Darron Lee interested in coming to the Bengals?

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2020, 01:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cracks me up when you say that other people are saying that Bynes is a top Linebacker in the league.

(06-11-2020, 07:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

[coachmcneil71]

(06-11-2020, 08:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure if it's a case of "he got lost in the pro's", as much as he was only asked to work to the strengths of his skill set one season, 2018.  He was a top rated coverage LB in 2018, those other years, perhaps they were asking him to be a stack LB?  

That's just what sticks out to me, from his stats.  I don't watch the Jets, so I really can't give any "eyeball anecdotal evidence" testimony on his in the box skills.

I think Lee's coming off a SB ring with the Chiefs? Not positive, but fairly certain? Could add some leadership, possibly? No biggie either way to me.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-12-2020, 01:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So what was behind the Cards cutting him Fred? Was he injured? Who were the Linebackers in front of him?

I agree that is a small amount of getting targeted but it still doesn't take away the fact that he did well in that small amount of targets. We will see if he can be a leader for our young guys like Dhani Jones was, if he can it will be a nice pickup.

I'll point it out again. He was cut because Arizona was coming off a 3-13 season and hired a new coaching staff. 

They cut him with hopes to make big splashes in FA by trying to get the money ready for CJ Mosley, and it back fired on them. Their fans didn't even understand the move either because the cut made the team worse cause they didn't manage to sign a LB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-12-2020, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

Nicomo didn't say that, PFF did. Nice try Freddy boy.

(06-13-2020, 09:00 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'll point it out again. He was cut because Arizona was coming off a 3-13 season and hired a new coaching staff. 

They cut him with hopes to make big splashes in FA by trying to get the money ready for CJ Mosley, and it back fired on them. Their fans didn't even understand the move either because the cut made the team worse cause they didn't manage to sign a LB.

Thanks Mike, makes much more sense now, nice to see some logic going on around here.

Bynes I think was a very good pickup and I hope he can be a Dhani Jones type for us to teach up the youthful Linebackers.

[PAjwPhilly]

(06-11-2020, 07:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bynes quietly had one of the strongest seasons among linebackers. His PFF grade of 79.4 ranked sixth among linebackers this season. This is not an isolated occurrence, either; he had a PFF rating of 75.3 with the Cardinals in 2018. That included a run defense grade of 80.2.

While Bynes is a good run defender, he really stood out in pass coverage. Opponets had a passer rating of only 47.4, when targeting him. Let's compare that to his fellow inside linebackers.

Opponent passer rating when targeted

Josh Bynes: 47.4
L.J. Fort: 84.1
Patrick Onwuasor: 118.6
Chris Board: 118.7

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2020/3/7/21168655/the-ravens-should-re-sign-josh-bynes

(06-13-2020, 04:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nicomo didn't say that, PFF did. Nice try Freddy boy.

No PFF did not.

PFF gave statistics, the article cited "said" that.  And reading Baltimore Beat Down (i.e. an unaffiliated Ravens fan site) isn't where I would go for unbiased player analysis. I especially wouldn't use a slant article about re-signing him.

There is a reason that LJ Fort was given a bigger contract and Bynes was not.... Age? Nope they are both the same age. Bynes wanted more money? Nope. LJ Fort still makes more money... Draft status? Nope. Both were UDFA too. I am not saying LJ Fort is better just stating facts and providing some counter facts to that article's "superstar Bynes" reporting.

*not calling you out, but stats are stats and analysis is just that... I wouldn't judge Daniel Jones based a few facts off a Giants fan site.  I think when we use facts to prove our case it is easy to provide 2-3. But that is not a PFF article.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/josh-bynes-9001/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lj-fort-11206/

[kalibengal]

(06-13-2020, 04:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nicomo didn't say that, PFF did. Nice try Freddy boy.



Thanks Mike, makes much more sense now, nice to see some logic going on around here.

Bynes I think was a very good pickup and I hope he can be a Dhani Jones type for us to teach up the youthful Linebackers.

I have never been too impressed with Evans (he doesn't seem to a LB mentality) and if Lee signed for a reasonable cap friendly contract I say why not? Then again, I'm excited to see what the FAs (Spears etc.)look like. 

[impactplaya]

Evans has had 3 years to show what he can do
On the field.he hasn't made alot of plays over
That time. Seems to lack instincts and that "killer
Mentality"to be truly effective
He's not that much better than the other Jordan
Who was a bust from K-State in terms of improving
As a player
Lee would be a upgrade over Evans for sure

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-14-2020, 12:52 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Evans has had 3 years to show what he can do
On the field.he hasn't made alot of plays over
That time. Seems to lack instincts and that "killer
Mentality"to be truly effective
He's not that much better than the other Jordan
Who was a bust from K-State in terms of improving
As a player
Lee would be a upgrade over Evans for sure

I would see them as being more equal with Lee not living up to his draft status. Jordan has flashed, but he's inconsistent so I don't see him being more than what he is now unfortunately. Maybe his inconsistent play was in directly related to the DL play? Who knows, but at this point, we should rotate him in a little and give him a chance to prove it, else bye bye next year.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(06-14-2020, 06:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I would see them as being more equal with Lee not living up to his draft status. Jordan has flashed, but he's inconsistent so I don't see him being more than what he is now unfortunately. Maybe his inconsistent play was in directly related to the DL play? Who knows, but at this point, we should rotate him in a little and give him a chance to prove it, else bye bye next year.

If u already know what u have in Evans which for the record is not good why not go take a chance on a very young former top 20 pick. Who knows he could bang but if he don’t I still think he’s a definitive better option than Evans. Evans is not a good pro football player. He honestly wasn’t a great college player either. He was solid, his specs were off the charts size speed etc but if remember correctly scouts said he played the game soft and someone in here already mentioned he lacks that killer instinct which is consistent with his game in college.
With Lee still young you still hope he can get back to playing top ball like he did in college. He’s a first rounder to Evans I believe 6th round selection. Lee by far a better option and this late in FA I bet we could
Land lee who wants to come Here for a Bargain

[coachmcneil71]

(06-14-2020, 12:52 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Evans has had 3 years to show what he can do
On the field.he hasn't made alot of plays over
That time. Seems to lack instincts and that "killer
Mentality"to be truly effective
He's not that much better than the other Jordan
Who was a bust from K-State in terms of improving
As a player
Lee would be a upgrade over Evans for sure

(06-14-2020, 06:45 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: If u already know what u have in Evans which for the record is not good why not go take a chance on a very young former top 20 pick.  Who knows he could bang but if he don’t I still think he’s a definitive better option than Evans.  Evans is not a good pro football player.  He honestly wasn’t a great college player either.  He was solid, his specs were off the charts size speed etc  but if remember correctly scouts said he played the game soft and someone in here already mentioned he lacks that killer instinct which is consistent with his game in college.  
With Lee still young you still hope he can get back to playing top ball like he did in college.  He’s a first rounder to Evans I believe 6th round selection.  Lee by far a better option and this late in FA I bet we could
Land lee who wants to come Here for a Bargain

 I would definitely take Lee over Evans.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-14-2020, 07:30 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote:  I would definitely take Lee over Evans.

According to Sportrac, he played for $1.8M last year with the Chiefs, and has nothing due this year.  If the team did want to bring him in for some extra veteran competition in camp, he likely would be cost effective.

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2020, 01:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to Sportrac, he played for $1.8M last year with the Chiefs, and has nothing due this year.  If the team did want to bring him in for some extra veteran competition in camp, he likely would be cost effective.

Since he was traded to the Chiefs he was still playing under his rookie contract.

But he should still be pretty damn cheap considering that he barely played last year.

[J24]

(06-12-2020, 01:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cracks me up when you say that other people are saying that Bynes is a top Linebacker in the league.

Most are just saying he is an upgrade over Vigil. That is all, or at least we all hope he is.

Bynes and Vigil are 2 different styles of LB and are asked to do two different things.
Bynes is more of a run Stuffing LB who will play between 30 and 40% of the time.(think Malulaga) While Vigil is a 3 down LB who is best at being a backup.

[Bruce]

No

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-13-2020, 12:32 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I think Lee's coming off a SB ring with the Chiefs? Not positive, but fairly certain? Could add some leadership, possibly? No biggie either way to me.

Yes he is. He played on a LB starved team who traded for him and was marked as a healthy inactive for the SB...

Besides, don't we already have 9 lb's on the rooster right now? 

[*Synric*]

(06-15-2020, 04:22 PM)J24 Wrote: Bynes and Vigil are 2 different styles of LB and are asked to do two different things.
Bynes is more of a run Stuffing LB who will play between 30 and 40% of the time.(think Malulaga) While Vigil is a 3 down LB who is best at being a backup.

Josh Bynes is a linebacker you use against certain personnel groupings like 12 personnel (2WRs, 2TEs, 1 RB) or 21 personnel (2WRs, 2Backs, 1TE). He is good with his run fits and can handle a small zone in the middle of the field. And is very good doing that...

Now if a team is running 11 personnel like they do 60% to 70% of the time in the NFL now you would be asking Bynes to play more man coverage against RBs and TEs which is his weakest area. 

Bynes is a solid veteran you will be able to get 40%ish defensive snaps as J24 mentions above. He will play well while teaching the younger Linebacker core the how to prepare and play as a professional.

It was a very smart signing by the Front Office.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-13-2020, 08:37 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: No PFF did not.

PFF gave statistics, the article cited "said" that.  And reading Baltimore Beat Down (i.e. an unaffiliated Ravens fan site) isn't where I would go for unbiased player analysis. I especially wouldn't use a slant article about re-signing him.

There is a reason that LJ Fort was given a bigger contract and Bynes was not.... Age? Nope they are both the same age. Bynes wanted more money? Nope. LJ Fort still makes more money... Draft status? Nope. Both were UDFA too. I am not saying LJ Fort is better just stating facts and providing some counter facts to that article's "superstar Bynes" reporting.

*not calling you out, but stats are stats and analysis is just that... I wouldn't judge Daniel Jones based a few facts off a Giants fan site.  I think when we use facts to prove our case it is easy to provide 2-3. But that is not a PFF article.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/josh-bynes-9001/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lj-fort-11206/

I stand corrected, good job.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-15-2020, 04:22 PM)J24 Wrote: Bynes and Vigil are 2 different styles of LB and are asked to do two different things.
Bynes is more of a run Stuffing LB who will play between 30 and 40% of the time.(think Malulaga) While Vigil is a 3 down LB who is best at being a backup.

Bynes is actually pretty dang good in coverage too, so I don't understand saying Vigil is a 3 down LB and Bynes isn't.

(06-15-2020, 05:01 PM)Synric Wrote: Josh Bynes is a linebacker you use against certain personnel groupings like 12 personnel (2WRs, 2TEs, 1 RB) or 21 personnel (2WRs, 2Backs, 1TE). He is good with his run fits and can handle a small zone in the middle of the field. And is very good doing that...

Now if a team is running 11 personnel like they do 60% to 70% of the time in the NFL now you would be asking Bynes to play more man coverage against RBs and TEs which is his weakest area. 

Bynes is a solid veteran you will be able to get 40%ish defensive snaps as J24 mentions above. He will play well while teaching the younger Linebacker core the how to prepare and play as a professional.

It was a very smart signing by the Front Office.

This.

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2020, 05:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bynes is actually pretty dang good in coverage too, so I don't understand saying Vigil is a 3 down LB and Bynes isn't.

No.  He is not that good.

That is why he was cut by the Lions.  

That is why he was cut by the Cards (It was not due to a change of coaching because they did not release all 53 players on the roster).

That is why the Ravens did not resign him.

32 different teams had a chance to sign him and we were able to get him for league minimum.

Stop claiming you are smarter than every scout and GM in the entire NFL.  Bynes just is not a very good player.  Good players are not that cheap.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-15-2020, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  He is not that good.

That is why he was cut by the Lions.  

That is why he was cut by the Cards (It was not due to a change of coaching because they did not release all 53 players on the roster).

That is why the Ravens did not resign him.

32 different teams had a chance to sign him and we were able to get him for league minimum.

Stop claiming you are smarter than every scout and GM in the entire NFL.  Bynes just is not a very good player.  Good players are not that cheap.

Better than Vigil in every way pretty much, that is all I care about.

And I never was a Vigil hater.

We needed a vet Linebacker and he is one. Hope you eat major crow this year Fred cause of Bynes.

You are painting with a very broad brush there Fred. Just cause a player is cheap doesn't necessarily mean he sucks.