Let's not sleep on Auden Tate in the WR mix

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-04-2020, 04:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: Auden Tate was tied for the second lowest catch % on the Bengals last year.  Mind you, that's not just among WR's.  That's among all players that were targeted with passes.  The catch % for the entire team was 60.4%.  Tate's was 50%.  The only player with a worse catch % on the team was Stanley Morgan.

Tate catches passes at a rate over 10% worse than the team as a whole.  You can't blame the QB for a guy who's making catches at a less than average rate compared to his teammates.

The reality if you look at his highlights is that most of these spectacular grabs are back shoulder throws where Tate is smothered by the defender and the QB is forced to throw away from the defender.  They look more spectacular because he likes to jump and rotate in the air rather than break down and use his feet to adjust his body position.  But he's making highlight reel grabs because he can't get the separation to to make routine looking ones.

Yeah, he definitely isn't good at getting separation that is for sure, I would just have to see the passes to know for sure he just
has bad hands as you are pretty much alluding to. Just hope we don't have to rely on him if AJ and Ross go down to injury again.

(06-04-2020, 04:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: I hear he ranks 1st in off-season hype threads among WR's that have caught less than half of their career targets, though.

I am not hyping Tate, just saying he is a big body in the Red Zone that did well in college catching TD's.

Was just hoping for it to translate.

[Whatever]

(06-04-2020, 06:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, he definitely isn't good at getting separation that is for sure, I would just have to see the passes to know for sure he just
has bad hands as you are pretty much alluding to. Just hope we don't have to rely on him if AJ and Ross go down to injury again.



I am not hyping Tate, just saying he is a big body in the Red Zone that did well in college catching TD's.

Was just hoping for it to translate.

He doesn't have bad hands.  The problem is he doesn't get separation and the QB has to try to put it somewhere only he can get it, which makes for highlight reel grabs with a low catch %.  

I don't have an issue with the guy as a backup, but there's no way I'm playing him ahead of a healthy Green, Boyd, Higgins, or Ross, like some have suggested.  

I know you haven't started them, but it seems like there's a new Auden Tate thread every week.  There's a lot of other players to be excited about.  Kinda sad that a guy like Tate is getting more threads trying to pump him up than guys like Higgins, DJ Reader, Vonn Bell, etc.

[GreenCornBengal]

Someone finish this joke better than I did please:

Knock knock.

Whose there?

Auden.

Auden who?

Auden ya put me in the starting lineup?...


That joke was as much of a reach as most his catches, sorry guys.

[Bengalitis]

All I remember it was mostly between Malone and Tate, and I think Malone was the favorite. So to Tate's credit, he won out. I think he made some really good catches. Just wondering, what happened to Malone, did he go to some other team's PSquad?

[fredtoast]

(06-04-2020, 08:41 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Someone finish this joke better than I did please:

Knock knock.

Whose there?

Auden.

Auden who?

Auden ya put me in the starting lineup?...


That joke was as much of a reach as most his catches, sorry guys.

Knock Knock

Whose there?

Auden

Auden who?

Auden Tate

Who?

[fredtoast]

Going back to the OP.

I would never sleep on Auden Tate.

He just does not look comfortable at all.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-04-2020, 08:44 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: All I remember it was mostly between Malone and Tate, and I think Malone was the favorite. So to Tate's credit, he won out. I think he made some really good catches. Just wondering, what happened to Malone, did he go to some other team's PSquad?

NYJ. Played in 2 games last season. Probably on ST.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-04-2020, 06:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: He doesn't have bad hands.  The problem is he doesn't get separation and the QB has to try to put it somewhere only he can get it, which makes for highlight reel grabs with a low catch %.  

I don't have an issue with the guy as a backup, but there's no way I'm playing him ahead of a healthy Green, Boyd, Higgins, or Ross, like some have suggested.  

I know you haven't started them, but it seems like there's a new Auden Tate thread every week.  There's a lot of other players to be excited about.  Kinda sad that a guy like Tate is getting more threads trying to pump him up than guys like Higgins, DJ Reader, Vonn Bell, etc.

Or Germaine Pratt...

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-03-2020, 09:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It amazes my how so many Bengal fans act like thye have never seen a WR over 6'4" before.  Everytime some tall scrub shows up in training camp he is immediately a great red zone weapon.  The fact is that big slow guys like Auden Tate are a dime a dozen.  It takes A LOT MORE than just being tall to be an effective WR.

Tate put up numbers last year becasue our WR corps was shredded with injury.  He will barely see the field this year unless we are hit hard with injuries again.

Disagree.  Not necessarily about the tall part, but that you discount his performance as only because of injuries to other players.  That is what gave him his opportunity, and he developed throughout the year.  He only played in 12 games and still managed 575 yards receiving.  The biggest knock on him is that he doesn't generate a ton of separation.  That is what makes what he did all the more impressive given that he wasn't the 3rd option but often the 2nd.  He was really good in contested catches.  So what if he ran a 4.69 in the 40 yard dash?  There was a lot said about how he didn't get the professional training on how to run a 40, and had poor, upright technique at takeoff.  What makes him special is his hands and his catch radius.

He is a poor man's Michael Thomas.  I can see Burrow trusting him with back shoulder throws and slants after letting Ross or Green clear out an area.  

Taylor has already said numerous times how he envisions a rotation of players at different positions to get everyone involved and keep guys fresh.  

Tate will not be sidelined just because other WRs are healthy.  Just like I said about Boyd, he could eat every well underneath with Green and Ross drawing coverage outside.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-03-2020, 09:11 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Funny you say Jerry Rice because Tate actually ran a faster 40 than Rice. He also ran a faster 40 than Anquan Bolden who I think he has a lot of similarities to. Not all receivers need to be be burning fast. They need to run good routes and use there body properly. Look at Gronk. Pats put him out wide a lot as a reciever and he is no Ussain Bolt. He used his size to match up on small corners and safeties. Tate could be a deadly weapon with a bright offensive mind calling plays. Kyle Shanahan would find a way to use this weapon for sure.

Yep.  And I am hopeful that ZT will as well.  Him, and Burrow, who never seems to lock in on just one target.  He spreads the ball around.  Can't wait to (hopefully) see more targets to Mixon and Gio.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-04-2020, 08:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And some people fall ionto the trap than any of the million or so young men taller than 6'4" can be a good NFL wide receiver.

There are dozens of different things that make a great WR.  Speed is not the only one, but when a player lacks speed he has to be exceptional at something else.  Tate is not exceptional at anything else.  

That is why he was not a great WR in college.  

That is why all 32 teams agreed he was no better than a 7th round pick.

He just is not that good of a WR, and it is absurd to claim that every tall WR taken in the 7th round can be turned into Rob Gronkowski with just the proper coaching.  If all it took was coaching I am sure the Patriots would have a new Gronk by now.

He has exceptional length, wing span, and size (228 lbs).  He also has exceptional hands...kind of important for a WR.  His explosiveness measures were all really low ranked, and that was what caused him to drop to the 7th round.  Remember, that is where the Bengals got Houshmanzadeh.  Tate was projected as a 4th or 5th rounder, but his lack of explosiveness caused him to drop.

So, he isn't a threat to score every time he touches the ball with breakaway speed.  So what?  He did score a TD every 4 receptions his senior year in college, with pathetic QB play.  Teams knew he was the red zone threat and still couldn't stop it.  There is absolutely a role for him in moving the chains and a red zone threat.  

This video talks a bit about his offseason and has a few highlight catches from last year.  Dude looks pretty ripped and ready to go.  

https://www.bengals.com/video/catching-up-with-auden-tate

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-04-2020, 11:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Auden Tate, John Ross, AJ Green, and Alex Erickson are all in a contract year.
The Bengals drafted Higgins high so they likely will find ways to get him involved, limiting Tate's, Ross's, and/or Erickson's snaps.
I'm willing to bet only 1-2 of those guys will be a Bengal beyond this year, as the Bengals won't pay all of them.
For Tate to stay a Bengal beyond this year, he will have to outperform both John Ross and Alex Erickson.

There is almost no way Ross is here after this season.  When a team declines the 5th year option, rarely does that player sign back with them.  It happens, but it is rare.  I think Higgins is going to be eased in behind Ross and Green will likely be extended 3 years.  I think beating out Erickson won't be too hard for Tate as he has a rare ability to grab contested catches and could be a real third down/red zone threat.  

[HarleyDog]

(06-08-2020, 09:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There is almost no way Ross is here after this season.  When a team declines the 5th year option, rarely does that player sign back with them.  It happens, but it is rare.  I think Higgins is going to be eased in behind Ross and Green will likely be extended 3 years.  I think beating out Erickson won't be too hard for Tate as he has a rare ability to grab contested catches and could be a real third down/red zone threat.  

Good scenario and quite possible they go this route. I think a lot will be determined based on Ross's work ethic and availability. If he gets injured again it's probable he is gone. I think there is time this season to earn his respect but he's going to have to work hard for it. If he does, that's just going to make our receiver corp more lethal. But he's got to buckle down and get his focus on not only catching the ball, but also the damn playbook and determination to play when he's banged up a little.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-08-2020, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good scenario and quite possible they go this route. I think a lot will be determined based on Ross's work ethic and availability. If he gets injured again it's probable he is gone. I think there is time this season to earn his respect but he's going to have to work hard for it. If he does, that's just going to make our receiver corp more lethal. But he's got to buckle down and get his focus on not only catching the ball, but also the damn playbook and determination to play when he's banged up a little.

I hope like hell Ross produces this year, but I was talking about next year.  Don't see many scenarios where he is re-signed.  If AJ is awful and plays on the franchise tag (both things very unlikely) combined with Ross exploding and playing 16 games, maybe.  But I think Green will retire a Bengal and Higgins will be the replacement for Ross.  

If you are fielding a WR threesome of Higgins, Tate, and Green (I know Boyd will be on the field more than Tate, but stick with me) your shortest WR is 6'4".  Like fielding a basketball team :)

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-08-2020, 11:01 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good scenario and quite possible they go this route. I think a lot will be determined based on Ross's work ethic and availability. If he gets injured again it's probable he is gone. I think there is time this season to earn his respect but he's going to have to work hard for it. If he does, that's just going to make our receiver corp more lethal. But he's got to buckle down and get his focus on not only catching the ball, but also the damn playbook and determination to play when he's banged up a little.

(06-08-2020, 12:06 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I hope like hell Ross produces this year, but I was talking about next year.  Don't see many scenarios where he is re-signed.  If AJ is awful and plays on the franchise tag (both things very unlikely) combined with Ross exploding and playing 16 games, maybe.  But I think Green will retire a Bengal and Higgins will be the replacement for Ross.  

If you are fielding a WR threesome of Higgins, Tate, and Green (I know Boyd will be on the field more than Tate, but stick with me) your shortest WR is 6'4".  Like fielding a basketball team :)

Agree

Ross is going to have to stay on the field and have a very good season to have any consideration at all. 

[Au165]

I kind of let this one run a while because I have been down this road before with the group here. Auden Tate's catch percentage is severely misleading because his rate of catchable balls was horrible. Catch rate is targets divided by catches but does not take into account the quality of the throw. Now people try to claim "if he had more separation he'd get more catchable balls", but apparently that didn't apply to Mike Williams who got less separation and got far more catchable balls thrown to him. If you actually go back to the tape he was constantly being underthrown or the ball was being put in places that almost no one outside of maybe AJ Green could get them.

He had some throws against the Ravens that were comically bad, and yet he still came down with them. Ball placement matters and that is partially related to types of routes they had Tate running last year. His entire route tree essentially amounted to post, out, fade. In reality, a fade is a low percentage throw, especially by Dalton as for years he has preferred to put the ball to the sideline side forcing receivers to pull it in bounds over risking putting it in play and interceptable. His catch rate on out routes had to been one of the lowest in the league because the balls were simply not thrown well. On the flipside his catch rate on posts were good because he could shield the defender with his fram and make plays, even on poorly thrown balls. His contested catch rate was 20th in the league so if you got him a catchable ball in coverage he was prety good at bringing it in.

I'm not saying Tate is all world, but people who key in on singular stats and disregard the whole picture...or the tape paint the guy in a pretty bad light. I have long held he could be a high end 2 in this league, but considering on this team he is probably a 3/4 he is a great assett to this team.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

His lack of separation and subsequent lack of YAC will always limit him.

Of his 575 yards (73rd) last year, only 120 came after the catch (174th) and he only averaged 3.0 yards after the catch (141st out of 155 qualified).

Hype aside, I am not sure I see how he can be better than a #4 on a fully healthy and/or good team. I am on board with other posters in this thread that his good hands and large body would be best suited to putting on 20 pounds and playing TE. Getting that LB/S matchup might help him a lot.

[*Synric*]

I think Auden Tate can have a future as a big slot/H-Back role similar to how they used Tyler Eifert last year. The Bengals have a solid receiving core with Green Boyd Ross and Higgins so a guy like Tate going 4 or 5 receivers on third down can create mismatches against smaller corners inside.

Bengals are fielding a basketball team with their receiving core of Green Boyd Higgins Tate Uzomah and Sample with a speedy John Ross to thrown in.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-08-2020, 02:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: I kind of let this one run a while because I have been down this road before with the group here. Auden Tate's catch percentage is severely misleading because his rate of catchable balls was horrible. Catch rate is targets divided by catches but does not take into account the quality of the throw. Now people try to claim "if he had more separation he'd get more catchable balls", but apparently that didn't apply to Mike Williams who got less separation and got far more catchable balls thrown to him. If you actually go back to the tape he was constantly being underthrown or the ball was being put in places that almost no one outside of maybe AJ Green could get them.

He had some throws against the Ravens that were comically bad, and yet he still came down with them. Ball placement matters and that is partially related to types of routes they had Tate running last year. His entire route tree essentially amounted to post, out, fade. In reality, a fade is a low percentage throw, especially by Dalton as for years he has preferred to put the ball to the sideline side forcing receivers to pull it in bounds over risking putting it in play and interceptable. His catch rate on out routes had to been one of the lowest in the league because the balls were simply not thrown well. On the flipside his catch rate on posts were good because he could shield the defender with his fram and make plays, even on poorly thrown balls. His contested catch rate was 20th in the league so if you got him a catchable ball in coverage he was prety good at bringing it in.

I'm not saying Tate is all world, but people who key in on singular stats and disregard the whole picture...or the tape paint the guy in a pretty bad light. I have long held he could be a high end 2 in this league, but considering on this team he is probably a 3/4 he is a great assett to this team.

This is what I thought. Hard to judge Tate when the QB's throwing to him are so inaccurate.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-08-2020, 02:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: I kind of let this one run a while because I have been down this road before with the group here. Auden Tate's catch percentage is severely misleading because his rate of catchable balls was horrible. Catch rate is targets divided by catches but does not take into account the quality of the throw. Now people try to claim "if he had more separation he'd get more catchable balls", but apparently that didn't apply to Mike Williams who got less separation and got far more catchable balls thrown to him. If you actually go back to the tape he was constantly being underthrown or the ball was being put in places that almost no one outside of maybe AJ Green could get them.

He had some throws against the Ravens that were comically bad, and yet he still came down with them. Ball placement matters and that is partially related to types of routes they had Tate running last year. His entire route tree essentially amounted to post, out, fade. In reality, a fade is a low percentage throw, especially by Dalton as for years he has preferred to put the ball to the sideline side forcing receivers to pull it in bounds over risking putting it in play and interceptable. His catch rate on out routes had to been one of the lowest in the league because the balls were simply not thrown well. On the flipside his catch rate on posts were good because he could shield the defender with his fram and make plays, even on poorly thrown balls. His contested catch rate was 20th in the league so if you got him a catchable ball in coverage he was prety good at bringing it in.

I'm not saying Tate is all world, but people who key in on singular stats and disregard the whole picture...or the tape paint the guy in a pretty bad light. I have long held he could be a high end 2 in this league, but considering on this team he is probably a 3/4 he is a great assett to this team.

Indeed, some just don't get that. Or just won't admit it.