Joe speaks out

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 11:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote:

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:23 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote:

You want to answer my post or deflect?

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 12:26 AM)N_B Wrote: You want to answer my post or deflect?

You said nothing. You expect me to go to some link and make your point for you.  Make a point, man.  Tell me what Kaepernick has done.  I'm not going to make it for you.  Or you can just keep pouting and saying I'm wrong.  Your call.  

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:28 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You said nothing. You expect me to go to some link and make your point for you.  Make a point, man.  Tell me what Kaepernick has done.  I'm not going to make it for you.  Or you can just keep pouting and saying I'm wrong.  Your call.  

You really that lazy? He’s donated over a million dollars and countless hours volunteering. You just don’t hear about it because you’re ignorant, willfully or otherwise. In fact, he makes the point of how his protest started- because of people like you who don’t notice and or care what volunteer work people are doing. The link I provided is actual evidence of that. Lord

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:28 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You said nothing. You expect me to go to some link and make your point for you.  Make a point, man.  Tell me what Kaepernick has done.  I'm not going to make it for you.  Or you can just keep pouting and saying I'm wrong.  Your call.  

And lol at me “pouting” - says someone who won’t watch football because a player kneels during the freaking anthem. Get a clue. What I wouldn’t pay to see Burrow knee week 1

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 12:30 AM)N_B Wrote: You really that lazy?  He’s donated over a million dollars and countless hours volunteering.  You just don’t hear about it because you’re ignorant, willfully or otherwise.  In fact, he makes the point of how his protest started- because of people like you who don’t notice and or care what volunteer work people are doing. The link I provided is actual evidence of that.  Lord

You're the one who is lazy.  So who did he donate to and where did he volunteer, and how did that volunteering help the black community? Or you can just keep calling me names.  I said I hadn't seen him do anything but kneel.  Your response was not to tell me what he has done, but to attack me.  

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:34 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You're the one who is lazy.  So who did he donate to and where did he volunteer, and how did that volunteering help the black community? Or you can just keep calling me names.  I said I hadn't seen him do anything but kneel.  Your response was not to tell me what he has done, but to attack me.  

Why would I rehash something that you can just read from the link provided? Why would I waste my time?

This article sums it up nicely - it takes only a minute to read. I can copy paste it if it’s easier

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/927811001

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 12:32 AM)N_B Wrote: And lol at me “pouting” - says someone who won’t watch football because a player kneels during the freaking anthem.  Get a clue.  What I wouldn’t pay to see Burrow knee week 1

My country is more important to me than football.  My uncle's sacrifice of his life for his country 3 days before his 21st birthday is more important to me than football.  The 20 years my husband served is more important to me than football.  I fully expect a Bengal will kneel and I'll have to sit out the season, and so be it.

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:36 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: My country is more important to me than football.  My uncle's sacrifice of his life for his country 3 days before his 21st birthday is more important to me than football.  The 20 years my husband served is more important to me than football.  I fully expect a Bengal will kneel and I'll have to sit out the season, and so be it.

Your family’s service is admirable and should be thanked profusely. The players kneeling during the anthem is, as they’ve said ad nauseum, not a protest against that.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 12:35 AM)N_B Wrote: Why would I rehash something that you can just read from the link provided?  Why would I waste my time?

This article sums it up nicely - it takes only a minute to read.  I can copy paste it if it’s easier

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/927811001

You really don't know how to have a discussion on a message board. You can provide a link, sure, but if you're going to namecall me and call me ignorant, then you need to back up your point with your own argument.  You want me to do all the work, which has been the problem with this whole discussion.  You're going on ignore soon, because I'm tired of wasting my time.

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 12:39 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You really don't know how to have a discussion on a message board. You can provide a link, sure, but if you're going to namecall me and call me ignorant, then you need to back up your point with your own argument.  You want me to do all the work, which has been the problem with this whole discussion.  You're going on ignore soon, because I'm tired of wasting my time.

Already there. Have a good night

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 12:37 AM)N_B Wrote: Your family’s service is admirable and should be thanked profusely.  The players kneeling during the anthem is, as they’ve said ad nauseum, not a protest against that.

It's an insult to my family and many others who have served.  That's how we feel.  Don't tell us how to feel.

[Essex Johnson]

Question for administrators why do we still have this thread. This is not football related it is political issue I dont see much difference on this thread than the national anthem.

[fredtoast]

(06-04-2020, 12:39 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You really don't know how to have a discussion on a message board. You can provide a link, sure, but if you're going to namecall me and call me ignorant, then you need to back up your point with your own argument.  You want me to do all the work, which has been the problem with this whole discussion.  You're going on ignore soon, because I'm tired of wasting my time.

He provided you the link to the information. When you said you did not know what all Kaepernick had done you were basically bragging about your ignorance.  You did not know what you were talking about because you only want to hear things that support your own opinion.

As for offending the military, you have no say in that.  You are not a veteran and you have no authority to say what offends veterans.  In fact many veterans supported what Kaepernick did.  

So you can claim that what Kaepernick did offended you or your family members but you can not wrap yourself in the flag and claim to speak for all veterans.  When you do that you are basically calling a lot of veterans un-american and that is WORSE than anything Keapernick ever did.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-04-2020, 09:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He provided you the link to the information. When you said you did not know what all Kaepernick had done you were basically bragging about your ignorance.  You did not know what you were talking about because you only want to hear things that support your own opinion.

As for offending the military, you have no say in that.  You are not a veteran and you have no authority to say what offends veterans.  In fact many veterans supported what Kaepernick did.  

So you can claim that what Kaepernick did offended you or your family members but you can not wrap yourself in the flag and claim to speak for all veterans.  When you do that you are basically calling a lot of veterans un-american and that is WORSE than anything Keapernick ever did.

I only speak for how I feel and how my family feels and many others I know who feel that way. I never claimed to speak for all veterans. As for that other dude I just wanted him to do his own arguing. He finally posted a link but didn’t support it. Bravo to him for getting you to do his arguing for him.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-03-2020, 06:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Americans - "I want my politics and entertainment kept separate, dag nabbit!"
Also Americans - "Hey, let's make this celebrity with no political experience the president!"


You can't have your cake and it eat to, ya gluttons!  Also, for all we know Colin Kaepernick could be the president in 2028 or something.  The horse is out of the barn! As the late great Gorilla Monsoon would say "It's pandemonium!"

I must say, it is borderline sickening/harassment on Twitter right now, of people literally tagging celebrities and sports teams, etc., and tweeting to them, "why haven't you said anything yet? Aren't you gonna give your 2 cents? etc.."

Jesus Christ; if people want to comment, they'll comment. If people want to make a difference, who says they have to take to Twitter before doing so?

[*Synric*]

(06-04-2020, 09:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He provided you the link to the information. When you said you did not know what all Kaepernick had done you were basically bragging about your ignorance.  You did not know what you were talking about because you only want to hear things that support your own opinion.

As for offending the military, you have no say in that.  You are not a veteran and you have no authority to say what offends veterans.  In fact many veterans supported what Kaepernick did.  

So you can claim that what Kaepernick did offended you or your family members but you can not wrap yourself in the flag and claim to speak for all veterans.  When you do that you are basically calling a lot of veterans un-american and that is WORSE than anything Keapernick ever did.

Actually like the rest of most Americans veterans were split on the subject of kneeling. 

Fact is the protest of kneeling offended millions and it became bigger than the message about police brutality. If Kaepernick was smart he would have apologized stopped kneeling and used the publicity he gained from kneeling to talk about his cause.

Sad thing is the kneeling worked it grabbed the attention of the entire United States but Kaepernick didnt capitalize. He could have done something special but instead he screwed it up allowing the kneeling to become a bigger story than the cause he was fighting for...

[Wes Mantooth]

Kaepernick's situation (being out of the league) can, in my very humble opinion, be described simply as him not being good enough to warrant the distraction.

People will claim he was "blackballed" or chased out of the league only for his political views, which I don't think is an enitrely fair description of the events.  It's not just the politics involved themselves, but it's everything that came with them.  Simply put, it then becomes a business decision.  NOT a political one.

Just to play Devil's advocate, let's change both the player and their stance.  And for good measure, since this is often a racial discussion, we'll change the race of the player as well.  Let's say you take a current and comparable QB talent to him.  We can use someone like Blake Bortles or Chad Henne, it really isn't all that important as everything is hypothetical.  And let's change the stance to this QB currently immersing himself into, I don't know, the Blue Lives Matter movement.

If Blake Bortles chooses to publically support this movement, at this time, needless to say there will be controvery and backlash. If he then chooses to continue to put himself in the forefront of the discussion it's going to create more and more scrutiny for both his team and the league.  When training camp opens and gobs and gobs of media descend on to that facility that organization is going to have deal with a lot of headache and distraction that really has little to do with what they're ultimately trying to do.  WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

At some point, a team is going to have to ask themselves, it it really worth it for us to deal with all of this for a QB that's not so great?  Is Blake Bortles really worth the headache of dealing with this much media scrutiny and attention?  Is it fair to the otherr 75+ guys in our building to be bombarded with questions about one single player?

The answer to that question is no, no it is not.  Blake Bortles is not worth that type of distraction.  And while you can claim he's not employed only because he supports Blue Lives Matter, that's not exactly telling the whole story.  He's not employed because he's made this cause a focal point, and he's brought way too much controvery along with it.

And let's be honest here.  Kaepernick didn't just silently take a knee as many claim.  He wore PIG socks that were depictions of cops onto a NFL field. That's cleary someone who's drawing attention to themselves.  That is not at all a single silent gesture.  He also gave countless interviews whenever he could. While the act of kneeling is silent, everything else surrounding him was anything but.

This isn't to say he shouldn't be allowed to do these things.  That's not my point.  My point is it's disinegenous to claim all he did was silently take a knee.  Again, he chose to insert himself into a controversial issue.  Again, and again, again.  And if you want to applaud him for that, then that's your right.  But you do have to look at the big picture as to why he found himself without a lot of offers.

If Blake Bortles does the above, he's likely to be out of job next year.  If Case Keenum made the NRA a cause he brought up often, and then chose to wear controversial attire it would become a BIG problem. If he, say, wore a shirt mocking David Hogg from Parkland, chances are he too becomes not worth it.  He's just not good enough.  And really, I'm not sure any player is.

This is a billions upon billions of dollar business.  Everything in the end comes down to money.  Your stance could be that peanut butter and jelly is better than pizza, and if that starts affecting advertising and viewership it's going to be an issue.  If it results in an inordiante of media coverage, then a team might be reluctant to sign you.

And lastly, let's not pretend Kaeprnick ever had any attention of continuing his career.  Guys who are out of the league almost always find work in a lesser league.  They go to the CFL to keep themselves in shape and to build tape and to show they can still play.  He did not do that.  He did nothing.  He also refused a backup offer from the Broncos and chose, AGAIN, to turn his recent workout into media circus.  He made his choice a long time ago.  Activist over NFL player.  And that's fine.  But you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.  You can't say I want all of this attention, and I wan't to be known for making this huge sacrifice, and then turn around and claim you really just wanted to play football and this isn't fair.

Fwiw, I personally think there's countless more genuine and better people that surround these current issues.  I personally think Kaepernick may even have started with the best intentions, but has turned into more than a bit of disingenous blowhard, who is more concerned with his image and HIMSELF more than anything else.  Don't be fooled.  He's profited greatly thoughout this saga.  He's made more by this sacrifice then he would have had as a backup. And it's hard to take seriously a man who champions himself as a human rights advocate that takes a "top end" endorsement deal with a company like Nike.  It's hypocracy at it's finest.  I really wish we would choose to focus on so many others.  He just doesn't strike me as someone who is at all authentic about his intentions and motivations.  But that's just my 2 cents on him. ...

[N_B]

(06-04-2020, 11:35 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Kaepernick's situation (being out of the league) can, in my very humble opinion, be described simply as him not being good enough to warrant the distraction.

People will claim he was "blackballed" or chased out of the league only for his political views, which I don't think is an enitrely fair description of the events.  It's not just the politics involved themselves, but it's everything that came with them.  Simply put, it then becomes a business decision.  NOT a political one.

Just to play Devil's advocate, let's change both the player and their stance.  And for good measure, since this is often a racial discussion, we'll change the race of the player as well.  Let's say you take a current and comparable QB talent to him.  We can use someone like Blake Bortles or Chad Henne, it really isn't all that important as everything is hypothetical.  And let's change the stance to this QB currently immersing himself into, I don't know, the Blue Lives Matter movement.

If Blake Bortles chooses to publically support this movement, at this time, needless to say there will be controvery and backlash. If he then chooses to continue to put himself in the forefront of the discussion it's going to create more and more scrutiny for both his team and the league.  When training camp opens and gobs and gobs of media descend on to that facility that organization is going to have deal with a lot of headache and distraction that really has little to do with what they're ultimately trying to do.  WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

At some point, a team is going to have to ask themselves, it it really worth it for us to deal with all of this for a QB that's not so great?  Is Blake Bortles really worth the headache of dealing with this much media scrutiny and attention?  Is it fair to the otherr 75+ guys in our building to be bombarded with questions about one single player?

The answer to that question is no, no it is not.  Blake Bortles is not worth that type of distraction.  And while you can claim he's not employed only because he supports Blue Lives Matter, that's not exactly telling the whole story.  He's not employed because he's made this cause a focal point, and he's brought way too much controvery along with it.

And let's be honest here.  Kaepernick didn't just silently take a knee as many claim.  He wore PIG socks that were depictions of cops onto a NFL field. That's cleary someone who's drawing attention to themselves.  That is not at all a single silent gesture.  He also gave countless interviews whenever he could. While the act of kneeling is silent, everything else surrounding him was anything but.

This isn't to say he shouldn't be allowed to do these things.  That's not my point.  My point is it's disinegenous to claim all he did was silently take a knee.  Again, he chose to insert himself into a controversial issue.  Again, and again, again.  And if you want to applaud him for that, then that's your right.  But you do have to look at the big picture as to why he found himself without a lot of offers.

If Blake Bortles does the above, he's likely to be out of job next year.  If Case Keenum made the NRA a cause he brought up often, and then chose to wear controversial attire it would become a BIG problem. If he, say, wore a shirt mocking David Hogg from Parkland, chances are he too becomes not worth it.  He's just not good enough.  And really, I'm not sure any player is.

This is a billions upon billions of dollar business.  Everything in the end comes down to money.  Your stance could be that peanut butter and jelly is better than pizza, and if that starts affecting advertising and viewership it's going to be an issue.  If it results in an inordiante of media coverage, then a team might be reluctant to sign you.

And lastly, let's not pretend Kaeprnick ever had any attention of continuing his career.  Guys who are out of the league almost always find work in a lesser league.  They go to the CFL to keep themselves in shape and to build tape and to show they can still play.  He did not do that.  He did nothing.  He also refused a backup offer from the Broncos and chose, AGAIN, to turn his recent workout into media circus.  He made his choice a long time ago.  Activist over NFL player.  And that's fine.  But you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.  You can't say I want all of this attention, and I wan't to be known for making this huge sacrifice, and then turn around and claim you really just wanted to play football and this isn't fair.

Fwiw, I personally think there's countless more genuine and better people that surround these current issues.  I personally think Kaepernick may even have started with the best intentions, but has turned into more than a bit of disingenous blowhard, who is more concerned with his image and HIMSELF more than anything else.  Don't be fooled.  He's profited greatly thoughout this saga.  He's made more by this sacrifice then he would have had as a backup. And it's hard to take seriously a man who champions himself as a human rights advocate that takes a "top end" endorsement deal with a company like Nike.  It's hypocracy at it's finest.  I really wish we would choose to focus on so many others.  He just doesn't strike me as someone who is at all authentic about his intentions and motivations.  But that's just my 2 cents on him. ...

I can dig that

[*Nately120*]

Here is a headline for Steelers fans: Joe Burrow already causing infighting among Bengals fans.