"Why Isn't One of the NFL's Best Pass Defenders, not in the HoF?"

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Article written by the Score, here in Canada (today is Canada Day! )

Quote:
Hall of Fame debates are a staple of sports arguments - whether a player's amassed the credentials to be honored among the best in their sport is prime fodder for discussion over a beer. We're spotlighting a collection of players who we believe either deserve the distinction but haven't yet been inducted, or don't quite measure up but had a great impact on their franchise or sport.

If ever there was a player whose career achievements prove that Hall of Fame selections are often nothing more than silly popularity contests, it's Ken Riley.

Riley spent 15 seasons in the NFL, all as a defensive back, all with the Cincinnati Bengals. This wasn't the era of the Bungles, either: Riley's tenure included five playoff appearances and a trip to Super Bowl XVI. He retired in 1983 with 65 career interceptions - fourth-most in league history at the time. Thirty-seven years have since passed, and Riley's now tied for fifth all time in picks. Yet he's never been so much as a finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, let alone an inductee. All for unspoken reasons that are baked into the selection process, which has far less to do with merit than one might think.

"I think that the reason why he did not get more consideration for the PFHOF is that he was not a self-promoter," pro football historian Ken Crippen told me via email. "You need to have your name in front of the voters constantly if you want consideration."

Visibility and lobbying are a bigger part of the Pro Football Hall's procedures than one might think. Modern-era candidates are eligible for up to 25 years after their retirements, and beyond that there's a backlog of senior candidates, of which only one or two can be considered finalists in a given year. This can make it difficult for a player like Riley to get recognized, despite his obvious credentials.

"He was really smart, and had great quickness," Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Fouts told me. "Any ball that wasn't obviously on target, or was a little bit late, his quickness would always show up at that point. I think a lot of Ken Riley."

Hall of Fame wideout Charlie Joiner, who teamed with Riley on the Bengals and later played against him as a member of the San Diego Chargers, said Riley rarely dropped passes he was able to get his hands on. He also said Riley especially excelled at redirecting out of his backpedal to break on the ball.

"That's why he had so many interceptions," Joiner told me.


Football's only recently entered a quantitative era in which individual performances can be more closely scrutinized at every position. During Riley's time, it wasn't possible to gauge how he played against a particular pass-catcher or quarterback, or to determine how frequently quarterbacks threw in his direction (or away from him), or how well he played in man versus zone coverages, or how often he lined up in the slot or outside. Interceptions, however, are a traditional stat, and the Hall has long prized them as barometers for induction - but only to a point.

Riley's 65 picks rank second all time among cornerbacks, trailing only Dick "Night Train" Lane's 68. And of those in the top 10 all time at any position with 62 or more interceptions, only Riley, Charles Woodson, Darren Sharper, and Dave Brown are not in the Hall. Woodson won't be eligible until next year, and Sharper's name will likely never be called because he's currently in prison after pleading guilty four years ago to multiple rape charges. That leaves Riley and Brown, and Riley finished his career with three more interceptions than Brown.

"He compares favorably with anyone that I've coached," former longtime NFL defensive coach Dick LeBeau told me. "The statistics don't lie, and his are all on the table."

LeBeau can relate to Riley's struggle to get his due. He coached the Bengals' defensive backs from 1980-83, during Riley's final four seasons. But he's best known for having been the Pittsburgh Steelers' defensive coordinator from 1995-96 and again from 2004-14. During those two stints, Pittsburgh made four Super Bowls and won two titles. That's relevant because LeBeau was also a cornerback for the Detroit Lions who finally went into the Hall as a player in 2010 - nearly 40 years after he retired with 62 career picks, which is tied for third among corners, and 10th among all defensive backs.

"I think the fact that the Steeler defense was so good kept my name current, no doubt," LeBeau said.


Bruce Bennett / Getty Images
Riley had no such direct avenue to recognition. After his retirement, he spent two years as an assistant coach with the Green Bay Packers before taking over as head coach at Florida A&M, his alma mater. He later served as FAMU's athletic director before finishing his professional career as the dean of students at a Florida high school. He remained out of the limelight, and he liked it that way.

"This is my personality," Riley told The New York Times' Samuel G. Freedman back in 2013. "It’s the way I was brought up - parents, grandparents, everybody. Let your work speak for itself and be humble."

Riley grew up in Bartow, Florida, where he attended a segregated high school. He was a quarterback and a Rhodes Scholar candidate at Florida A&M. He never played defense until he reached the NFL, until after the Bengals picked him in the sixth round of the 1969 draft. Cincinnati selected quarterback Greg Cook fifth overall that year, and head coach and team founder Paul Brown had no intention of allowing Riley to compete with Cook.

At the time, and for years afterward, it was common for NFL teams to insist that Black quarterbacks switch positions, owing to a longstanding prejudice that they were not capable of playing the position. Years later, Brown's son, Mike, who remains the Bengals' owner and team president, told the Cincinnati Enquirer that Riley "couldn't play quarterback in the NFL. He probably thinks today he could, but he really had no chance there and my dad immediately moved him over to cornerback."

The Enquirer reported that Riley laughed when he was told what Mike Brown said. "I think I could have played if given an opportunity, but the guy that we drafted that year was great - and that was Greg Cook," Riley told the paper. "He was just super." Cook was indeed a hotshot prospect, but his career was ultimately short-circuited by injuries.

Despite his production, Riley had a difficult time getting recognition even during his playing days. He led the league in interceptions three times, but he never made the Pro Bowl and only once was chosen as an All-Pro - in 1983, his final season, when he intercepted eight passes at the age of 36. Meanwhile, another Bengals cornerback, Lemar Parrish, who was taken in the seventh round in 1970 and finished his career with 47 picks, went to eight Pro Bowls. LeBeau chalked this up to Parrish having been one of the league's most prominent punt returners.

"The punt returners, they're splash playmakers, and maybe Kenny overall suffers a little bit because of that," LeBeau said.


Bruce Bennett / Getty Images
Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections do help bolster a player's Hall credentials, even though they're highly subjective honors that also frequently don't go to deserving candidates. As a result, Pro Football Reference's Hall of Fame monitor tool doesn't think highly of Riley's Hall qualifications. Yet for all his humility, Riley recognized this incongruity, as he once explained to Crippen for a story in the National Football Post:

The system is all screwed up. A lot of times, there were guys who made the Pro Bowl based on what they did the previous year. Lemar Parrish and I are good friends. In 1976, I had nine interceptions and led the conference. I had three in the last game against the Jets. I will never forget it. Charlie Winters was my secondary coach. They took me out in the third quarter. He said that he didn’t want me to get hurt because, "There is no way that this time they would pass you up." Lemar (Parrish) was hurt half of the season that year. When they picked the Pro Bowl, they selected him, which I never understood and neither did he. I can't fault him, but the system is all screwed up.

Freedman's written that Hall voters have told him off the record that playing in Cincinnati hurt Riley since it's a small media market. A Hall voter confirmed this to me, on condition of anonymity. Not even the advocacy of former teammates like Sunday Night Football analyst Cris Collinsworth, or opponents like Steelers wideout John Stallworth - a Hall member himself - has worked to bolster Riley's case. Offensive tackle Anthony Munoz remains the only player in the Hall who played the bulk of his career in Cincinnati.

Riley's day may come someday, but he won't live to see it. He died June 7, at 72.


Dom Cosentino is a senior features writer at theScore.

Most of which we all know, but good to see him get some love up here.

Comments too, are all from non-Bengal fans, saying it's f'd up and a joke that he's not in.

[Wes Mantooth]

The real answer?

It's because he played in a small market, and he never won a ring. Had he played in NY, or had won a couple rings, even with the same exact stats, skill level, and play then he'd be a shoe-in.

Being in small market was definitely a much bigger issue back in the day. Unless he was playing on Monday Night no one got to see him play. And how often were they putting small market teams on National TV back in the day? A.) Not as often as bigger markets.

There was no watching a game at 1, watching and an out-of-market game at 4 and then tuning into Sunday night football. There was no Thursday night football. There was no ESPN or highlight clips and talking heads dominating the airwaves. There was no internet. You had 3(?) channels, radio and the newspaper.

Had he played a more stat driven position (QB, RB, WR) then maybe he could've overcomed this. But as a DB he's getting shafted. Not enough people saw him, and there aren't clear benchmarks to say, yeah this guy has HOF numbers.

It's a shame, because he clearly deserves being in.

[Jason_NC]

Actually I'd say the real reason for both Kens is they played at the same time and in the same division as one of the best teams in NFL history. I'd be interested in how many guys from Oilers and Browns who had their prime years the 70s are in.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-01-2020, 06:59 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The real answer?

It's because he played in a small market, and he never won a ring.  Had he played in NY, or had won a couple rings, even with the same exact stats, skill level, and play then he'd be a shoe-in.

Being in small market was definitely a much bigger issue back in the day.  Unless he was playing on Monday Night no one got to see him play. And how often were they putting small market teams on National TV back in the day? A.) Not as often as bigger markets.

There was no watching a game at 1, watching and an out-of-market game at 4 and then tuning into Sunday night football.  There was no Thursday night football.  There was no ESPN or highlight clips and talking heads dominating the airwaves. There was no internet.  You had 3(?) channels, radio and the newspaper.

Had he played a more stat driven position (QB, RB, WR) then maybe he could've overcomed this. But as a DB he's getting shafted.  Not enough people saw him, and there aren't clear benchmarks to say, yeah this guy has HOF numbers.

It's a shame, because he clearly deserves being in.

Averaging 4+ INTs over a 15 year career is pretty damn benchmark and impressive, no matter what era or market he played in.  Dude's been getting hosed, as far as my opinion goes..

[jfkbengals]

Within days of his passing, I heard one of the guys who votes in the room state that far too many times people said his accomplishments were due to Parrish being on the other side of the field.

I call BS on that, and so did the Hall voter who,for the record, stated he had always been in favor of Riley being in.

[EatonFan]

The Bengals are the only team to have only one HOF player. I think the next lowest is four.

(Excludes the expansion teams)

[fredtoast]

Thread title contains a double negative.

But I don't really care.

It would be silly to let some minor little detail like that bother me.

So it really doesn't matter to me.

At all.

Not even a little bit.

[fredtoast]

Lot's of good reasons already mentioned.

Small market.

Bengals overshadowed by Steelers dynasty.

Never won a ring.

But one that has not been mentioned is that he played 8 seasons with another CB on his own team who was more flashy. Not saying Lemar Parrish was a better cover corner than Riley, but he was a big play machine. Parrish held the NFL career return touchdown record for almost 20 years until Deion Sanders passed him in the 90's.

Over the 8 years they played together ('70-'77) Ken Riley was 4th in the league in interceptions (36). Parrish was 18th with 25 picks, but no one had more than his 4 interceptions returned for tds.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(07-01-2020, 09:54 PM)EatonFan Wrote: The Bengals are the only team to have only one HOF player. I think the next lowest is four.

(Excludes the expansion teams)

We have 3 players in the HoF: Munoz, Joiner and Owens.

I know the latter two only played part of their careers here, but we still have 3.

[*jason*]

(07-02-2020, 11:46 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: We have 3 players in the HoF: Munoz, Joiner and Owens.

I know the latter two only played part of their careers here, but we still have 3.

I only remember Joiner from SD, and though TO was more effective than James Harrison here, I don't think anyone thinks of him or Harrison as Bengals.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-02-2020, 07:41 PM)jason Wrote: I only remember Joiner from SD, and though TO was more effective than James Harrison here, I don't think anyone thinks of him or Harrison as Bengals.

Yeah, players having a cup of coffee here doesn’t really count. Munoz is the only Bengal in the HOF. Hopefully Geno will join him.

[jfkbengals]

(07-02-2020, 01:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lot's of good reasons already mentioned.

Small market.

Bengals overshadowed by Steelers dynasty.

Never won a ring.

But one that has not been mentioned is that he played 8 seasons with another CB on his own team who was more flashy.  Not saying Lemar Parrish was a better cover corner than Riley, but he was a big play machine.  Parrish held the NFL career return touchdown record for almost 20 years until Deion Sanders passed him in the 90's.

Over the 8 years they played together ('70-'77) Ken Riley was 4th in the league in interceptions (36).  Parrish was 18th with 25 picks, but no one had more than his 4 interceptions returned for tds.

That was the point of the voter I was discussing in post #5, "Don't throw at Parrish, throw at Riley!"

[*bengalfan74*]

Ken Riley, much like Geno, was a silent assassin. That lack of self promotion hurt him a good bit.

In a 3 year period 74-76 Ken had 20 int's ! In 9 of Ken's 15 seasons in had 4+ int's. Did they track passes defended back then ? If they did I'm sure he'd be near the top.

It's just total BS he's not in.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(07-02-2020, 07:41 PM)jason Wrote: I only remember Joiner from SD, and though TO was more effective than James Harrison here, I don't think anyone thinks of him or Harrison as Bengals.

(07-02-2020, 10:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, players having a cup of coffee here doesn’t really count. Munoz is the only Bengal in the HOF. Hopefully Geno will join him.

I agree.

But they were still on the team, thus, they were still Bengal players.

It just wasn't their predominant team.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Funny, one of the knocks on Riley during his playing days, and why he supposedly didn't make many/any all-pro/pro bowls teams, was that the reason he got so many picks was because QBs threw at him all the time because the opposite corner, 8 time pro bowl, 5 time all-pro Lemar Parrish (who held the pick 6 record for a while, 47 picks, 13 TDs), was even better.

Parrish had off the field drug issues post retirement, and so likely never makes the Hall. Based on his playing days, he should be in as well.

[SladeX]

In this and others areas, I can't help but wonder if politics related to Paul Brown's alleged blackballing tactics play a role. I'm not saying he did any of it, but character assassination can be very powerful. Does all that color the NFL's view of our team.

[kevin]

Ken Riley was never in the Pro Bowl. So he probably won't ever be in HOF. Blame the Sports Writers who vote on these things. Riley should have been in many Pro Bowls. For no Pro Bowls, Riley is most Under Rated Bengal Player Ever by National Media.

Same goes with baseball. If you throw your jockstrap on the field in New York area they put you in HOF and you take up most of Ken Burns Baseball, while an Ernie Banks not New York gets mentioned just a few seconds. My bet is Tony Perez never makes HOF if not for his time in Boston and Philly so New York writers could see him. Maury Wills in Sports Illustrated said Tony was most under rated player in baseball. That must have changed when he played near New York.

The Ken Burns Baseball shows it. It's like, if it didn't happen in New York or Boston area, it never happened. That is what happened to Ken Riley in NFL.

Had Ken Anderson played for Giants or Jets or Patriots, forget about it. Anderson would have been a New York MUST for HOF.

[John Shaft]

Ken "the Rattler" Riley wasn't/isn't even honored IN HIS OWN STADIUM. That would have been a good place to start.

[BengalFanInNJ]

If this guy was a Steeler, he would have been in the HoF years ago.

[McC]

I''ll just repeat what has undoubtedly been said over and over. The fact that this man died without being in the HOF is nothing short of a travesty.

Seems like there should be a lot more peer voting input and a lot less input(power) from people who only ever watched the game.