A step up and a step back

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-28-2020, 11:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Does Jonah Williams really count as a "step up" player since he did not play at alllast year?  If so then there is no contest in that catagory.

If Jonal does not count then I would pick Lawson, BUT I have serious doubts about his durability.

So my choice is Germain Pratt. What jumped out to me from last year was his consistent development over the season.  He barely played the first half of the year with only 101 snaps on defense (app 20%) and never more than 38% of the defensive snaps in any game.  Then in game #9 against Baltimore he played 50% of the defensive snaps, and Preston Brown was immediately released.  Pratt still did not play more than 68% of the snaps until the final 4 games.  Then he played over 70% in 3 of them.  Here is how his season broke down


Game..snaps...tkl...solo..asst..blitz..TFL
1-4 ........ 25... 4..... 1..... 3..... 1..... 0
5-8 ........ 76...12.... 9..... 3..... 6..... 0
9-12.......148...22...14..... 8..... 7..... 0
13-16.....187...34...23.....11....14..... 4

Project that last quarter of the season over a full 16 games and you get 136 tackles and 16 tackle for loss.  That would be an awesome year from any of our LBs.

I know 4 games is a very small sample size, but those numbers were not just a fluke spike in production.  Instead you can track consistent improvement throughout the entire season.

Love it.  Wanted to see everyone's choices and was going to try and go with something unique, but he would be my bet as well.  I could see him and Wilson being the early nickel package.  

[*SHRacerX*]

Step Up: Billy Price.

I feel like Price will be healthy for the first time in his career at the start of camp and will wrestle away the starting RG position from the projected starter, XSF. Maybe this is an emotional pick because I want the guy to pan out, but I hope he shows why he was taken in the first round.

Step Back: Auden Tate.

I love the guy, but I don't know how much action he will see with Ross, Green, Boyd, and Higgins likely on the field before him. I sure like the guy as our 4th or 5th best receiver, but wonder how many opportunities he will have.

[SunsetBengal]

Step up, Mike Jordan. I feel like he could have a comparative boost in development from rookie to 2nd year as he did going from starting as a true freshman to making 1st team All-Big10 as a Sophomore.

Step back, Shawn Williams. I believe that Von Bell's presence will push Williams to the 3rd Safety role, as Jesse Bates will emerge as a talented "over the top" coverage Safety. I could envision Shawn Williams becoming a trade candidate.

[impactplaya]

(06-28-2020, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Step Up:  Billy Price.  

I feel like Price will be healthy for the first time in his career at the start of camp and will wrestle away the starting RG position from the projected starter, XSF.  Maybe this is an emotional pick because I want the guy to pan out, but I hope he shows why he was taken in the first round.

Step Back:  Auden Tate.  

I love the guy, but I don't know how much action he will see with Ross, Green, Boyd, and Higgins likely on the field before him.  I sure like the guy as our 4th or 5th best receiver, but wonder how many opportunities he will have.

I think Price needs to really get stronger on all levels.
He looked over matched even when he was healthy.
If he can play at a high level then that  only benefits the offense in general.  You cant have too many good olinemen

I think Tate's catches will drop. But I think his TDS will go up. 
I project him to be a end zone threat 

[SunsetBengal]

(06-28-2020, 12:37 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Price needs to really get stronger on all levels.
He looked over matched even when he was healthy.
If he can play at a high level then that  only benefits the offense in general.  You cant have too many good olinemen

I think Tate's catches will drop. But I think his TDS will go up. 
I project him to be a end zone threat 

Unfortunately, I think that Billy Price will have to become a master technician in order to have any success at the NFL level.  In college, he overcame his short arms with hustle, aggression, and being a part of a dominate, well orchestrated OL.  NFL defenders are just plain too good to be beaten simply with hustle and aggression.  I feel like it'll take a minor miracle, in order for him to achieve and consistent success in the NFL.

[JSR18]

(06-28-2020, 12:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow.  If this happens, let's hope Darius Phillips also steps up.  

 I'm going out on a limb here: I think Darius Phillips gets a lot more DEFENSIVE playing time this year...

[fredtoast]

(06-28-2020, 01:44 PM)JSR18 Wrote:  I'm going out on a limb here: I think Darius Phillips gets a lot more DEFENSIVE playing time this year...

I am not as impressed with Waynes and Alexander as a lot of people here.  I would not be surprised at all to see Phillips pass one of them to get that #3 CB position.

I am not rooting against Waynes or Alexander.  I don't care which players step up and produce.  I just think Phillips has a better shot than a lot of people are giving him.

[*bfine32*]

(06-28-2020, 11:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think lack of help was his big problem last year.

But we have already seen that he can be a very good player.  One of the best on the defense if he plays at his best.

So I don't know if I should call it a "step up" or a "comeback" but Jackson returning would be a huge help to this defense.

Jax started 5 games and got a little love from PFF in '17, but he's a long way from an established star. I hope he does more than "comeback" from the '17 season where he had 1 INT 14 PDs and 25 tackles. I'm talking one of the league's best step up. This is his contract year and he needs to step up.  

[impactplaya]

(06-28-2020, 03:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jax started 5 games and got a little love from PFF in '17, but he's a long way from an established star. I hope he does more than "comeback" from the '17 season where he had 1 INT 14 PDs and 25 tackles. I'm talking one of the league's best step up. This is his contract year and he needs to step up.  

WJ3  Needs to start coming. Up with more. INTs.
Teans are throwing the ball at a record rate and yet he still 
Can't produce more than 2 INTs at best in a season 
He wasn't drafted cause he was the NCAA best run stopper 
At CB.
Darius Phillips had more INTs than WJ3 in 2019 in less games 

[Essex Johnson]

Step Up: Hart

Step Back: Dunlap

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

I'm not sure Billy Price will ever live up to his draft status, but I do think there's potential for him to be a 'step up' player and maybe even win a starting job. His arms measured 32" at the combine, which is pretty average for his height (maybe a tick below), so I don't know that that's his problem. I think his problems were always a) lack of balance, b) injuries and c) maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed. But balance is something that can be worked on and learned, and in fact in his interview with those two puppet characters I think he even hinted that he was learning it. He wasn't always injured during the year, but he was during the offseason. Think about it, most players who are virtually robbed of their first two NFL offseasons are going to struggle. We've had lots of guys who weren't great right away, but when they got over early career injuries went on to vastly improve - Houshmandzadeh and Trey Hopkins come to mind. And I'm not really sure about his brains, but at any rate that should matter less at guard than center.

Again, I doubt he'll ever be great or has a long term future here, but I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-28-2020, 12:37 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Price needs to really get stronger on all levels.
He looked over matched even when he was healthy.
If he can play at a high level then that  only benefits the offense in general.  You cant have too many good olinemen

I think Tate's catches will drop. But I think his TDS will go up. 
I project him to be a end zone threat 

Price was one of the strongest linemen to come out of the draft.  I think his technique was sloppy and he relied too much on his strength.  As a former first rounder, however, much like what happened to Ross after last year, I can't see Price having his 5th year option picked up unless his health shows a massive turnaround in his play. 

The red zone will get crowded as well, between Sample/Uzo, Green, Ross, Higgins, and Boyd.  I hope Tate still gets his chances, though.  They keep talking about a rotation to keep guys fresh and full speed throughout the game.  I hope they back that up.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-28-2020, 01:44 PM)JSR18 Wrote:  I'm going out on a limb here: I think Darius Phillips gets a lot more DEFENSIVE playing time this year...

He sure looked like he belonged last year, but who do you sit to give him snaps?  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-27-2020, 01:10 PM)impactplaya Wrote: A intresting season awaits us after a exciting FA period
With dollar amounts we have seen in ages here.
Then you add a draft that hopefully has future cornerstones.

As in any football season there are players that
Rise and fall.

Name 1 player that you believe will make
The biggest improvement on the team and then
Name one that will take largest step back

Have it Bengals fans .

Biggest step up - Germaine Pratt, this guy played well as a rookie and think he will be the break out player on Defense.

Biggest step back - Shawn Williams, think Vonn Bell will take a lot of Shawn's snaps.

[JSR18]

(06-29-2020, 08:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He sure looked like he belonged last year, but who do you sit to give him snaps?  

Yes, he did. I think he either becomes the slot corner or (and I'll get flamed for this) he overtakes WJIII....

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[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-29-2020, 10:04 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Yes, he did. I think he either becomes the slot corner or (and I'll get flamed for this) he overtakes WJIII....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Not going to flame you JSR, but Mackenzie Alexander is one of the best Slot Corners in the league and Darius Phillips is more of a
boundary Corner. So I do agree it is more likely Phillips takes WJ3 or Waynes spot if one of them is not up to par or one gets hurt.

Phillips is a ballhawk man, WJ3 is not so far and has not lived up to his first season or his draft spot so far and Waynes is not a 
great cover guy. It is not that far fetched that Phillips could take one of their spots if they don't play up to their first round status.

Just think Alexander is safe and we need to extend him longer than just one year.

[BengalChris]

Biggest improvement has to go to AJ Green. Going from zero back to his usual highly productive self would be a gigantic improvement. I also considered Joe Mixon who was stymied last year behind terrible OL play.

For a step back I can't really pick a single good candidate. My first thought was Bobby Hart who improved last season but he could just as easily return to being one of the worst in the league. Then there's John Ross who improved some last year who could have trouble seeing meaningful playing time with AJ Green back and the drafting of sure handed Tee Higgins.

[JSR18]

(06-29-2020, 11:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not going to flame you JSR, but Mackenzie Alexander is one of the best Slot Corners in the league and Darius Phillips is more of a
boundary Corner. So I do agree it is more likely Phillips takes WJ3 or Waynes spot if one of them is not up to par or one gets hurt.

Phillips is a ballhawk man, WJ3 is not so far and has not lived up to his first season or his draft spot so far and Waynes is not a 
great cover guy. It is not that far fetched that Phillips could take one of their spots if they don't play up to their first round status.

Just think Alexander is safe and we need to extend him longer than just one year.

Yeah, I can't see spending money on FAs and then benching them. If I'm WJIII, I'm looking over my shoulder every play...

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[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-01-2020, 04:32 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Biggest improvement has to go to AJ Green. Going from zero back to his usual highly productive self would be a gigantic improvement. I also considered Joe Mixon who was stymied last year behind terrible OL play.

For a step back I can't really pick a single good candidate. My first thought was Bobby Hart who improved last season but he could just as easily return to being one of the worst in the league. Then there's John Ross who improved some last year who could have trouble seeing meaningful playing time with AJ Green back and the drafting of sure handed Tee Higgins.

If AJ plays well that’s more of a comeback player. Lack of production on the field has never been his problem.

And plenty of RB’s would love to be “stymied” for 1100 yds like Mixon had...

[fredtoast]

(07-01-2020, 09:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And plenty of RB’s would love to be “stymied” for 1100 yds like Mixon had...

Let these numbers sink in for a moment

Joe Mixon rushing through first 7 fames last year (almost half of season)... 36.3 yards per game, 3.0 yards per carry, zero tds.