Injuries and high draft picks

[fredtoast]

Looking at our draft history it is really incredible the amountof injures we have had to our high picks.  I know every team has injuries,but when you look at just our first and second round picks it really seems like there is a bit of a curse.  

It has been SIX years since we had a 1st round pick play more than 10 games (Dennard 14 in '14).  Four of our last five 1st round picks have missed 11 games or more

2019..1st Jonah Wiliams out entire season
.........2nd Drew Sample out 7 games

2018..1st Billy Price out 6 games

2017..1st John Ross out 13 games rookie season and 24 of first 48 total

2016..1st William Jackson out entire rookie season.  Only played one full 16 game season in 4 years.

2015..1st Cedric Ogbuehi out 11 games rookie season.  Never played a full 16 game season.
.........2nd Jake Fisher heart problems in third season end career

2014..1st Darquez Dennard out 8 games over first two seasons and 10 over last two.

2013..1st Tyler Eifert only played 43 games over first 6 seasons (96 games)

2012..1st Dre Kirkpatrick out 11 games rookie season

2010..2nd Carlos Dunlap out 8 games first two seasons

2009..1st Andre Smith out 19 games first two seasons

2008..1st Keith Rivers out 12 games first two seasons

2007..2nd Kenny Irons preseason injury rookie seasons ends career.

2005..1st David Pollack career ending injury in 16th career start.
.........2nd O'Dell Thurman career ended by addiction and/or missing brain after 15 starts

2004..1st Chris Perry plays only 35 games in 4 seasons (64 games)

[Mike M (the other one)]

Problem is, some.of them had known injuries and we still took them. Thats on the Bengals, the ones that didn't have those issues is just football. Also, I thought it was known ahead of time about Thurmans drinking problem to some teams? If that was true, then again its on us not sending our scouts out to look into those character issues with players. At times back then, I think we relied on other peoples scouting reports instead of doing the leg work ourself.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2020, 12:31 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Problem is, some.of them had known injuries and we still took them. Thats on the Bengals,

Lots of high picks have injury issues.  Just look at the year we took Ross at #9.  Three of the guys taken before him had serious injury issues (Myles Garrett, Christian McCaffrey, Leonard Fournette).

I don't think the Bengals draft any more injured players than other teams on average.  And the guy we drafted with the worst injury record in college ended up being pretty durable.  Johnathan Joseph missed 8 games in his third season, but he only missed 5 over his other 4 seasons here.

[GreenCornBengal]

Makes you wonder about our strength and conditioning staff. Also makes you wonder about the medical staff.

It seems so unlikely to have this bad of luck.

[BengalChris]

(06-05-2020, 12:31 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Problem is, some.of them had known injuries and we still took them. Thats on the Bengals, the ones that didn't have those issues is just football. Also, I thought it was known ahead of time about Thurmans drinking problem to some teams? If that was true, then again its on us not sending our scouts out to look into those character issues with players. At times back then, I think we relied on other peoples scouting reports instead of doing the leg work ourself.

(06-05-2020, 12:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lots of high picks have injury issues.  Just look at the year we took Ross at #9.  Three of the guys taken before him had serious injury issues (Myles Garrett, Christian McCaffrey, Leonard Fournette).

I don't think the Bengals draft any more injured players than other teams on average.  And the guy we drafted with the worst injury record in college ended up being pretty durable.  Johnathan Joseph missed 8 games in his third season, but he only missed 5 over his other 4 seasons here.

Yes, the Bengals have had more than their share of injuries from high picks.

But it wasn't just Ross who was drafted with existing injuries. Ogbuehi was drafted while recovering from an ACL, Price was drafted after tearing a muscle at the combine. Jonah Williams likely already had the shoulder injury at Alabama. The first three of those guys turned out to be bad picks and failed to reach anything close to the potential you would expect from their draft position. We'll have to wait and see about Jonah.

Personally I don't believe the team should take any player with substantial injuries in the first round. Sure that might eliminate some talent, but at least you'll have a much better chance of the guy reaching his potential more quickly. Some injured guys never seem to really arrive.

As for Ross, he didn't miss all of those 13 games his rookie season because of injuries. He was a healthy inactive for several games due to ineptness in practice. But in any case, he had a sizeable injury history and pulled a hammy at the combine, something he continues to do, he's only played in one pre-season out of three.

 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2020, 12:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lots of high picks have injury issues.  Just look at the year we took Ross at #9.  Three of the guys taken before him had serious injury issues (Myles Garrett, Christian McCaffrey, Leonard Fournette).

I don't think the Bengals draft any more injured players than other teams on average.  And the guy we drafted with the worst injury record in college ended up being pretty durable.  Johnathan Joseph missed 8 games in his third season, but he only missed 5 over his other 4 seasons here.

You are right on that.  

Question though.

How many times do those teams keep drafting (first 3 rounds) players with injuries year after year?

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2020, 06:19 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You are right on that.  

Question though.

How many times do those teams keep drafting (first 3 rounds) players with injuries year after year?

Just as often as the Bengals do.

[*ochocincos*]

You bring up Dennard being healthy for his rookie year, which has been a rarity for Bengals 1st rd picks in the past 1-2 decades.
It's worth pointing out that while Dennard was available for 14 games, he only played 62 defensive snaps. He was primarily a STer (207 snaps on ST) and 5th CB on the roster behind Hall, Jones, Newman, and DK.

So he also, like his fellow 1st rounders, did not contribute much of anything to offense/defense as a rookie.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-04-2020, 09:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Looking at our draft history it is really incredible the amountof injures we have had to our high picks.  I know every team has injuries,but when you look at just our first and second round picks it really seems like there is a bit of a curse.  

It has been SIX years since we had a 1st round pick play more than 10 games (Dennard 14 in '14).  Four of our last five 1st round picks have missed 11 games or more

2019..1st Jonah Wiliams out entire season
.........2nd Drew Sample out 7 games

2018..1st Billy Price out 6 games

2017..1st John Ross out 13 games rookie season and 24 of first 48 total

2016..1st William Jackson out entire rookie season.  Only played one full 16 game season in 4 years.

2015..1st Cedric Ogbuehi out 11 games rookie season.  Never played a full 16 game season.
.........2nd Jake Fisher heart problems in third season end career

2014..1st Darquez Dennard out 8 games over first two seasons and 10 over last two.

2013..1st Tyler Eifert only played 43 games over first 6 seasons (96 games)

2012..1st Dre Kirkpatrick out 11 games rookie season

2010..2nd Carlos Dunlap out 8 games first two seasons

2009..1st Andre Smith out 19 games first two seasons

2008..1st Keith Rivers out 12 games first two seasons

2007..2nd Kenny Irons preseason injury rookie seasons ends career.

2005..1st David Pollack career ending injury in 16th career start.
.........2nd O'Dell Thurman career ended by addiction and/or missing brain after 15 starts

2004..1st Chris Perry plays only 35 games in 4 seasons (64 games)

One variable that you can;t control very well is injuries.. every year a major players go done with injuries and little of it has to do with strength and conditioning.. 

Very few college athletes that play at a high level come out with a clean bill of healthy either..   It does seem the Bengals have been snake bit for sure with high picks... The two that hurt the most in my life time is Greg Cook and K. Carter... I was young but do remember Cook and Carter I thought was a great pick.. i loved him in college and his style.. so sad for both.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-04-2020, 09:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Looking at our draft history it is really incredible the amountof injures we have had to our high picks.  I know every team has injuries,but when you look at just our first and second round picks it really seems like there is a bit of a curse.  

It has been SIX years since we had a 1st round pick play more than 10 games (Dennard 14 in '14).  Four of our last five 1st round picks have missed 11 games or more

2019..1st Jonah Wiliams out entire season
.........2nd Drew Sample out 7 games

2018..1st Billy Price out 6 games

2017..1st John Ross out 13 games rookie season and 24 of first 48 total

2016..1st William Jackson out entire rookie season.  Only played one full 16 game season in 4 years.

2015..1st Cedric Ogbuehi out 11 games rookie season.  Never played a full 16 game season.
.........2nd Jake Fisher heart problems in third season end career

2014..1st Darquez Dennard out 8 games over first two seasons and 10 over last two.

2013..1st Tyler Eifert only played 43 games over first 6 seasons (96 games)

2012..1st Dre Kirkpatrick out 11 games rookie season

2010..2nd Carlos Dunlap out 8 games first two seasons

2009..1st Andre Smith out 19 games first two seasons

2008..1st Keith Rivers out 12 games first two seasons

2007..2nd Kenny Irons preseason injury rookie seasons ends career.

2005..1st David Pollack career ending injury in 16th career start.
.........2nd O'Dell Thurman career ended by addiction and/or missing brain after 15 starts

2004..1st Chris Perry plays only 35 games in 4 seasons (64 games)

It does seem rathe uncanny, doesn't it?  And you could go back further to Ki-Jana Carter missing his entire rookie season and never really being the same guy.

If we are to believe in "The Curse of Bo Jackson", Bo was injured in 1991.  If the curse lasts 30 years, then we are good to go next year.  

I, for one, do not believe in that curse at all.  There was nothing dirty about that tackle.  I just believe that sometimes you unlucky and everything seems cyclical.  Sure, the NFL likes their large market (or large fan base) teams for financial reasons and they have been pretty obvious in some of their officiating, but overall I think it is about to be Cincy's turn.  

Baseball is a different animal.  They have had huge payroll differences.  The NFL is designed for parity.  I will always believe that 2015 team was destined to win it all.  I look at the Denver team that won that Super Bowl and how the Bengals, with McCarron at the helm, damn near beat them in Denver.  But, I digress.  The Bengals used to be fun, innovative, and special.  The league caught up and then moved past them.  Some bad drafts (when a bad first rounder KILLED you financially) doomed this team for a decade.  We had some fun with Palmer, and then a nice run with Dalton....only to derail with more poor drafts (Ogbuehi and Fisher were the killers).  

Fast forward to today:  New QB.  Good talent all around.  Suspect line and LB corps have seemingly been addressed, and they have an innovative offensive mind (supposedly).  I think a lot of this team will come down to the coaching and health (duh, right?).  Can they turn the tide that has seemingly always been turned against them since the 90s?  I am more optimistic than ever that they will be contenders.  Maybe not this next year, but very soon.  Burrow is what the Bengals have needed.  Hopefully, he can do some of what he did for LSU for these Bengals.  

[*bengalfan74*]

Sure hope this luck is ending, now.

[jfkbengals]

You should have listed 2003 as well, since Palmer's first two years on the field ended with knee injuries.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2020, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just as often as the Bengals do.

Shocking! you must have looked that up. 

I love how you always tell people that have a different view than you to prove it, and then when they do, you gloss over.it and move the lines. So you prove your point. Your the one defending this viewpoint. Pick a team and go over their draftees and see if they pick injured players as often as we do. 

And good luck with that.

[fredtoast]

(06-07-2020, 02:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So you prove your point. Your the one defending this viewpoint. Pick a team and go over their draftees and see if they pick injured players as often as we do. 

And good luck with that.

I already know the answer.  I am just not going to tell you, and you can't make a valid argument without anything to back it up.  


Giving people knowledge without them ever having to lift a finger just makes everyone weak and stupid.  It is like raising kids.  If you always give your kids all the food they need they will never learn how to skin and cook stray cats.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-05-2020, 06:19 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You are right on that.  

Question though.

How many times do those teams keep drafting (first 3 rounds) players with injuries year after year?

Look.at many profiles from college , many have injuries while in college, I believe only Cedric was drafted knowing he would be pretty much aIR season though.. no doubt we have had some  tough luck with injuries 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I like what we did this year. That is all I will say.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-07-2020, 02:53 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Look.at many profiles from college , many have injuries while in college, I believe only Cedric was drafted knowing he would be pretty much aIR season though.. no doubt we have had some  tough luck with injuries 

No kidding. But we have taken some that had serious injuries prior to the draft. 

Taking those types in the first round is like a person that keeps on betting on the river card.. sure might win a hand here and there, but in the long run you will lose. 
5 from 2010 to 2018
Dennard
Price
ROSS
Oggy
Gresham

All these guys had surgery/surgeries prior to draft. And injury issues carried over to their NFL careers. Only 2 are left on the rooster and highly doubtful they get a second contract worth their draft status.

[fredtoast]

(06-09-2020, 12:02 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No kidding. But we have taken some that had serious injuries prior to the draft. 

Taking those types in the first round is like a person that keeps on betting on the river card.. sure might win a hand here and there, but in the long run you will lose. 
5 from 2010 to 2018
Dennard
Price
ROSS
Oggy
Gresham

All these guys had surgery/surgeries prior to draft. And injury issues carried over to their NFL careers. Only 2 are left on the rooster and highly doubtful they get a second contract worth their draft status.

Every team drafts players that have been injured.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-09-2020, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every team drafts players that have been injured.  

Lolol  when all else fails, dodge the  question with a general statement. 

[fredtoast]

(06-11-2020, 12:45 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Lolol  when all else fails, dodge the  question with a general statement. 

I did not dodge anything.  Apparently the point just went over your head.

Why criticize the bengals for something that every team does?

And WTF does Gresham have to do with injured rookies?  His first three seasons he only missed a total of three games, had 172 receptions and went to two pro bowls.  Over the last decade only 5 TEs had more receptions their first three years in the league.  You really have to go through some serious mental gymnastics to shit on the Bengals for that pick.