Where the Bengals Have Already Failed Joe Burrow

[Cicero]

(05-03-2020, 07:52 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Billy Price could go a long way to help build this o line up. I do not have much faith in him like about all of you but it only matters if he has faith in himself. He was a first round pick for a reason and a lot of other teams had him as a first or second round pick as well so he has talent. If he could play good enough to lock down a starting spot at guard or center it would help our o line a great deal.

I really thought we had something with him. He's just never shown it. Kids got a great attitude and work ethic though. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-03-2020, 01:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know it is a novel concept around here, but NFL scouts are probably better at the "eye test" than most people here.  And I am pretty sure they considered the QB play before taking three LSU O-linemen in the first three rounds.

I mean just look at how many people here claimed last year that Finley would be better at avoiding the pass rush than Dalton.

Sure, that's why Andy had 1st Rd pick Ced and second rd pick Jake as his bookends. 

Who were the 3 LSU olinemen taken in the 1st 3 rounds?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-03-2020, 07:52 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Billy Price could go a long way to help build this o line up. I do not have much faith in him like about all of you but it only matters if he has faith in himself. He was a first round pick for a reason and a lot of other teams had him as a first or second round pick as well so he has talent. If he could play good enough to lock down a starting spot at guard or center it would help our o line a great deal.

Ogbuehi and Fisher were 1st and 2nd round picks, too. Sometimes guys are just busts and don’t live up to their projected potential.

I personally have no hope for Price at this point. His play is horrendous.

[BonnieBengal]

(05-03-2020, 11:36 AM)kdgjr Wrote: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2889693-where-the-bengals-have-already-failed-joe-burrow.amp.html


☰

John Raoux/Associated Press
Where the Bengals Have Already Failed Joe Burrow
BRENT SOBLESKI
MAY 01, 2020
The development of a first-round quarterback is as much about not ruining him as placing him in a position to succeed.

A team can have the right system in place and plenty of talent at the skill positions. But if the young signal-caller isn't properly protected and is under constant duress, he'll never excel. Offensive line play tends to be overlooked when it comes to a quarterback's progression. An underwhelming front five can ruin talented prospects. Ask Tim Couch or David Carr.

Enter the Cincinnati Bengals and this year's No. 1 overall pick, Joe Burrow.

The Bengals made the right choice with the pick but lack investments up front to properly protect their new franchise quarterback.


Burrow is coming off the greatest season in college football history with the LSU Tigers. The southern Ohio native captured the Heisman Trophy, Maxwell Award, Davey O'Brien Award, Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, Manning Award, Lombardi Award, Walter Camp Award and a national championship during the Tigers' undefeated campaign.

The pocket presence, anticipation and touch Burrow displayed during the 2019 campaign haven't been seen from a quarterback prospect in the last 20 years.

But great performances are often accompanied by other standouts. Wide receivers Ja'Marr Chase and Justin Jefferson couldn't be covered. Clyde Edwards-Helaire emerged as a first-round running back with outstanding receiving capabilities. Tight ends Thaddeus Moss and Stephen Sullivan are both on NFL rosters.

LSU's skill-position performers had an opportunity to excel because they played behind one of college football's best offensive lines.

Center Lloyd Cushenberry III and right guard Damien Lewis heard their names called in the third round. Both will have an opportunity to start as rookies. Left tackle Saahdiq Charles came off the board the following round. Left guard Adrian Magee signed an undrafted free-agent deal with the New Orleans Saints. Right tackle Austin Deculus, meanwhile, returned for his senior season with the potential to be selected in the 2021 NFL draft.


Joe Burrow and Lloyd Cushenberry III Gregory Shamus/Getty Images
Burrow had the second-longest average time to throw in the SEC last season despite having the third-fewest average blockers in protection, according to SEC Stat Cat. The quarterback proved to be deadly from a clean pocket.

The LSU-via-Ohio State product led all draft-eligible quarterbacks with a 79.3 completion percentage from a clean pocket, per Pro Football Focus. In fact, Burrow led all collegiate signal-callers with a 94.9 grade when allowed to stand tall and not be pressured.

He excelled when working outside of structure too. The 6'3", 221-pound quarterback is an outstanding all-around athlete. As PFF's Anthony Treash noted in December, Burrow graded better under pressure than 84 FBS quarterbacks did from a clean pocket. He's truly special.


However, the 23-year-old signal-caller enters a situation where his protection will be less than stellar, and asking him to produce at or near similar levels against NFL athletes is another matter altogether.

The Bengals will receive a significant boost to their offensive line thanks to Jonah Williams' return from last year's season-ending labrum tear. Williams was the top offensive tackle prospect in the 2019 class, but he never played a down during his rookie campaign. Obviously, some growing pains will occur with a first-time starter, but his talent and technique portend an outstanding left tackle.

The rest of Cincinnati's front five is suspect at best.

Trey Hopkins signed a three-year, $20.4 million extension in December the day before he made his 16th start. Hopkins found a home at center, but he shouldn't be considered a top-end performer. Reliability is one thing. Excellence is another. Still, he's one piece in place.

Michael Jordan, Billy Price, Alex Redmond and Fred Johnson are young options to start at guard or right tackle. Jordan, Price and Redmond didn't play well last season, while Johnson started one game in Week 17.

Bobby Hart, who signed a three-year, $16.2 million extension last offseason, remains one of the league's worst right tackles because he consistently surrenders too much pressure.


Bengals right tackle Bobby Hart blocking Seattle Seahawks defensive end Jadeveon Clowney. Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images
The organization didn't attack the position with any urgency in free agency either.

Xavier Su'a-Filo signed a three-year, $9 million deal. The six-year veteran is an experienced starter, but he's been more of a placeholder than an established presence.

Cincinnati's approach to building its offensive line can be summed up in one quote from vice president Troy Blackburn last offseason:


"For those who say you shouldn't have signed Bobby Hart, who is going to play right tackle? Who? Oh, maybe you'll draft one in the third round and he'll come on. Really? You're going to bet your season on that? We may still draft somebody. We haven't had the draft yet. But you just can't criticize. In our business you have to solve the problem."

Mission accepted.

This year's draft came. Previous ills can be forgiven with a smart approach. With Burrow already in tow, the Bengals should have done everything in their power to properly protect the quarterback. They didn't.

Two offensive tackles with first-round ability—Houston's Josh Johnson and Boise State's Ezra Cleveland—fell to the Bengals with the 33rd overall pick. Neither became the choice.

Instead, director of player personnel Duke Tobin selected Clemson wide receiver Tee Higgins. Higgins is a talented option to create an outstanding wide receiver corps. At the same time, his selection should be viewed as a luxury with A.J. Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross III and Auden Tate already on the roster.

Jones and a few talented interior blockers were still available at the start of the third round.

Yet the Bengals passed on all of them once again. Not all third-rounders should be expected to start, as Blackburn stated, but Jones, Damien Lewis and Lloyd Cushenberry III are projected starters for their new teams. All three could have immediately helped the Bengals, who chose Wyoming linebacker Logan Wilson with the 65th overall pick.


To make matters worse, Cincinnati waited until the sixth round before it finally selected Kansas' Hakeem Adeniji for developmental purposes.

Surely, the Bengals can and will do some things to offset this potential problem area.


Wide receiver Tee Higgins Don Juan Moore/Getty Images
The skill positions are quite talented with the previously mentioned wide receivers, running back Joe Mixon and tight ends C.J. Uzomah and Drew Sample. Burrow should also transition well into Zac Taylor's offensive system.

"We've got a lot of similarities with their pass game. A lot of NFL offenses do," Bengals offensive coordinator Brian Callahan said of the LSU offense in January. He added: "You see a lot of pro passing concepts in their offense, and they did a really good job. But they are things that you see around the league. It's all things that fit very well with what we do and a lot of people do."

Plus, the staff can add more run-pass option concepts, expand the quick passing game, increase crossing routes and work almost entirely from shotgun to ease the transition.

Those things will only do so much behind a crumbling offensive line that finished in the bottom 10 last season by surrendering 48 sacks.

Williams' return from injury, along with the additions of Su'a-Filo and Adeniji, isn't enough to build a secure cockpit for such a talented passer.

A year from now, a predictable question will be asked: How are the Bengals going to protect Burrow?

The fact that Cincinnati will be forced to address the offensive line next year shows exactly how it failed to protect the franchise's biggest investment.




---

This ticks me off. Some valid points but so much needless dumping on the team. Until we win, no respect will be given, ever.

I feel like someone just read this board and then wrote an article.

[samhain]

(05-03-2020, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, that's why Andy had 1st Rd pick Ced and second rd pick Jake as his bookends. 

Who were the 3 LSU olinemen taken in the 1st 3 rounds?

Cushenberry and Lewis went in 3.  Charles in 4.  So really 2, I guess.  None in 1 or 2.

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2020, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, that's why Andy had 1st Rd pick Ced and second rd pick Jake as his bookends. 

Not sure what your point is.

For the record, are saying that you and the other "draft experts" on this board are better than the professional scouts working for the NFL?

[McC]

(05-04-2020, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what your point is.

For the record, are saying that you and the other "draft experts" on this board are better than the professional scouts working for the NFL?

It would make it a lot easier to discuss players if you stopped this nonsense of bringing up the NFL experts.  It's a given that they know more.  Can't it just be accepted that they are the professionals?  And can't it further be accepted that we are all just a bunch of amateurs giving opinions, including you?

It's pretty goofy to keep saying, Oh, I guess you know more than the experts, when no one is making such a claim.

You are the only poster here who keeps making this childish statement and it usually comes out when you're locked in an argument and you're just out of responses.

And btw, there is a caveat--these experts, these people paid to do these jobs, are among the elite at their profession if they even have a 50% success rate and every one of them has plenty of giant failures on their resumes.

[Essex Johnson]

I am going to look at the positive.. Taylor and the staff had a year to work with the line last year.. they actually made some changes with Hopkins to Center, and Warren to Starting Guard during the season.. and they did improve 2nd half of season...

They picked up Fred Johnson that they started at end of year.. I am going to assume they were happy with their progress and fill they can improve over a draft pick they have to take a chance on.. Also they have worked with Williams so im guessing they feel better about our line than drafting high picks..

On the flip side, they decided they were not happy with our LBers and did not resign a couple and cut Brown during the season and took the chance of drafting 3 LBs in this draft.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2020, 11:24 AM)McC Wrote: It would make it a lot easier to discuss players if you stopped this nonsense of bringing up the NFL experts.  It's a given that they know more.  Can't it just be accepted that they are the professionals?  And can't it further be accepted that we are all just a bunch of amateurs giving opinions, including you?

I have no choice when I am told the LSU linemen were not really that good because it was just Burrow making them look better.

[McC]

(05-04-2020, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no choice when I am told the LSU linemen were not really that good because it was just Burrow making them look better.

None of them were drafted until the third round.  Doesn't that tell you anything?  In an age where C's and G's get drafted in the first round, not having any of the LSU linemen taken in the first or second is pretty telling, isn't it?

I've never really seen anybody here claim to know more than the professionals.  That makes me wonder why you have to keep acting like they are.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(05-03-2020, 01:44 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: This... I was all for drafting o-line at 33 but it's hard to argue with the results the last time they picked a QB/WR combo. LB corps was pitiful so they double dipped. So it's wait & see for now. 

Logan Woodside and Auden Tate?

(05-03-2020, 06:14 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Junk article.

1) The MEDIA had Jones as a first round talent, and some had Cleveland there as well. But the fact is, NFL teams did not. He went in round 3. Cleveland in Round 2. The guy wants to cover his own butt because teams did not agree with his evaluations.

2) Anyone who thinks a team is set at WR because the have John Ross is an idiot. Plus, he fails to mention that AJ has not been healthy for 2 years either.

3) Two rookie tackles is not exactly a recipe for great pass protection. No matter who they are.

4) The guy writes an article on the O-line but fails to mention the scheme change. Shows his depth of suvject matter knowledge is shallow.

I still hope we sign some reinforcements (Peters, Jackson, etc) if we have cap room after Mixon's new deal is done. Even absent that, if Jordan & Johnson improve, and Price is healthy, I think we could be OK.

Isn't that what we're basically going to have with Jonah Williams and Fred Johnson's one start between them (assuming Johnson beats out Hart, which is what everyone wants).

(05-03-2020, 07:18 PM)samhain Wrote: This article is jumping the gun a bit. I'd like to see more talent on the line, but there are 2 things at play here:

1: This team, in case you didn't notice, really effing sucked last year at several position groups. They sucked practically everywhere on the defensive side, save maybe the line at the end of the season. They needed a lot of upgrades. There wasn't enough money or draft picks to address them all. Beating up on the worst team in football for not fixing every position on the roster is a cheap narrative to start off with.

2. The team says they like the guys they have, and they've stuck with that assertion all year. With all of the other things they've done to address personnel, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. if they truly believed that the o-line was going to get Burrow killed, I think they'd have attempted to do more.

I don't love Turner. I think he's a clown. Still, it's worth seeing if continuity in his system and a year of development/chemistry for younger guys can make the difference. If not, then attack the o-line like you did linebacker and the secondary this year.

It's easy to say that an o-line is essential to developing a young franchise quarterback, but it's not the ONLY essential thing. I imagine any quarterback would appreciate a defense that plays well enough to take some of the pressure of of them. To me it was just a matter of not being able to do everything at once.

I don't think the article was necessarily disagreeing with the idea that several positions needed revamping, but was rather arguing that O-line should have been prioritized more when you have a rookie QB.

I think QBs would take the O-line over a defense if they couldn't all be fixed at once.

[Hammerstripes]

The bottom line with the O-line is that we are just going to have to trust that the coaches are right on this one (I'm not buying it, but whatever)

They spent a ton of money in free agency and only signed 1 O-lineman (who I think is a sleeper BTW and played pretty good last year). They had access to Josh Jones at the senior bowl for a full week and passed on him twice.

They've repeatedly said that they are happy with their guys and that they fully expect that Jordan and Johnson will make a 2nd year leap. I hope they are right.

[bengals1969]

(05-03-2020, 11:36 AM)kdgjr Wrote: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2889693-where-the-bengals-have-already-failed-joe-burrow.amp.html


☰

John Raoux/Associated Press
Where the Bengals Have Already Failed Joe Burrow
BRENT SOBLESKI
MAY 01, 2020
The development of a first-round quarterback is as much about not ruining him as placing him in a position to succeed.

A team can have the right system in place and plenty of talent at the skill positions. But if the young signal-caller isn't properly protected and is under constant duress, he'll never excel. Offensive line play tends to be overlooked when it comes to a quarterback's progression. An underwhelming front five can ruin talented prospects. Ask Tim Couch or David Carr.

Enter the Cincinnati Bengals and this year's No. 1 overall pick, Joe Burrow.

The Bengals made the right choice with the pick but lack investments up front to properly protect their new franchise quarterback.


Burrow is coming off the greatest season in college football history with the LSU Tigers. The southern Ohio native captured the Heisman Trophy, Maxwell Award, Davey O'Brien Award, Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, Manning Award, Lombardi Award, Walter Camp Award and a national championship during the Tigers' undefeated campaign.

The pocket presence, anticipation and touch Burrow displayed during the 2019 campaign haven't been seen from a quarterback prospect in the last 20 years.

But great performances are often accompanied by other standouts. Wide receivers Ja'Marr Chase and Justin Jefferson couldn't be covered. Clyde Edwards-Helaire emerged as a first-round running back with outstanding receiving capabilities. Tight ends Thaddeus Moss and Stephen Sullivan are both on NFL rosters.

LSU's skill-position performers had an opportunity to excel because they played behind one of college football's best offensive lines.

Center Lloyd Cushenberry III and right guard Damien Lewis heard their names called in the third round. Both will have an opportunity to start as rookies. Left tackle Saahdiq Charles came off the board the following round. Left guard Adrian Magee signed an undrafted free-agent deal with the New Orleans Saints. Right tackle Austin Deculus, meanwhile, returned for his senior season with the potential to be selected in the 2021 NFL draft.


Joe Burrow and Lloyd Cushenberry III Gregory Shamus/Getty Images
Burrow had the second-longest average time to throw in the SEC last season despite having the third-fewest average blockers in protection, according to SEC Stat Cat. The quarterback proved to be deadly from a clean pocket.

The LSU-via-Ohio State product led all draft-eligible quarterbacks with a 79.3 completion percentage from a clean pocket, per Pro Football Focus. In fact, Burrow led all collegiate signal-callers with a 94.9 grade when allowed to stand tall and not be pressured.

He excelled when working outside of structure too. The 6'3", 221-pound quarterback is an outstanding all-around athlete. As PFF's Anthony Treash noted in December, Burrow graded better under pressure than 84 FBS quarterbacks did from a clean pocket. He's truly special.


However, the 23-year-old signal-caller enters a situation where his protection will be less than stellar, and asking him to produce at or near similar levels against NFL athletes is another matter altogether.

The Bengals will receive a significant boost to their offensive line thanks to Jonah Williams' return from last year's season-ending labrum tear. Williams was the top offensive tackle prospect in the 2019 class, but he never played a down during his rookie campaign. Obviously, some growing pains will occur with a first-time starter, but his talent and technique portend an outstanding left tackle.

The rest of Cincinnati's front five is suspect at best.

Trey Hopkins signed a three-year, $20.4 million extension in December the day before he made his 16th start. Hopkins found a home at center, but he shouldn't be considered a top-end performer. Reliability is one thing. Excellence is another. Still, he's one piece in place.

Michael Jordan, Billy Price, Alex Redmond and Fred Johnson are young options to start at guard or right tackle. Jordan, Price and Redmond didn't play well last season, while Johnson started one game in Week 17.

Bobby Hart, who signed a three-year, $16.2 million extension last offseason, remains one of the league's worst right tackles because he consistently surrenders too much pressure.


Bengals right tackle Bobby Hart blocking Seattle Seahawks defensive end Jadeveon Clowney. Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images
The organization didn't attack the position with any urgency in free agency either.

Xavier Su'a-Filo signed a three-year, $9 million deal. The six-year veteran is an experienced starter, but he's been more of a placeholder than an established presence.

Cincinnati's approach to building its offensive line can be summed up in one quote from vice president Troy Blackburn last offseason:


"For those who say you shouldn't have signed Bobby Hart, who is going to play right tackle? Who? Oh, maybe you'll draft one in the third round and he'll come on. Really? You're going to bet your season on that? We may still draft somebody. We haven't had the draft yet. But you just can't criticize. In our business you have to solve the problem."

Mission accepted.

This year's draft came. Previous ills can be forgiven with a smart approach. With Burrow already in tow, the Bengals should have done everything in their power to properly protect the quarterback. They didn't.

Two offensive tackles with first-round ability—Houston's Josh Johnson and Boise State's Ezra Cleveland—fell to the Bengals with the 33rd overall pick. Neither became the choice.

Instead, director of player personnel Duke Tobin selected Clemson wide receiver Tee Higgins. Higgins is a talented option to create an outstanding wide receiver corps. At the same time, his selection should be viewed as a luxury with A.J. Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross III and Auden Tate already on the roster.

Jones and a few talented interior blockers were still available at the start of the third round.

Yet the Bengals passed on all of them once again. Not all third-rounders should be expected to start, as Blackburn stated, but Jones, Damien Lewis and Lloyd Cushenberry III are projected starters for their new teams. All three could have immediately helped the Bengals, who chose Wyoming linebacker Logan Wilson with the 65th overall pick.


To make matters worse, Cincinnati waited until the sixth round before it finally selected Kansas' Hakeem Adeniji for developmental purposes.

Surely, the Bengals can and will do some things to offset this potential problem area.


Wide receiver Tee Higgins Don Juan Moore/Getty Images
The skill positions are quite talented with the previously mentioned wide receivers, running back Joe Mixon and tight ends C.J. Uzomah and Drew Sample. Burrow should also transition well into Zac Taylor's offensive system.

"We've got a lot of similarities with their pass game. A lot of NFL offenses do," Bengals offensive coordinator Brian Callahan said of the LSU offense in January. He added: "You see a lot of pro passing concepts in their offense, and they did a really good job. But they are things that you see around the league. It's all things that fit very well with what we do and a lot of people do."

Plus, the staff can add more run-pass option concepts, expand the quick passing game, increase crossing routes and work almost entirely from shotgun to ease the transition.

Those things will only do so much behind a crumbling offensive line that finished in the bottom 10 last season by surrendering 48 sacks.

Williams' return from injury, along with the additions of Su'a-Filo and Adeniji, isn't enough to build a secure cockpit for such a talented passer.

A year from now, a predictable question will be asked: How are the Bengals going to protect Burrow?

The fact that Cincinnati will be forced to address the offensive line next year shows exactly how it failed to protect the franchise's biggest investment.


     

---

This ticks me off. Some valid points but so much needless dumping on the team. Until we win, no respect will be given, ever.

[*psychdoctor*]

There was an article of course opinion based article, that the Bengals could trade for Dennis Kelly from the Titans. Kelly is 6'8" 320 lbs that was rated 71 PFF which was better than Hart's rating. Why would Titans trade Kelly? Because they drafted Isaiah Wilson in the first round. I am not sure the Bengals would do this, as he still has about 6 mil on his contract and would probably cost the Bengals a 4-5th rounder.

Point is, the Bengals could scourer the wires and pick up UDFA and practice squad players like they did with Johnson, or they could make a trade. I keep hoping the Patriots trade Thune to Bengals to clear cap space. Not going to happen but one never knows. Bengals could make a trade if it fits right.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2020, 02:21 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I don't think the article was necessarily disagreeing with the idea that several positions needed revamping, but was rather arguing that O-line should have been prioritized more when you have a rookie QB.

I think QBs would take the O-line over a defense if they couldn't all be fixed at once.

This.

Rep.

[bengals1969]

Reports like these from the AP don't do much except explain the obvious.
Clearly the Bengals could use top talent added to their oline mix. But guess what AP reporter? They need talent anywhere they could find it!
WR is a prized skill position and AJ is on a 1 year deal and Ross shouldn't be expected back. That made WR a high priority.
LB was a mess and had been for years.

So there you go, rounds 2-4, not Olinemen. According to the Bengals they stuck to their rankings and didn't reach. Guess what AP reporter?
That is exactly the right approach with a team having too many weak players and too few draft picks. I'd have liked a higher priority on Olinemen too, but not at the expense of talent.

Talk about letting Burrow down? Drafting lesser talent on the Oline instead of better talent elsewhere is how to ruin a team and make a 2-14 team a 1-15 team.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-04-2020, 02:42 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Reports like these from the AP don't do much except explain the obvious.  
Clearly the Bengals could use top talent added to their oline mix.  But guess what AP reporter?  They need talent anywhere they could find it!
WR is a prized skill position and AJ is on a 1 year deal and Ross shouldn't be expected back.  That made WR a high priority.
LB was a mess and had been for years.

So there you go, rounds 2-4, not Olinemen.  According to the Bengals they stuck to their rankings and didn't reach.  Guess what AP reporter?
That is exactly the right approach with a team having too many weak players and too few draft picks.  I'd have liked a higher priority on Olinemen too, but not at the expense of talent.

Talk about letting Burrow down? Drafting lesser talent on the Oline instead of better talent elsewhere is how to ruin a team and make a 2-14 team a 1-15 team.

I'm not so sure that they would have taken an O-linemen regardless of the needs at other positions.  They have banged the "we are happy with who we have drum" for a long time now.  I think the only way they would have done it is if one of the top 4 guys was around at #33 for some reason.  They passed on Josh Jones twice, so I don't think O-line was in their plans at all this draft.

[Whodey614]

I definitely wish we were going into the season with one major upgrade (not counting Jonah) made on the OL but overall it's not grave. A lot of potential on the OL, we just have to hope that the 10th time is the charm when rolling the dice on the line.

LT: Jonah should be a step up from Smith and Jerry at LT even with his inexperience. The question is if Jonah struggles, would they try him at another position? He was projected to being able to play anywhere on the line. Prince and Dugas are currently camp bodies at best and they need a definite backup (could be Fred Johnson)

LG: MJ came on and it's very easy to see why the coaches have confidence in him. I went onto Game Pass to rewatch the O-Line film from last season and MJ was always in the right spot even if he didn't always win. He gave Mixon just enough space to hit those holes. He needs polish in pass protection but as did Boling and he turned out really good by year 3. I really think he can follow that path.

C: When the guards were stabilized next to Trey, he was one of the top-rated Cs in the league. He predictably started struggling when Jerry and Redmond were next to him as anyone would. Do I think he'll be a top center for a whole season? Probably not. He's just an okay center but that's fine for now.

RG is where it gets tricky. XSF seems to be a better scheme fit but can he play RG without missing a beat? I don't have faith in Price at this point but he has been injured and RG is where he should've been playing to begin with. The staff clearly likes him and trusts him to make a jump. I do remember seeing somewhere where he had a 62 in run blocking on PFF during the 2nd half of the season so maybe if he develops more awareness in pass protection, he might put it all together? Adenji is receiving a lot of praise as the biggest OL steal in the draft, but still, a 6th round pick at the end of the day. He'll most likely need a year on the bench. As for Alex Redmond, I believe he'll be cut if a better backup option ends up on waivers.

RT: Bobby Hart must go at all costs. Bring up the PFF grades all you want, he's a weakness no matter how you look at it. He got destroyed by the top teams we played, and only fared considerably better because of Dalton coming back. I'm being cautious about the Fred Johnson hype but no denying he played well and the offense scoring 30 points in both games he played proves that.

The Bengals will clearly be using the waiver wire so I think any concerns about depth will be solved. I don't think Isaiah Prince will stick and they will see that. I don't think Jason Peters will be brought in unless an injury happens and a Joe Thuney trade is unrealistic at this point. I think they explored a Gabe Jackson trade but are probably afraid of a Cordy Glenn 2.0 situation so unless it's for a 5th round pick I don't see them exploring it.

Jonah-XSF-Hopkins-Jordan-Johnson is a best-case scenario if we're looking at the best five currently. I recall MJ playing some RG in college so a transition there might be easier for him than it would be for XSF. Johnson could be a darkhorse for RG too as he's projected best at guard.

If they get extensions for AJ and/or Mixon done and they have 5-6 mil left over, then I believe Peters will be brought in and we could see a lineup of

Peters-MJ-Hopkins-XSF-Williams

Peters might be willing to play RT but I also don't think it'd be the end of the world if Jonah played RT his first year. He has more than enough experience at RT in comparison to Peters and it'll be less pressure for him coming off the injury. Plus, Peters would be a major addition in experience and leadership and that can't be overlooked. Palmer had Willie, Dalton had Whit. Burrow definitely needs that guy on the OL.

[JSR18]

(05-03-2020, 07:52 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Billy Price could go a long way to help build this o line up. I do not have much faith in him like about all of you but it only matters if he has faith in himself. He was a first round pick for a reason and a lot of other teams had him as a first or second round pick as well so he has talent. If he could play good enough to lock down a starting spot at guard or center it would help our o line a great deal.

I agree with this. I also think its a matter of buying in. He was a Center in college, and by all intents a decent-good one. First round in the NFL Draft. His rookie year he was hurt in the off season, comes back to start, and gets hurt in year and just doesn't get close to a round 1 Center. The following year (new HC and staff) he's told you suck. Not starting at Center, not starting at Guard. That had to be a blow to his ego/manhood. I think its 85-90 % mental.

Maybe all he needs to do is re-engage himself. Think of it as "I'm a 1st round Guard".

A visit to a sports shrink probably wouldn't hurt...

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[Circleville Guy]

The Bengals have no returning linemen with at least 500 snaps last season that were rated in the top 50% at their position. I read that somewhere but forget where. That’s a scary thought though when their big addition is coming off of a major injury and has never played a snap in the league. The front office did some great things this offseason. Addressing the OL aggressively wasn’t one of them. I know that they had many needs but it seems Oline should’ve been higher on the priority list.