What Point Should A Team Move On From A Player

[Essex Johnson]

I see various posts from different boards about got to move on from that player. Was wondering based on performance (ie not other issues) when do think a team should move on from a high draft type player (Rounds 1-3) and does the position they play change when to move on.

For myself it is not till at least 4th year for most positions. The exceptions might be QB and WR. Since the QB is the focus point of a team and is involved in pretty much every step and influence roster decisions i could see 3rd year moving on. So if Burrow has a bad 1st year and shows little improvement in year 2, I would consider moving on from a him as our QB.. WR's I feel the same, since they are the least dependent on other players to see how they are doing at their position. Alignment, Coming off the Ball, Routes, Hands are more upon them than other players ie QB...

Both of these cases still would have to be a bit extreme for me to give up on a player developing after 2 years on team. I do think after 3 years ( without injuries that can affect your evaluation) of performance a team can start to make a fair judgement on their investment.

THOUGHTS

[GreenCornBengal]

I believe it’s difficult as us being fans to really know. The teams get to speak to these guys hands on and there are so many different factors that can come into play. We only see the top of the iceberg (Sunday’s performance) when the team gets a full week with their players.

For me, you have to be REALLY bad to be given up on early.

Preston Brown is a good example I think. At face value he was one of the better perhaps the best LB on the team yet the team let him go. There are some factors there we probably don’t know about as fans.

Again, we only see the Sunday product, we don’t see how they get there and that’s important to making those decisions. In my own career someone might perform great at showtime, but is a detriment to the team the rest of the week, or vice versa.

[KillerGoose]

(06-17-2020, 08:48 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I see various posts from different boards about got to move on from that player.  Was wondering based on performance (ie not other issues) when do think a team should move on from a  high draft type player (Rounds 1-3) and does the position they play change when to move on.

For myself it is not till at least 4th year for most positions.  The exceptions might be QB and WR.   Since the QB is the focus point of a team and is involved in pretty much every step and influence roster decisions i could see 3rd year moving on.   So if Burrow has a bad 1st year and shows little improvement in year 2, I would consider moving on from a him as our QB.. WR's I feel the same, since they are the least dependent on other players to see how they are doing at their position.  Alignment, Coming off the Ball, Routes, Hands are more upon them than other players ie QB...

Both of these cases still would have to be a bit extreme for me to give up on a player developing after 2 years on team.  I do think after 3 years ( without injuries that can affect your evaluation) of performance a team can start to make a fair judgement on their investment.

THOUGHTS

I would generally agree. In some extreme cases where the player doesn't show any improvement/promise after two years, then I am okay moving on from them. The only player that fits that definition that is currently on the roster would be Billy Price. He has had off-season injury issues, so that doesn't make it 100% clear but I wouldn't be upset if they moved on from Price. I have yet to see anything that says "this guy will be a good player". 

Ross has showed just enough that I want to see if he can put it together with a new QB. I have mentally moved on from the idea of him being some great receiver so if he doesn't work out, then he doesn't work out but I want to see him have one opportunity with Burrow. In general, three years is what I am willing to wait to move on unless the player just really stinks it up.

[fredtoast]

It is diffucult to come up with one clear answer because every case is different but here are what i would call "general guidelines".

Never judge a player based on his first season.

A player may not be fully developed by his second season either, BUT the player should have shown significant improvement from his first to second season.

By the third season it should be clear what type of player you have. But even if a player has not developed into a starter it may still be a good idea to keep him under contract as a back up.

Injuries can throw a wrench into this, and sometime a decent player can't get a lot of playing time because of talent in front of him. But even if fans don't see a lot of production coaches should know what they have.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Good OP.

Just to add to what others have posted: it depends.

Every situation is different. Injuries, other talent on the team, contract situations, scheme fit, versatility, age, attitude, off the field intangibles, etc.

For example, look at Price. There have been injuries, but he got a chance and did not show well. Played himself out of a starting spot. But, he'd cost us more to cut than keep, and he is the only guy on the roster besides Hopkins with legit experience at center, and can also play guard. He's safe for this year as long as he isn't a disruptive force in the locker room. You hope he is healthy & puts it together this year. Next year we could save money by releasing him, and his price tage ($3.7 mil vs cap) is a touch pricey if he cannot contribute.

Ross has at least shown flashes, and offers something no other WR we have has: burner speed. But not close to justifying another year at $10 million+. We rightly declined his option. If he plays well I bet we try to re-sign him. If he lights it up, a tag could happen. If not, we look for another burner.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 01:07 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good OP.

Just to add to what others have posted: it depends.

Every situation is different. Injuries, other talent on the team, contract situations, scheme fit, versatility, age, attitude, off the field intangibles, etc.

For example, look at Price. There have been injuries, but he got a chance and did not show well. Played himself out of a starting spot. But, he'd cost us more to cut than keep, and he is the only guy on the roster besides Hopkins with legit experience at center, and can also play guard. He's safe for this year as long as he isn't a disruptive force in the locker room. You hope he is healthy & puts it together this year. Next year we could save money by releasing him, and his price tage ($3.7 mil vs cap) is a touch pricey if he cannot contribute.

Ross has at least shown flashes, and offers something no other WR we have has: burner speed. But not close to justifying another year at $10 million+. We rightly declined his option. If he plays well I bet we try to re-sign him. If he lights it up, a tag could happen. If not, we look for another burner.

This, if Price shows nothing good this year, we should move on. Ross the same but like you said he has at least shown flashes.

These are about the only players right now that I see on the team as these types.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-17-2020, 10:57 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I believe it’s difficult as us being fans to really know. The teams get to speak to these guys hands on and there are so many different factors that can come into play. We only see the top of the iceberg (Sunday’s performance) when the team gets a full week with their players.

For me, you have to be REALLY bad to be given up on early.

Preston Brown is a good example I think. At face value he was one of the better perhaps the best LB on the team yet the team let him go. There are some factors there we probably don’t know about as fans.

Again, we only see the Sunday product, we don’t see how they get there and that’s important to making those decisions. In my own career someone might perform great at showtime, but is a detriment to the team the rest of the week, or vice versa.

Preston Brown does not fit into my thread though.. he was a veteran from another team.. i trying to focus on high draft picks

[Bruce]

wish they would get red of Ross already. bout time to send jackson packing to cause the money hes gonna want is way more than what he's earned so far. i would hang onto price a little longer. He's a good kid and has had some problems but i say he still has a chance to turn into a good player for us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 08:47 PM)Bruce Wrote: wish they would get red of Ross already. bout time to send jackson packing to cause the money hes gonna want is way more than what he's earned so far. i would hang onto price a little longer. He's a good kid and has had some problems but i say he still has a chance to turn into a good player for us.

Well with all those guys I think they have very high upside but Price has been the most disappointing to me as I thought he would 
turn out to be a great interior OL down the road. He has been banged up a lot and I hope that is what has held him back. Ross has 
problems staying healthy and hasn't gotten the mental aspect down yet. We didn't pick up his 5th year option so if he has a dud 
season this year we can just let him go.

WJ3 I think just needs to play Man coverage, when they put him in a Soft Zone it just doesn't work to his strengths. As with most 
of our Corners and overall Secondary.

Bottom line, make or break year for all 3, at least with us if they want a paycheck to stay here.

[JSR18]

(06-17-2020, 07:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This, if Price shows nothing good this year, we should move on. Ross the same but like you said he has at least shown flashes.

These are about the only players right now that I see on the team as these types.

I've held my thoughts about Ross so far.

This is what I see. I see an offensive minded coach (and play caller) making a specific role for John Ross. Think Brandin Cooks for the Rams. Think a better QB than Goff throwing open Ross on screens, slants and crossing patterns.

I'm thinking the announcers may get tired of yelling "...and there goes Ross"...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-17-2020, 08:47 PM)Bruce Wrote: wish they would get red of Ross already. bout time to send jackson packing to cause the money hes gonna want is way more than what he's earned so far. i would hang onto price a little longer. He's a good kid and has had some problems but i say he still has a chance to turn into a good player for us.

There is 0 benefit to cutting Ross this season. He’d be owed too much money being a 1st round pick. Might as well see if we can get some production out of him for a year, and then let him walk.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 09:22 PM)JSR18 Wrote: I've held my thoughts about Ross so far.

This is what I see. I see an offensive minded coach (and play caller) making a specific role for John Ross. Think Brandin Cooks for the Rams. Think a better QB than Goff throwing open Ross on screens, slants and crossing patterns.

I'm thinking the announcers may get tired of yelling "...and there goes Ross"...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Ross has already worked with Burrow, who knows? Might blow up the league, I know that if he screws up Burrow will get on him
and make sure he is running the right routes and catching the damn ball. If Ross can get on the same page with Burrow, look out.

And if he does blow up the league I am for bringing him back. It was smart not to pick up his option though. 

Has to show somethin' before paying him. Needs to be consistent, have better hands and show he can stay healthy.

(06-17-2020, 09:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There is 0 benefit to cutting Ross this season. He’d be owed too much money being a 1st round pick. Might as well see if we can get some production out of him for a year, and then let him walk.

True.

[*jason*]

(06-17-2020, 09:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ross has already worked with Burrow, who knows? Might blow up the league, I know that if he screws up Burrow will get on him
and make sure he is running the right routes and catching the damn ball. If Ross can get on the same page with Burrow, look out.

And if he does blow up the league I am for bringing him back. It was smart not to pick up his option though. 

Has to show somethin' before paying him. Needs to be consistent, have better hands and show he can stay healthy.


True.

If they have a season this year, I wouldn't be shocked if they extended Ross for 2 seasons. Gives them a chance to hedge their bets with him. If he were to blow up this year, he's locked in for another prove it year for less money.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 10:09 PM)jason Wrote: If they have a season this year, I wouldn't be shocked if they extended Ross for 2 seasons. Gives them a chance to hedge their bets with him. If he were to blow up this year, he's locked in for another prove it year for less money.

Anything could happen. This is a heck of a lot better than picking up his option and he should be cheap with his lack of production.

[*jason*]

(06-17-2020, 10:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Anything could happen. This is a heck of a lot better than picking up his option and he should be cheap with his lack of production.

Yeah... I can't take credit for the idea. I read somewhere that they should do that with him, and this was before they declined his 5th year option. If they don't do that, and he somehow goes off during his contract year, I still wouldn't feel good about locking him up long term. I wanna see him do it more than once. I bet dolphins fans are sorta leery of the money they gave Devante Parker.

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-17-2020, 08:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Preston Brown does not fit into my thread though.. he was a veteran from another team.. i trying to focus on high draft picks

He may not fit your original thread I ntent, but it goes to show that anything can change and that we as fans don’t have the greatest perspective on what’s actually happening at the facility during the week.

As for draftees, I personally feel like you always stick with their contract unless you can trade em early to a team that still thinks they have potential. Still, we as fans know little.

The team made a good decision not picking up Ross’s extended option, which IMO is all you can do other than trade them away. Again, player has to be really bad to drop before the contract is up. That’s just my opinion though and I am by no means an expert or even competent on the subject matter.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 10:22 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... I can't take credit for the idea. I read somewhere that they should do that with him, and this was before they declined his 5th year option. If they don't do that, and he somehow goes off during his contract year, I still wouldn't feel good about locking him up long term. I wanna see him do it more than once. I bet dolphins fans are sorta leery of the money they gave Devante Parker.

Well I agree, Ross hasn't shown enough to be extended long term by no means.

Was high on Devante Parker after I saw him at Louisville in college but he is another one that sure hasn't lived up to his status.

(06-17-2020, 10:22 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: He may not fit your original thread I ntent, but it goes to show that anything can change and that we as fans don’t have the greatest perspective on what’s actually happening at the facility during the week.

As for draftees, I personally feel like you always stick with their contract unless you can trade em early to a team that still thinks they have potential. Still, we as fans know little.

The team made a good decision not picking up Ross’s extended option, which IMO is all you can do other than trade them away. Again, player has to be really bad to drop before the contract is up. That’s just my opinion though and I am by no means an expert or even competent on the subject matter.

I feel the same, we don't know what goes on at practices and in private meetings and such during the week.

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-17-2020, 10:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I feel the same, we don't know what goes on at practices and in private meetings and such during the week.

It’s even difficult to judge gameday performance. Sometimes a guy is out of position but maybe he is doing exactly what the coaches tell him and it’s bad scheme/playcalling.

As a fan, mich easier to tell who is good than it is to tell who is bad I think

[*jason*]

(06-17-2020, 10:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well I agree, Ross hasn't shown enough to be extended long term by no means.

Was high on Devante Parker after I saw him at Louisville in college but he is another one that sure hasn't lived up to his status.


I feel the same, we don't know what goes on at practices and in private meetings and such during the week.

Parker finally showed out last year... Pretty much made my fantasy team unbeatable too... Hahaha.

But now they've committed to him, and he's had one good season outta 5.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2020, 10:45 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It’s even difficult to judge gameday performance. Sometimes a guy is out of position but maybe he is doing exactly what the coaches tell him and it’s bad scheme/playcalling.

As a fan, mich easier to tell who is good than it is to tell who is bad I think

So much goes into the game, it is hard to tell.

Just happy we got Joe Burrow who I think can make the entire team better and Taylor's job easier.

(06-17-2020, 10:52 PM)jason Wrote: Parker finally showed out last year... Pretty much made my fantasy team unbeatable too... Hahaha.

But now they've committed to him, and he's had one good season outta 5.

Parker was one of the WR's I thought could be like AJ, he has the size and athleticism to be a good one.

Still, like you said he sure hasn't lived up to it whether that has to do with poor QB play or not.

Maybe with Tua he could shine.