling to Ross's fragile state and emotions.
Get over yourself dude!
You're a 1st round draft choice making millions of dollars!
Get out there and do your F@##$% job!
Run down the field and catch the damn ball!

No more excuses blaming Marvin Lewis or his position coach, or a new regime, or a new QB, etc, etc, etc...

[*Nately120*]

(04-22-2020, 12:20 PM)Housh Wrote: Ross was never going to succeed with QBs like Dalton and Finley


If he doesn’t get it with Burrow then he’s just not good

Should a top 10 pick WR really need a #1 overall can't miss QB throwing him the ball in order to be successful?

Isn't the NFL full of productive WRs who aren't exactly catching passes from HOF QBs?

[Housh]

(04-22-2020, 12:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Should a top 10 pick WR really need a #1 overall can't miss QB throwing him the ball in order to be successful?

Isn't the NFL full of productive WRs who aren't exactly catching passes from HOF QBs?

Yeah but Ross’s exact skill set really doesn’t work with a QB who isn’t accurate down the field. Also Andy put a lot of balls out of bounds deep instead of giving his guys a chance. When you are a deep threat like Ross your QB can’t be conservative.

[*Nately120*]

(04-22-2020, 03:27 PM)Housh Wrote: Yeah but Ross’s exact skill set really doesn’t work with a QB who isn’t accurate down the field. Also Andy put a lot of balls out of bounds deep instead of giving his guys a chance. When you are a deep threat like Ross your QB can’t be conservative.

Drafting Ross was an even stupider move than I originally thought.  Hey let's draft a guy who has no shot of being productive with our QB who is one year removed from a borderline "couldawon it all" season whom we have under a team friendly deal for the next 5 years.

Ouch.  9th overall pick for that.

[fredtoast]

(04-22-2020, 03:27 PM)Housh Wrote: Yeah but Ross’s exact skill set really doesn’t work with a QB who isn’t accurate down the field. Also Andy put a lot of balls out of bounds deep instead of giving his guys a chance. When you are a deep threat like Ross your QB can’t be conservative.

(04-22-2020, 03:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Drafting Ross was an even stupider move than I originally thought.  Hey let's draft a guy who has no shot of being productive with our QB who is one year removed from a borderline "couldawon it all" season whom we have under a team friendly deal for the next 5 years.

Ouch.  9th overall pick for that.

Dalton throws the deep ball as good or better than most NFL QBs.

People watch highlights where every deep ball is a strike and they think Andy is the only one who misses on deep throws.  But if you look at the actual numbers he is not bad at all throwing deep.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

[*Nately120*]

(04-22-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton throws the deep ball as good or better than most NFL QBs.

People watch highlights where every deep ball is a strike and they think Andy is the only one who misses on deep throws.  But if you look at the actual numbers he is not bad at all throwing deep.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

Logical point.  Personally, I believe the "never Ross' fault" crew will find another excuse if he doesn't suddenly turn it on in 2020.  I'm looking at you, Callahan!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-21-2020, 11:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:  Ross has. 10 TD in 24 games (and lets be honest Dalton cost him a couple more) is something to look at and see a glimmer of hope there.

That's an interesting way to view the Ross/Dalton dynamic. Just ignoring all the dropped passes/wrong routes/half-assing routes/playing the ball poorly in the air (alligator arm-ing)/giving up on routes that cost Dalton a lot of incompletions and INTs? I feel like if you looked at the tape, Ross would still be well into the red on that balance sheet of who cost who.

[JerseyDD09]

(04-22-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton throws the deep ball as good or better than most NFL QBs.

People watch highlights where every deep ball is a strike and they think Andy is the only one who misses on deep throws.  But if you look at the actual numbers he is not bad at all throwing deep.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

So, I guess it's just to Ross that he's not accurate with? Fred, I'd love for you to review every deep ball that he and Driskel tried to throw to Ross. I saw at least 4 TDs missed to him when he was open by a step or more. It was either vastly underthrown or overthrown. 
So, I disagree with your stats, at least when it pertains to Ross and his speed. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-22-2020, 04:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an interesting way to view the Ross/Dalton dynamic. Just ignoring all the dropped passes/wrong routes/half-assing routes/playing the ball poorly in the air (alligator arm-ing)/giving up on routes that cost Dalton a lot of incompletions and INTs? I feel like if you looked at the tape, Ross would still be well into the red on that balance sheet of who cost who.

Somehow Burrow is going to make him run better routes, have better hands, and maybe even get hurt less. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-22-2020, 04:26 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: So, I guess it's just to Ross that he's not accurate with? Fred, I'd love for you to review every deep ball that he and Driskel tried to throw to Ross. I saw at least 4 TDs missed to him when he was open by a step or more. It was either vastly underthrown or overthrown. 
So, I disagree with your stats, at least when it pertains to Ross and his speed. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-19-deep-ball-project


2018 Deep Ball Accuracy
Tom Brady: 37.5%
Drew Brees: 52.1%
Russell Wilson: 59.0%
Matthew Stafford: 40.9%
Ben Roethlisberger: 33.9%
Joe Flacco: 37.1%
Deshaun Watson: 46.7%
Andy Dalton: 46.4%
Aaron Rodgers: 47.1%
Cam Newton: 37.9%

If deep passes were something that everyone could complete on a regular basis, that's all they would ever throw. It's almost as if having a guy run 20+ yards down the field and throwing a ball to meet him in mid-stride while he's being covered by 1-2 people whose job is to stop him from catching the ball is a hard thing.

Dalton was right there with Watson and Rodgers, and way above Roethlisberger and Brady in 2018 with just half a season from AJ Green, a garbage OL, and a terrible OC.

The average accuracy the article found for QB deep passes was 46.6%

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Also keep in mind while you recall the vastly overthrown or underthrown. If you're using the term vastly, then consider that Ross wasn't where he was supposed to be. Guys who quit on routes or run wrong routes don't exactly get the benefit of doubt that they are in the right spot when you start using the word "vastly".