Our best position group

[fredtoast]

I am hyped about the potential for our WR corps, but there artoo many question marks at this time for me to grade them that high.

Ross is one of the boiggest enigmas in the entire league.

As much as i like Higgens he could easily be another Jerome Simpson.

AJ Green will be a 32 year old WR who has not played in two years. He may never be close to the same player he was before.

Erickson and Tate are just "guys" like the others that fill out rosters all around the league. Neither is starter quality.

[kevin]

Looking at Bengals in last place in 2018 and 2019, I don't see a best position group. The blame must be shared across the board on this team.

Certainly a major investment was made in the draft at Quarterback. The HOPE is they found their Franchise Quarterback for the next 10 to 15 years. The Steelers were a last place team when they drafted Terry Bradshaw. The trick is to then build a team around him.

[impactplaya]

(07-04-2020, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am hyped about the potential for our WR corps, but there artoo many question marks at this time for me to grade them that high.

Ross is one of the boiggest enigmas in the entire league.

As much as i like Higgens he could easily be another Jerome Simpson.

AJ Green will be a 32 year old WR who has not played in two years.  He may never be close to the same player he was before.

Erickson and Tate are just "guys" like the others that fill out rosters all around the league.  Neither is starter quality.

I think Higgins is a more pure football player than Simpson ever was. Simpson was a athelete playing football.
Higgins comes from a college that is known for producing top NFL WRs. Not just serviceable starters but top
Shelf talent. Higgins ate up defenders from strong schools.Clemson WRs are ready to produce year much like Alabama WRs.
Simpson played  against future  car salesmen and insurance agents.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-04-2020, 04:05 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Higgins is a more pure football player than Simpson ever was. Simpson was a athelete playing football.
Higgins comes from a college that is known for producing top NFL WRs. Not just serviceable starters but top
Shelf talent. Higgins ate up defenders from strong schools.Clemson WRs are ready to produce year much like Alabama WRs.
Simpson played  against future  car salesmen and insurance agents.

I just had to look up where Simpson even went to college (Coastal Carolina). It’s gotten to the point the only things I really remember about him is the flip, and that he liked weed. Lol

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(07-04-2020, 04:05 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Higgins is a more pure football player than Simpson ever was. Simpson was a athelete playing football.
Higgins comes from a college that is known for producing top NFL WRs. Not just serviceable starters but top
Shelf talent. Higgins ate up defenders from strong schools.Clemson WRs are ready to produce year much like Alabama WRs.
Simpson played  against future  car salesmen and insurance agents.

I agree. I have a lot of confidence that Higgins will turn out well, but not a lot of confidence that it'll be this year. I predict that when everything shakes out, he'll be no higher than 4th, and probably more like 5th, on the depth chart for WRs. 

Then, either Green or Ross will walk next season, and Higgins will develop into one of our top 3 WRs. 

[treee]

(07-04-2020, 05:43 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I agree. I have a lot of confidence that Higgins will turn out well, but not a lot of confidence that it'll be this year. I predict that when everything shakes out, he'll be no higher than 4th, and probably more like 5th, on the depth chart for WRs. 

Then, either Green or Ross will walk next season, and Higgins will develop into one of our top 3 WRs. 

While I think you're right, I also wouldn't be surprised to see him solidifying a spot at WR3 by the middle of the season. The intangibles are there and seems pretty polished coming out of a program like Clemson.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-04-2020, 03:16 PM)kevin Wrote: Looking at Bengals in last place in 2018 and 2019, I don't see a best position group.  The blame must be shared across the board on this team.

Certainly a major investment was made in the draft at Quarterback.  The HOPE is they found their Franchise Quarterback for the next 10 to 15 years.  The Steelers were a last place team when they drafted Terry Bradshaw.  The trick is to then build a team around him.

We have some really good players, the DL and WR position groups are definitely to be envied by some other franchises.

The team appears to already be building around Joe Burrow.  Did you not notice the unusually high amount of free agency spending that the team invested in, this year?

[kevin]

(07-04-2020, 07:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We have some really good players, the DL and WR position groups are definitely to be envied by some other franchises.

The team appears to already be building around Joe Burrow.  Did you not notice the unusually high amount of free agency spending that the team invested in, this year?

The same owners and Duke spent a ton of money bringing in the Bills OT and LB and team was awful.  So I don't care what the team looks like on paper. The game isn't played on paper.  The game is played on the field. Only when I see WINS from this team will I see a turnaround from the losing.  To me the Bengals are easily the worst team over the last 2 seasons of 2018 and 2019.   Coach Taylor has not proved he deserves to be a coach.  The Brown Family seem the worst front office in NFL.  The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement,  From Offense to Defense to Coaching to Front Office there is not one area of this team that doesn't need to step it up 100 % and be better for this losing team to become a winning team.  This team so bad the fans are back to talking losing every game for draft picks each year.  The entire team needs a reboot, because nothing has been working. 

Again, such a major #1 Pick in Draft in QB, that better work out. There is a long road ahead before he is on a good team. LSU gave him blocking, will Bengals ? No blocking got #1 pick in draft Ki-Jana Carter destroyed instantly. No blocking had #1 pick in draft Carson Palmer hit more than any QB in NFL which lead to many major injuries. Against good defenses lets hope the top pick QB doesn't spend his career here getting clobbered every play, as fans boo the QB as they did Carson and Andy. Protect The Quarterback.

Bengals do not go in a Super Bowl team. They are worst team in NFL. I want WINS and NEW DEY, but the entire team must improve 100 % just to reach an 8-8 record. This team has been worse than Bad, getting coaches and players fired. They must become a TEAM, and that doesn't happen on paper.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-04-2020, 01:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I love how some act like they are "traumatized" cause a WR Percievably "quit running a route" 
Every NFL player makes a error or 100 in his career. 
The important to ask is " he is improving, he is learning from his mistakes ?
Ross made improvements in 2019. You don't lead the League  in reeciving yards after 2 weeks if you are going backwards. And his injury last year you can't blame on Ross. 
His hands can be improved on. But you cant  teach speed and acceleration. 

While I agree with all of this, I can't get as excited about Ross right now because the only way I see him being on the club in 2021 is if he has a "pretty good" year, like...maybe 50 catches and 850 yards, and 8 TDs.  That would be his best season yet, but wouldn't price him out of Cincinnati.  Even then, without having picked up his 5th year option (the right decision), he could still go to another team for a "fresh start".  

I hope he feels some connection with Burrow and maybe the team gives him a few more screens, but with Boyd already getting $10 million per.  AJ Green not likely to end up on another team (that potential cap reduction could change this, but I think the Bengals want him to retire a Bengal), and Tee Higgins being the 33rd overall pick in the draft I don't see many scenarios where Ross returns in 2021.

I don't mean to sound like that means you shouldn't try to use him in 2020....far from it.  But I guess I just see him as a one-year player right now and I can't get too excited about him now.  

[impactplaya]

(07-05-2020, 12:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I agree with all of this, I can't get as excited about Ross right now because the only way I see him being on the club in 2021 is if he has a "pretty good" year, like...maybe 50 catches and 850 yards, and 8 TDs.  That would be his best season yet, but wouldn't price him out of Cincinnati.  Even then, without having picked up his 5th year option (the right decision), he could still go to another team for a "fresh start".  

I hope he feels some connection with Burrow and maybe the team gives him a few more screens, but with Boyd already getting $10 million per.  AJ Green not likely to end up on another team (that potential cap reduction could change this, but I think the Bengals want him to retire a Bengal), and Tee Higgins being the 33rd overall pick in the draft I don't see many scenarios where Ross returns in 2021.

I don't mean to sound like that means you shouldn't try to use him in 2020....far from it.  But I guess I just see him as a one-year player right now and I can't get too excited about him now.  

I think Ross is the X factor in the WR room. What if Ross somehow can stay healthy and get on the same page as Burrow?  I dont think Ross gets 1000 yds this year. But he might be that guy that leads the WRS
In 20 yard plus catches and YPC. 
This is the 1st TIME  Ross has played under the same OC  back to back years.
People can love or hate Ross but he's the only WR other than A.J than can turn a 15 skinny post 
Into a 60 yd TD. Ross wants to prove his worth and ability has much as anyone else .
I'm curious to how the targets will shake out this year

[Essex Johnson]

This is pretty easy.. No group except One has two dominate players at that position... That would be DT... you have all returning players in veterans in Tupou, Glasgow and 19 2nd round pick in Wren...   No way is WR the best coming in.... AJ has been hurt too much to judge fairly... the Rookie has never played one NFL snap... Ross has been a bust.. Boyd is solid..

[Essex Johnson]

(07-05-2020, 04:55 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Ross is the X factor in the WR room. What if Ross somehow can stay healthy and get on the same page as Burrow?  I dont think Ross gets 1000 yds this year. But he might be that guy that leads the WRS
In 20 yard plus catches and YPC. 
This is the 1st TIME  Ross has played under the same OC  back to back years.
People can love or hate Ross but he's the only WR other than A.J than can turn a 15 skinny post 
Into a 60 yd TD. Ross wants to prove his worth and ability has much as anyone else .
I'm curious to how the targets will shake out this year

It is not Hate.. it is called Facts.. Ross has been hurt and very inconsistent.. stats are stats.. sure we hope he turns it around but we have said that every year.. you can;t judge a position coming in on just hope....  and to your put about skinny post.. no one runs worse routes than Ross that I can see

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-06-2020, 01:02 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: This is pretty easy.. No group except One has two dominate players at that position... That would be DT... plus Billings who was a starter last year is a solid backup and you have a host of young talent for the 4th DT... No way is WR the best coming in.... AJ has been hurt too much to judge fairly... the Rookie has never played one NFL snap... Ross has been a bust.. Boyd is solid..

Billings isn’t even on the team anymore...

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-05-2020, 04:55 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Ross is the X factor in the WR room. What if Ross somehow can stay healthy and get on the same page as Burrow?  I dont think Ross gets 1000 yds this year. But he might be that guy that leads the WRS
In 20 yard plus catches and YPC. 
This is the 1st TIME  Ross has played under the same OC  back to back years.
People can love or hate Ross but he's the only WR other than A.J than can turn a 15 skinny post 
Into a 60 yd TD. Ross wants to prove his worth and ability has much as anyone else .
I'm curious to how the targets will shake out this year

I want Ross to succeed and I know that he brings a skill set that no other WR on the team provides.   My point was that since I can't see him being here next year (2021), it is hard for me to think about him too much because I don't see him as a part of the team's long term plan.

One scenario is that AJ Green doesn't have a good season and Ross blows up.  Do you then let Green go and sign Ross long term?  Green should be thinking about that when considering a contract offer.  That being said, I still have more faith in Green despite his recent injuries.  I think he has a huge chip on his shoulder. 

[Essex Johnson]

(07-06-2020, 08:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Billings isn’t even on the team anymore...

Thanks, my late night post  forgot still stand by DT, no position has more dominant starters than Atkins and Reeder plus veterans in Tupou and Glasgow plus 19 4th rounder in Wren.. so not only the 2 best combo starters but I like returning players not rookies as backups.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-06-2020, 08:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I want Ross to succeed and I know that he brings a skill set that no other WR on the team provides.   My point was that since I can't see him being here next year (2021), it is hard for me to think about him too much because I don't see him as a part of the team's long term plan.

One scenario is that AJ Green doesn't have a good season and Ross blows up.  Do you then let Green go and sign Ross long term?  Green should be thinking about that when considering a contract offer.  That being said, I still have more faith in Green despite his recent injuries.  I think he has a huge chip on his shoulder. 

What skill set has Ross shown that no one else has.. 40 time is not a skill set on football field, I pointed out Erickson ran 4.4 range in 40 so not like he is slow.. sand Boyd has shown he is quick in the slot and dependable to make the catches and score in red zone..I have not seen much skill set from Ross that is so unique, especially getti g off the ball and route running like AJ on a consistent basis which then weakens areas he could stand out in the deep ball and slants...  as for screens he has not shown great hands which also hurts him in being effective on a consistent basis. I hope he turns it around but he has not shown a real consistent football skill that others can't replace as a group.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-06-2020, 09:35 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What skill set has Ross shown that no one else has.. 40 time is not a skill set on football field, I pointed out Erickson ran 4.4 range in 40 so not like he is slow.. sand Boyd has shown he is quick in the slot and dependable to make the catches and score in red zone..I have not seen much skill set from Ross that is so unique, especially getti g off the ball and route running like AJ on a consistent basis which then weakens areas he could stand out in the deep ball and slants...  as for screens he has not shown great hands which also hurts him in being effective on a consistent basis. I hope he turns it around but he has not shown a real consistent football skill that others can't replace as a group.

Sure enough, complement Ross's skill set and folks are sure to jump out at you.  Do one thing for me:  Watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnz6MPmtp4E&ab_channel=JustBombsProductions

It doesn't even have some of his best highlights that he did against Adoree Jackson, a former first-round pick out of USC.  

Using Boyd and Erickson as comparisons because they play in the slot is silly.  Ross plays outside and draws a safety away from the slot WR.  He still averages a TD every five receptions, just like he did in college.  

Ross has phone-booth quicks that no one else on the Bengals has in their arsenal.  Is he the most fluid receiver of the ball?  No.  Does he have a special skill set?  Yes.  If you can't understand that we can just agree to disagree because you won't convince me otherwise.  

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2020, 04:05 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Higgins is a more pure football player than Simpson ever was. Simpson was a athelete playing football.
Higgins comes from a college that is known for producing top NFL WRs. Not just serviceable starters but top
Shelf talent. Higgins ate up defenders from strong schools.Clemson WRs are ready to produce year much like Alabama WRs.
Simpson played  against future  car salesmen and insurance agents.

I also like Higgins potential to be a better player than Simpson.

I was just saying that even big name first round receivers from top schools flop sometimes.  So far Higgins is just "potential".

[impactplaya]

(07-06-2020, 01:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: It is not Hate.. it is called Facts.. Ross has been hurt and very inconsistent.. stats are stats.. sure we hope he turns it around but we have said that every year.. you can;t judge a position coming in on just hope....  and to your put about skinny post.. no one runs worse routes than Ross that I can see

Can you be more specific on how bad his route running is? That's just kind of a bland general statement.
His hands can be better for sure. But I have yet to see Ross drop a,pass in the end zone or dropped one
As he got past leverage or coverage on his way to end zone. 
I can tell from watching and experience you don't catch TDS in the red zone from bad route running. 
Every WR can work on their route running. Jerry Rice still worked on till the day he retired. 
One big issue I see with Ross is not him but how, this playbook has not let him run a full compliment 
Of routes to his advantage. Rarely do I see run whip or pivot routes. You can throw sluggo route in their too.
I need specific examples of his poor route running.
Cause his numbers in limited action improved in 2019 from 2018.
Unlike Alex Erickson , Ross provided big plays over 20 yds in 2019.

[jfkbengals]

(07-06-2020, 11:41 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Can you be more specific on how bad his route running is? That's just kind of a bland general statement.
His hands can be better for sure. But I have yet to see Ross drop a,pass in the end zone or dropped one
As he got past leverage or coverage on his way to end zone. 
I can tell from watching and experience you don't catch TDS in the red zone from bad route running. 
Every WR can work on their route running. Jerry Rice still worked on till the day he retired. 
One big issue I see with Ross is not him but how, this playbook has not let him run a full compliment 
Of routes to his advantage. Rarely do I see run whip or pivot routes. You can throw sluggo route in their too.
I need specific examples of his poor route running.
Cause his numbers in limited action improved in 2019 from 2018.
Unlike Alex Erickson , Ross provided big plays over 20 yds in 2019.

https://www.nfl.com/players/alex-erickson/stats/

What the hell are you talking about?  5 catches over 20 yards and 2 catches over 40 yards last season