Joe speaks out

[BacknDaDey]

I am a retired African American vet who did my time in Desert Storm, Desert Shield, Iraqi Freedom, Bosnia, Afghanistan and whatever other God awful hell hole I was sent too. I saw first hand some of my comrades fall. I fought for the so-called freedom of others, foreign and domestic. I fought to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States. I am going to say this with all sincerity. Colin Kaepernick DID NOT in my opinion disrespect the flag, military personnel or the United States of America. I fought and served for Kaepernick and others to be able to protest including the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and any other anti-black organizations. Everyone has a right to protest. There is no law that says it is unlawful to kneel during the National Anthem. He DID NOT kneel to show disrespect to anyone or anything. He kneeled to bring attention to police brutality towards people of color. It's a shame that I have more anxiety for a police cruiser coming up behind me, here in the states, than I had for an IED potentially exploding under my vehicle in Iraq. If you have more of a problem with Kaep taking a knee during the National Anthem than you do Neo-Nazi's, KKK or any white racists going into a State Capital building fully armed with military gear, then the United States of American has a serious relations problem!

Kaepernick was black-balled from playing in the NFL. He won a lawsuit against the NFL for that reason. (settled out of court)

I served all them years and I now do not stand for the National Anthem myself. The 3rd verse of the poem has racial overtones in it. When Francis Scott Key wrote it he owned slaves. When he wrote it, it was not about "O'er Land of the Free", because he had slaves. He wrote that Hirelings and Slaves would not find refuge in the 3rd verse. Hirelings were very low-paid, menial working, whites and free blacks. He later released them almost 2 decades later but he never denounced slavery. "America the Beautiful" should be the National Anthem in my opinion.

I applaud Burrow for speaking up. I applaud Kaepernick for taking his knee. And I don't condone looting and destruction or injuring a person during a protest.

[Bengalholic]

(06-01-2020, 08:42 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I will always be against "taking a knee" when the national anthem is played.  My uncle came home from Vietnam in a coffin draped in the flag of this country and I'm not going to support some millionaire disrespecting this country, our anthem, and our flag.  Kneeling during the national anthlem prior to a football game does nothing to help any problems.

The whole idea of 'kneeling' came from a military veteran - a former Green Beret took issue with CK's sitting on bench during the anthem. He thought it would be a good compromise, and a respectful way of protesting, even if he didn't fully agree with it:

'You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.'

'And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.'

'And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.'

'In my experience, kneeling's never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful.'

'We live in a time where there's not a lot of respect for our fellow man. I don't think people should stand with pride for something that they don't believe in, period. I just don't think that. I think if you don't feel that way, then let's fix it. Let's work together to make this situation better. Because I want you to want to stand. I want you to want to feel that same type of pride that I feel.'

'What I've fought for, what we all fought for - whether we like it or not, we can say we don't like it all day - but we took an oath to defend the Constitution. And I fought to defend our rights, which obviously include the first amendment, you know, which is free speech. And I don't have to agree with or even like what people do sometimes. But I have defended the right of someone to stand right in front of my face and burn an American flag, you know, and call me a baby killer or call me whatever they want. I still fought for that.'

'What makes it very difficult, and it can be hurtful because it's just - you can say a protest or a campaign or you can say anything is about a specific idea. You can say, like, look. It's not about this. It's about this. I'm not - I don't hate America. I'm not disrespecting the flag. This is not about veterans. This is about people of color and the criminal justice system and all that. But you also don't get to choose how people perceive things. And that's what makes this even more difficult and just tougher for just a lot of people - I'm not going to say just people in camouflage, but all of us as Americans.'

- Nate Boyer

[*Nately120*]

Americans - "I want my politics and entertainment kept separate, dag nabbit!"
Also Americans - "Hey, let's make this celebrity with no political experience the president!"


You can't have your cake and it eat to, ya gluttons!  Also, for all we know Colin Kaepernick could be the president in 2028 or something.  The horse is out of the barn! As the late great Gorilla Monsoon would say "It's pandemonium!"

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 05:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole idea of 'kneeling' came from a military veteran - a former Green Beret took issue with CK's sitting on bench during the anthem. He thought it would be a good compromise, and a respectful way of protesting, even if he didn't fully agree with it:

'You know, this was two years ago, 2016 during the preseason. And he, you know, had sat on the bench. And I think it was actually his third time he'd sat on the bench. But it was the first time it had received national attention. And, you know, he got questioned about it, and he said, well, I'm not going to stand for the flag of a country that oppresses black people and people of color. And then he talked about, you know, social injustices and police brutality and why he thought, you know, he shouldn't be standing for the anthem.'

'And it struck a chord with me, of course, and it struck a chord with a lot of people - a lot of people in the veteran community as well - because obviously the flag and the anthem and what that stuff stands for means something, you know, very different to us. And I was pretty upset, you know, just because I felt like he didn't understand what those symbols really represent. And - but instead of letting my anger overwhelm me, I decided to relax a little bit, and I wrote this open letter that was just explaining my experiences, my relationship to the flag.'

'And Colin actually reached out, said he wanted to meet with me. And we sat in the lobby of the team hotel, discussed our situation, our different opinions and feelings about all this. And I suggested him taking a knee instead of sitting even though I wanted him to stand, and he wanted to sit. And it was, like, this compromise that we sort of came to. And that's where the kneeling began.'

'In my experience, kneeling's never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful.'

'We live in a time where there's not a lot of respect for our fellow man. I don't think people should stand with pride for something that they don't believe in, period. I just don't think that. I think if you don't feel that way, then let's fix it. Let's work together to make this situation better. Because I want you to want to stand. I want you to want to feel that same type of pride that I feel.'

'What I've fought for, what we all fought for - whether we like it or not, we can say we don't like it all day - but we took an oath to defend the Constitution. And I fought to defend our rights, which obviously include the first amendment, you know, which is free speech. And I don't have to agree with or even like what people do sometimes. But I have defended the right of someone to stand right in front of my face and burn an American flag, you know, and call me a baby killer or call me whatever they want. I still fought for that.'

'What makes it very difficult, and it can be hurtful because it's just - you can say a protest or a campaign or you can say anything is about a specific idea. You can say, like, look. It's not about this. It's about this. I'm not - I don't hate America. I'm not disrespecting the flag. This is not about veterans. This is about people of color and the criminal justice system and all that. But you also don't get to choose how people perceive things. And that's what makes this even more difficult and just tougher for just a lot of people - I'm not going to say just people in camouflage, but all of us as Americans.'

- Nate Boyer

We'll have to disagree on that.  I sat out the NFL a couple of seasons ago, and if a Bengal kneels, I'm out again.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-03-2020, 07:57 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I'm sorry for your losses too.  However, when the riots include attacking, injuring, and even killing police officers, how do you justify that?  Now a retired African American Police Captain, David Dorn, has been murdered in cold blood during these riots.  Is he not as important as George Floyd? Where's the media outrage?  The crazy thing is, the majority agreed, Republican, Democrat, and Independent,  this was excessive force in the George Floyd case. The vast majority, including me, agreed the police officer Chauvin should be tried and convicted in a court of law.  I agree with peaceful protests, but what justice is it when the protesters against the murder of a black man start murdering black men? I strongly believe that Antifa is the group committing the majority of the violence for their own purposes, and they don't give a rat's ass about George Floyd or anything besides their own agenda.

Damn rights Bonnie, feel the exact same.

Those Antifa shits don't give a damn about George Floyd, they are even paid to do what they do and stoke the fires.

The ones that are supposedly peacefully protesting are not though cause they let them do what they do and go right along 
enabling them. You don't use a man's murder for reasons to murder, loot and destroy.

(06-03-2020, 09:03 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

And there's another portion of the "protesters" that could care less about it either. They're just out trying to gain free 70" TV's.

Spot on brother.

We all hated seeing what happened to George Floyd, what exactly do they think they are accomplishing besides getting free TV's?

All I know is I am disgusted in what I see. Just makes me have less faith in humanity.

[JSR18]

I have a question to anybody who thinks Kaepernik's "stance" isn't related to the flag and our national anthem.

If all that he's protesting is police brutality against unarmed black men why not do his protesting on Tuesday afternoon or whatever his day off is on his own time??[emoji848]

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-03-2020, 09:43 PM)JSR18 Wrote: I have a question to anybody who thinks Kaepernik's "stance" isn't related to the flag and our national anthem.

If all that he's protesting is police brutality against unarmed black men why not do his protesting on Tuesday afternoon or whatever his day off is on his own time??[emoji848]

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Good question. I would say cause he wanted the attention and hates America and is not smart enough to go on a show and speak.

He wore Fidel Castro shirts for God sake and promoted Communism. Anyone defending him is just weird to me.

Kaep hates this country, hence why I don't care for him. I can understand someone that has been brought down by this country 
disliking it,but not someone who has lived a great life because of this country. He should love this country for giving him so many
great things.

I am not a rich man by any means but I have the ability to build a business and do well and am grateful for it.

People in Communist and Socialist countries do not have it so good.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 09:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good question. I would say cause he wanted the attention and hates America and is not smart enough to go on a show and speak.

He wore Fidel Castro shirts for God sake and promoted Communism. Anyone defending him is just weird to me.

Kaep hates this country, hence why I don't care for him. I can understand someone that has been brought down by this country 
disliking it,but not someone who has lived a great life because of this country. He should love this country for giving him so many
great things.

I am not a rich man by any means but I have the ability to build a business and do well and am grateful for it.

People in Communist and Socialist countries do not have it so good.

All he did was kneel during football games.  I never saw him do anything meaningful the rest of the week.

[*Synric*]

(06-03-2020, 05:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole idea of 'kneeling' came from a military veteran - a former Green Beret took issue with CK's sitting on bench during the anthem. He thought it would be a good compromise, and a respectful way of protesting, even if he didn't fully agree with it:

Problem was it did offend millions and the kneeling became bigger than the cause he was fighting for...

Kaepernick did it wrong. 

All he had to do was apologize and say he did not mean to offend veterans or the millions of Americans he was just protesting against police brutality. The truth is even if it was taken negatively he had capture the attention of the American people and with a simple apology he could have turned that negative publicity into a positive for his cause. Instead he continued to offend millions which cost him his job and future employment.

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 09:57 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: All he did was kneel during football games.  I never saw him do anything meaningful the rest of the week.

Do some research then

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 09:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good question. I would say cause he wanted the attention and hates America and is not smart enough to go on a show and speak.

He wore Fidel Castro shirts for God sake and promoted Communism. Anyone defending him is just weird to me.

Kaep hates this country, hence why I don't care for him. I can understand someone that has been brought down by this country 
disliking it,but not someone who has lived a great life because of this country. He should love this country for giving him so many
great things.

I am not a rich man by any means but I have the ability to build a business and do well and am grateful for it.

People in Communist and Socialist countries do not have it so good.

You just don’t get it. Never will.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 10:48 PM)N_B Wrote: Do some research then

That's not how you debate.  Do your own research.

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 11:03 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: That's not how you debate.  Do your own research.

It’s not a “debate.” You expressed an ignorant viewpoint as to not knowing what Colin had done outside of kneeling. Educate yourself

[*bfine32*]

(06-03-2020, 05:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole idea of 'kneeling' came from a military veteran - 
- Nate Boyer

It came from A military veteran that spent a total of 6 years in the military. 

Let's not pretend the military as a whole supports not standing during honors to the colors. 

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 11:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It came from A military veteran that spent a total of 6 years in the military. 

Let's not pretend the military as a whole supports not standing during honors to the colors. 

I think it’s pretty divided. The Gentleman who just posted here has a good viewpoint

I also don’t understand how spending 6 years in the military invalidates his opinion. He did more than 99% of us

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 11:24 PM)N_B Wrote: It’s not a “debate.” You expressed an ignorant viewpoint as to not knowing what Colin had done outside of kneeling. Educate yourself

If you think I’m wrong then prove me wrong. You’re making comments with no facts and then telling me to do your research for you.

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 11:35 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: If you think I’m wrong then prove me wrong. You’re making comments with no facts and then telling me to do your research for you.

Sigh. Here’s a literally page one of a google search. If you said “the sky is orange” it’s not up to me to correct you. You’re just wrong.

https://www.sportscasting.com/how-much-money-has-colin-kaepernick-donated-to-charity-over-the-years/

[*bfine32*]

(06-03-2020, 11:37 PM)N_B Wrote: Sigh.  Here’s a literally page one of a google search.  If you said “the sky is orange” it’s not up to me to correct you.  You’re just wrong.

https://www.sportscasting.com/how-much-money-has-colin-kaepernick-donated-to-charity-over-the-years/

[N_B]

(06-03-2020, 11:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

Lol. Touche

[jmccracky]

(06-03-2020, 05:32 PM)BacknDaDey Wrote: I am a retired African American vet who did my time in Desert Storm, Desert Shield, Iraqi Freedom, Bosnia, Afghanistan and whatever other God awful hell hole I was sent too.  I saw first hand some of my comrades fall.  I fought for the so-called freedom of others, foreign and domestic.  I fought to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States.  I am going to say this with all sincerity.  Colin Kaepernick DID NOT in my opinion disrespect the flag, military personnel or the United States of America.  I fought and served for Kaepernick and others to be able to protest including the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and any other anti-black organizations.  Everyone has a right to protest.  There is no law that says it is unlawful to kneel during the National Anthem.  He DID NOT kneel to show disrespect to anyone or anything.  He kneeled to bring attention to police brutality towards people of color.  It's a shame that I have more anxiety for a police cruiser coming up behind me, here in the states, than I had for an IED potentially exploding under my vehicle in Iraq.  If you have more of a problem with Kaep taking a knee during the National Anthem than you do Neo-Nazi's, KKK or any white racists going into a State Capital building fully armed with military gear, then the United States of American has a serious relations problem!

Kaepernick was black-balled from playing in the NFL.  He won a lawsuit against the NFL for that reason. (settled out of court)

I served all them years and I now do not stand for the National Anthem myself.  The 3rd verse of the poem has racial overtones in it.  When Francis Scott Key wrote it he owned slaves.  When he wrote it, it was not about "O'er Land of the Free", because he had slaves.  He wrote that Hirelings and Slaves would not find refuge in the 3rd verse.  Hirelings were very low-paid, menial working, whites and free blacks.  He later released them almost 2 decades later but he never denounced slavery.  "America the Beautiful" should be the National Anthem in my opinion.

I applaud Burrow for speaking up.  I applaud Kaepernick for taking his knee.  And I don't condone looting and destruction or injuring a person during a protest.

This is exactly how I feel, man. And thank you for your service. That goes to all of my brothers and sisters who have served and are still serving.