What Point Should A Team Move On From A Player

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-22-2020, 07:52 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Obviously not the games you are.. sure you are on the right station? Lol

When healthy, John Ross is one of the most dangerous weapons we have. He led the NFL for a couple weeks last season in receiving yards, and has at least been productive with scoring TD’s.

Your boy Billy couldn’t even start on an OL full of scrubs.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-22-2020, 08:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: When healthy, John Ross is one of the most dangerous weapons we have. He led the NFL for a couple weeks last season in receiving yards, and has at least been productive with scoring TD’s.

Your boy Billy couldn’t even start on an OL full of scrubs.

Ok let me try to help you the best I can since you again don;t follow posts well

My comparison to the post was after 2 seasons for each... since Price has only played 2 seasons. 

Season 1 for each:  Can we just say a disaster for Ross.. Price started till he was hurt ( was not horrible as a rookie but not as expected either)

Season 2 for each:  Outside of a 7 tds.. Ross was not very good ( 21 catches playing 60% of the snaps.. that is bad)  .. Price did not recover well from injury lost his starting job at center to Hopson(who played the best on a bad line last year)  and was not able to break lineup at guard so a disaster for Price 

Look both have underperformed but you really do have blinders on or just bias in your love for Ross and potential if you say Ross was so much better than Price in each of their first 2 years...  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-22-2020, 11:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ok let me try to help you the best I can since you again don;t follow posts well

My comparison to the post was after 2 seasons for each... since Price has only played 2 seasons. 

Season 1 for each:  Can we just say a disaster for Ross.. Price started till he was hurt ( was not horrible as a rookie but not as expected either)

Season 2 for each:  Outside of a 7 tds.. Ross was not very good ( 21 catches playing 60% of the snaps.. that is bad)  .. Price did not recover well from injury lost his starting job at center to Hopson(who played the best on a bad line last year)  and was not able to break lineup at guard so a disaster for Price 

Look both have underperformed but you really do have blinders on or just bias in your love for Ross and potential if you say Ross was so much better than Price in each of their first 2 years...  

You’re completely delusional if you think Price was “not horrible as a rookie.” Again, you must be watching different games. Maybe ones where he was in a Buckeyes uniform, which is probably why you’re sticking up so much for the kid. He sure as hell has never been anything but horrible in the NFL.

As for the bold, ofc Ross’ rookie season was a disaster. Our wise and all knowing HC sat him after a fumble, and he never saw the ball again that year. That’s not entirely on him.

But it’s odd to me you make excuses for Price based off injuries, but don’t give Ross the same benefit. One guy clearly has the talent to play in the NFL if he can stay healthy (big if), and the other guy looks like he doesn’t.

And as far as only comparing two years, that’s just stupid. Ross has been around for 3. You have to look at a players entire body of work. Ofc he doesn’t look as good when you take out his best season to date. No player would.

[*Synric*]

(06-22-2020, 11:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ok let me try to help you the best I can since you again don;t follow posts well

My comparison to the post was after 2 seasons for each... since Price has only played 2 seasons. 

Season 1 for each:  Can we just say a disaster for Ross.. Price started till he was hurt ( was not horrible as a rookie but not as expected either)

Season 2 for each:  Outside of a 7 tds.. Ross was not very good ( 21 catches playing 60% of the snaps.. that is bad)  .. Price did not recover well from injury lost his starting job at center to Hopson(who played the best on a bad line last year)  and was not able to break lineup at guard so a disaster for Price 

Look both have underperformed but you really do have blinders on or just bias in your love for Ross and potential if you say Ross was so much better than Price in each of their first 2 years...  

John Ross was the highest scoring Wide Receiver in the first two games in Fantasy Football in 2019.

Billy Price had a couple of "solid" games but no where near a top level player.

Honestly I'm looking forward to Ross as a number 2/3 receiver because I belive while he isn't a high volume guy he is a play maker.

[impactplaya]

Billy Price has had opportunity to lock up the center
Positon and a starting OG spot.
It's not like he's had top shelf talent to beat out
At the OG postion.
John Miller , Alex Redmond...who am I missing
Hopkins is everything Price isn't. He's smart and physical.
Price isn't a,lock to make the roster. Right now he's a huge draft bust

The Bengals offensive minds just need to start
Being more creative with Ross. It's a copycat league
Not hard to figure out. Jet sweeps, jail break screens
Wildcat , rub routes.
How many WRS average a TD on every 4.9 catches ,
Or 18 YPC..not too many

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-22-2020, 01:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You'd be fine with the Bengals taking a $5.5 mill cap hit by cutting Ross? Cuz his contract this year is fully guaranteed whether he's on the team or not. May as well keep him, as he's still gonna be better at WR than someone like Mike Thomas, Stanley Morgan, or Damion Willis.

Also, you are talking about availability is what makes Erickson better than Ross at WR.
Let's look at their actual production over the past 2 years to see whether it matters if Erickson is more available or not...
Ross - 716 yards, 10 TDs
Erickson - 696 yards, 0 TDs

So even though Erickson has been available twice the number of games as Ross, Ross still outproduced him both in yards and TDs because Ross the better guy on offense.

If we're talking depth WRs (which we are), I'd rather keep the guy who can be a 1000+ yard guy if healthy over someone who would only get about half that if fully healthy.

Spot on Ocho.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-23-2020, 01:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re completely delusional if you think Price was “not horrible as a rookie.” Again, you must be watching different games. Maybe ones where he was in a Buckeyes uniform, which is probably why you’re sticking up so much for the kid. He sure as hell has never been anything but horrible in the NFL.

As for the bold, ofc Ross’ rookie season was a disaster. Our wise and all knowing HC sat him after a fumble, and he never saw the ball again that year. That’s not entirely on him.

But it’s odd to me you make excuses for Price based off injuries, but don’t give Ross the same benefit. One guy clearly has the talent to play in the NFL if he can stay healthy (big if), and the other guy looks like he doesn’t.

And as far as only comparing two years, that’s just stupid. Ross has been around for 3. You have to look at a players entire body of work. Ofc he doesn’t look as good when you take out his best season to date. No player would.

I'm a giant Buckeyes homer and I can easily admit Price has been a pretty big disappointment thus far. Will he come out of it ? It's possible I guess ? However as bad as he's been I'm not holding my breath.

 I can't get that play outta my head early last season, forget game. Price was playing LG near goal line and one DL went inside him and other outside and he just stood there arms outstretched and never layed a finger on either one. Dalton was sacked or play got blew up I forget ?

It was like Price had no clue why he was even out there. "Hey guys, guys ! what do I do again ?"

[Essex Johnson]

(06-23-2020, 01:45 AM)Synric Wrote: John Ross was the highest scoring Wide Receiver in the first two games in Fantasy Football in 2019.

Billy Price had a couple of "solid" games but no where near a top level player.

Honestly I'm looking forward to Ross as a number 2/3 receiver because I belive while he isn't a high volume guy he is a play maker.

Both have been major disappointments... and you are adding last season.. compare them their first two seasons and little difference in lack of what they produced... that is my point.. you can;t say Ross is that much better after 2 years than Price.  and Ross lived up to his hurt status again in 3rd season.. 2 games over a 3 year span is not much to bank on.. especially when you miss 40 percent of the other games

[Essex Johnson]

(06-23-2020, 10:34 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Billy Price has had opportunity to lock up the center
Positon and a starting OG spot.
It's not like he's had top shelf talent to beat out
At the OG postion.
John Miller , Alex Redmond...who am I missing
Hopkins is everything Price isn't. He's smart and physical.
Price isn't a,lock to make the roster. Right now he's a huge draft bust

The Bengals offensive minds just need to start
Being more creative with Ross. It's a copycat league
Not hard to figure out. Jet sweeps, jail break screens
Wildcat , rub routes.
How many WRS average a TD on every 4.9 catches ,
Or 18 YPC..not too many

Ross had an opportunity in his 2nd and #rd year to prove he was not fragile.  physically and mentally. did he ??  

[Essex Johnson]

(06-23-2020, 01:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re completely delusional if you think Price was “not horrible as a rookie.” Again, you must be watching different games. Maybe ones where he was in a Buckeyes uniform, which is probably why you’re sticking up so much for the kid. He sure as hell has never been anything but horrible in the NFL.

As for the bold, ofc Ross’ rookie season was a disaster. Our wise and all knowing HC sat him after a fumble, and he never saw the ball again that year. That’s not entirely on him.

But it’s odd to me you make excuses for Price based off injuries, but don’t give Ross the same benefit. One guy clearly has the talent to play in the NFL if he can stay healthy (big if), and the other guy looks like he doesn’t.

And as far as only comparing two years, that’s just stupid. Ross has been around for 3. You have to look at a players entire body of work. Ofc he doesn’t look as good when you take out his best season to date. No player would.

Well at least we know what your bar is for not having a disaster first season as the 9th pick in draft..  let me suit up for 3 games and not have a catch.. no that is not a disaster at all.. man you are really grasping here.. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-23-2020, 09:48 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well at least we know what your bar is for not having a disaster first season as the 9th pick in draft..  let me suit up for 3 games and not have a catch.. no that is not a disaster at all.. man you are really grasping here.. 

Ross has absolutely been a disappointment so far. But Price has been an even bigger one. I still have a glimmer of hope for the former (especially with a new QB that can actually hit him in stride), the latter not so much.

[*jason*]

(06-23-2020, 10:34 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Billy Price has had opportunity to lock up the center
Positon and a starting OG spot.
It's not like he's had top shelf talent to beat out
At the OG postion.
John Miller , Alex Redmond...who am I missing
Hopkins is everything Price isn't. He's smart and physical.
Price isn't a,lock to make the roster. Right now he's a huge draft bust

The Bengals offensive minds just need to start
Being more creative with Ross. It's a copycat league
Not hard to figure out. Jet sweeps, jail break screens
Wildcat , rub routes.
How many WRS average a TD on every 4.9 catches ,
Or 18 YPC..not too many

It may be a copycat league, and it's easy to wonder why they don't use Ross like a Tyreek Hill or something, but don't forget that Ross statistically had the worst hands in the league. There are way more problems with him than his usage, and play calling.

[impactplaya]

(06-23-2020, 09:44 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ross had an opportunity in his 2nd and #rd year to prove he was not fragile.  physically and mentally. did he ??  

Ross caught a 39 yd TD vs the Falcons and pulled up.gimpy 
As he crossed the goal line 
I think it was a groin.
That makes him physically "fragile" 
When they use the term fragile in regards to the state of
A pro football players body, it's more geared toward breaks,
Fractures, spains 
You still forget his averages a TD every 4.9 catches right ?

[impactplaya]

(06-23-2020, 11:17 PM)jason Wrote: It may be a copycat league, and it's easy to wonder why they don't use Ross like a Tyreek Hill or something, but don't forget that Ross statistically had the worst hands in the league. There are way more problems with him than his usage, and play calling.

Did you see John Ross drop a pass in the end zone last year 
Did he drop a pass where he got past the defender ?
Did he drop a pass that cost the Bengals a Game in 2019? 
I got secret for ya....don't tell anybody ....
But Travis Kelce and Keenan Allen dropped passes last year too.

[*jason*]

(06-23-2020, 11:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Did you see John Ross drop a pass in the end zone last year 
Did he drop a pass where he got past the defender ?
Did he drop a pass that cost the Bengals a Game in 2019? 
I got secret for ya....don't tell anybody ....
But Travis Kelce and Keenan Allen dropped passes last year too.

C'mon now... I know they drop passes too. John Ross has a drop rate of 12.5%... Kelce is sitting at 4.4%. Keenan... 4.7. Everybody drops passes... Not as often as John Ross does though.

You said "I got a secret for ya"... Lulz.

[*Synric*]

(06-23-2020, 09:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Both have been major disappointments... and you are adding last season.. compare them their first two seasons and little difference in lack of what they produced... that is my point.. you can;t say Ross is that much better after 2 years than Price.  and Ross lived up to his hurt status again in 3rd season.. 2 games over a 3 year span is not much to bank on.. especially when you miss 40 percent of the other games

Difference is Ross has shown he can be a playmaker but Billy Price has been nothing but a complete disappointment.

Yes Ross needs to stay healthy but that is the biggest thing holding him back at this point because he scores touchdowns when he is on the field.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-24-2020, 12:07 AM)jason Wrote: C'mon now... I know they drop passes too. John Ross has a drop rate of 12.5%... Kelce is sitting at 4.4%. Keenan... 4.7. Everybody drops passes... Not as often as John Ross does though.

You said "I got a secret for ya"... Lulz.

Ross has a higher drop percentage, but let's try to figure out (partially) why:

2019 Average Target Distance:
Ross = 15.6 yards
Kelce = 9.4 yards
Allen = 10.2 yards

So Ross's average length downfield when targeted is ~50% higher than that of guys like Kelce and Allen.

As we know, the deeper downfield the throws, the less accurate and more difficult they can be to catch.

Not saying Ross doesn't have a drop problem, but I think we'd see him catch more balls if he was used much more in the short-to-intermediate routes vs as often downfield.