TJ on John Ross: 'They took his confidence'

['E']

Ross didn't suddenly develop confidence issues upon joining the Bengals. If that is a problem for him it's a part of his personality and if his personality is as fragile as his body, he can't help us much.

[JerseyDD09]

(04-22-2020, 04:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-19-deep-ball-project


2018 Deep Ball Accuracy
Tom Brady: 37.5%
Drew Brees: 52.1%
Russell Wilson: 59.0%
Matthew Stafford: 40.9%
Ben Roethlisberger: 33.9%
Joe Flacco: 37.1%
Deshaun Watson: 46.7%
Andy Dalton: 46.4%
Aaron Rodgers: 47.1%
Cam Newton: 37.9%

If deep passes were something that everyone could complete on a regular basis, that's all they would ever throw. It's almost as if having a guy run 20+ yards down the field and throwing a ball to meet him in mid-stride while he's being covered by 1-2 people whose job is to stop him from catching the ball is a hard thing.

Dalton was right there with Watson and Rodgers, and way above Roethlisberger and Brady in 2018 with just half a season from AJ Green, a garbage OL, and a terrible OC.

The average accuracy the article found for QB deep passes was 46.6%

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Also keep in mind while you recall the vastly overthrown or underthrown. If you're using the term vastly, then consider that Ross wasn't where he was supposed to be. Guys who quit on routes or run wrong routes don't exactly get the benefit of doubt that they are in the right spot when you start using the word "vastly".

You make some good points. And those are good stats. But, we are specifically talking about Ross here. And people are hammering him that he doesn't know how to run the correct route or catch or run or do anything correctly. And, whenever Dalton or Driskel or Finley over or under threw Ross, it was Ross's fault every time? 
Sorry to say though, those post routes he ran and that he had step or steps on the defenders were not his fault. Every time it happened, I cussed the damn QB out b/c Ross was wide open for a long TD. 
I'll agree with you that Ross has messed up routes, short armed some balls, dropped some balls, etc, etc....But every deep ball that the QB couldn't get him the ball hasn't been his fault. 

[impactplaya]

What was Daltons deep ball accuracy after Green got hurt in 2018?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-21-2020, 10:44 AM)Nately120 Wrote: My issue with the Ross hopefuls is how quickly they declare victory (see week 1 last year) and how many excuses they make for his lack of success. 

I want the guy to be awesome, but it's annoying hearing how the planets seemingly have to align for a 9th overall pick to succeed.  Oh and anyone who says hes a disappointment hates him and is rooting against him and scared he's going to be good. 

Why are we allowed to say Ced and Price and other disappointing players are disappointing without being called haters?  Just seems odd. 

I get that, been waiting awhile here holding the Ross torch and he has been letting me down.

He will show a flash like that Seattle game and then the guy is injured and doesn't have confidence. 

Don't get the confidence thing.

He should of proven enough to himself in that Seattle game.

['E']

There is no place for self-doubt in the NFL. If you can't do it, you'd better damn sure be clueless about it!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

[quote pid='858919' dateline='1587594648']
There is no place for self-doubt in the NFL. If you can't do it, you'd better damn sure be clueless about it!
[/quote]

Yeah, better to have blind confidence lol

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-22-2020, 04:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an interesting way to view the Ross/Dalton dynamic. Just ignoring all the dropped passes/wrong routes/half-assing routes/playing the ball poorly in the air (alligator arm-ing)/giving up on routes that cost Dalton a lot of incompletions and INTs? I feel like if you looked at the tape, Ross would still be well into the red on that balance sheet of who cost who.

You might have a point if I didn’t constantly bring up drops wrt Ross...

Dalton still cost him some TD’s though? Can we admit that?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-22-2020, 09:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You might have a point if I didn’t constantly bring up drops wrt Ross...

Dalton still cost him some TD’s though? Can we admit that?

Dalton overthrew and underthrew Ross twice in one game last season where he could of had 2 more TD's in that game.

Ross only had one TD in that game cause of this. Should of had 3 had Dalton been on the mark.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-22-2020, 04:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Somehow Burrow is going to make him run better routes, have better hands, and maybe even get hurt less. 

Nah, but hitting him in stride would be a good start...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-22-2020, 05:26 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You make some good points. And those are good stats. But, we are specifically talking about Ross here. And people are hammering him that he doesn't know how to run the correct route or catch or run or do anything correctly. And, whenever Dalton or Driskel or Finley over or under threw Ross, it was Ross's fault every time? 
Sorry to say though, those post routes he ran and that he had step or steps on the defenders were not his fault. Every time it happened, I cussed the damn QB out b/c Ross was wide open for a long TD. 
I'll agree with you that Ross has messed up routes, short armed some balls, dropped some balls, etc, etc....But every deep ball that the QB couldn't get him the ball hasn't been his fault. 

Fair, rational, and unbiased post. Rep.

[Housh]

(04-22-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton throws the deep ball as good or better than most NFL QBs.

People watch highlights where every deep ball is a strike and they think Andy is the only one who misses on deep throws.  But if you look at the actual numbers he is not bad at all throwing deep.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

I dont rep you up as much as I should and im sorry for that but this is just not it Fred. I usually agree with most of what you say. But you and me both know Dalton is not a deep ball guy. Andy is one of the WORST starting QBs that have started as long as him with throwing it deep. If he didnt have AJ Green hed had already been benched. AJ GReen plays like 2 games a season and STILL makes Andy look good. ANdy is REALLY REALLY good at short to intermediate lasers. But dude aint NEVER been Carson Palmer with the deep accuracy or confidence. Dalton be having guys with a whole 2 steps ahead of their man and hell throw it out of bounds

[fredtoast]

(04-23-2020, 12:07 AM)Housh Wrote:  But you and me both know Dalton is not a deep ball guy. Andy is one of the WORST starting QBs that have started as long as him with throwing it deep. If he didnt have AJ Green hed had already been benched. 

You are just wrong.

The problem is that the only time people see other QBs throw deep passes are on highlights where they always are completed.  The fact is that most deep passes by even the best QB are incomplete.

The numbers show that Dalton is not bad throwing deep and it has nothing to do with AJ Green because he has hit lots of other guys with deep throws.

ESPN used to provide stats on deep throws so I could post more numbers to prove my point, but they don't do that anymore.


**EDIT**

Here are some old numbers I found covering Dalton's first six seasons.  Sorry I can't access this info from ESPN anymore

Dalton

113 of 361 (31.3% completion rate)
89.4 passer rating
4349 yards (38.5 yards per completion)
37 TDs
20 INTs
Frequency of deep passes (10.15% of all attempts)
10.25% TD rate
5.54% INT rate

Ben

148 of 460 (32.2% completion rate)
86.4 passer rating
5453 yards (36.8 yards per completion)
50 TDs
31 INTs
Frequency of deep passes (12.46% of all attempts)
10.87% TD rate
6.74% INT rate

Brady

128 of 402 (31.8% completion rate)
88.8 passer rating
4586 yards (35.8 yards per completion)
34 TDs
15 INTs
Frequency of deep passes (9.82% of all attempts)
8.46% TD rate
3.73% INT rate



So if Dalton sucks throwing deep then so do many other great QBs.

[Cicero]

I'm in wait and see mode with Ross and a few other players. It's pretty clear that Marvin retired at least a year before he was fired.