Tate delivered today.

[impactplaya]

Look.at that list. Tate is the lowest drafted player.
But wait it must be a misprint from.PFF cause according
To.some of the WR experts on.here Auden Tate can only
Run 2 routes and he cant seperate.and he catches 40% of balls
Thrown.in.his direction.
He must of had a 19 grade like his jersey number.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-04-2020, 10:13 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Look.at that list. Tate is the lowest drafted player.
But wait it must be a misprint from.PFF cause according
To.some of the WR experts on.here Auden Tate can only
Run 2 routes and he cant seperate.and he catches 40% of balls
Thrown.in.his direction.
He must of had a 19 grade like his jersey number.

Tate doesn't get separation with his feet, which is why he has to use his body and leaping ability to make circus catches.
The 40% of balls caught is inaccurate.

Catch percentage by year:
2018 - 33.3%
2019 - 50%
2020 - 78.6%

So he's improving his catch percentage, which is a good thing.
He deserves to get more opportunities the remainder of this year, especially after his good game.
I doubt we'll ever see Tate ascend to being a 100+ yard receiver in a game, but consistently getting 50-70 yards a game would be solid for a WR3 in a passing-oriented offense.

[Yojimbo]

(11-04-2020, 12:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tate doesn't get separation with his feet, which is why he has to use his body and leaping ability to make circus catches.
The 40% of balls caught is inaccurate.

Catch percentage by year:
2018 - 33.3%
2019 - 50%
2020 - 78.6%

So he's improving his catch percentage, which is a good thing.
He deserves to get more opportunities the remainder of this year, especially after his good game.
I doubt we'll ever see Tate ascend to being a 100+ yard receiver in a game, but consistently getting 50-70 yards a game would be solid for a WR3 in a passing-oriented offense.

I pointed out in the game day thread, he doesn’t separate on the x axis well, but he does separate on the y axis at an elite level.

[higgy100]

IDC how a guy separates as long as he creates it. Jerry Rice ran precise patterns, lulled guys to sleep and out-worked everybody to get open and that slow Jerry Rice never get caught once he caught a pass. Certainly, any comparison of Tate to Rice one would need their head examined but there's been plenty of guys in the past similar to Tate who have had success.

Tate is who he is and he's physical enough to create separation, get to his spot, catch the ball and, as shown last week, both high-point the ball and go up and get it. The earlier a dog sniffs the bone the harder it is to take it away from him.

[impactplaya]

Id like to see Taylor involving him on more routes
Going north and south.he can be a more complete route
Runner. Hes already shown he can get through arm tackles

[Whatever]

(11-03-2020, 08:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Then, to get back to the topic...and facts. Is 5 first downs on 7 catches good?

Based on last year, your typical WR has a first down catch % ranging from low 60's to low 80s, weighted more towards the lower end of that range.  Statistically speaking, a 71.4% first down catch % is good, but not exceptional.  

First down catch % is a rarely used and little valued statistic, however, which begs the question as to why it is consistently brought up in reference to Tate and not other WR's around the league or even on the Bengals.  For example, John Ross had a 78% 1st down catch % last year.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-04-2020, 02:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: Based on last year, your typical WR has a first down catch % ranging from low 60's to low 80s, weighted more towards the lower end of that range.  Statistically speaking, a 71.4% first down catch % is good, but not exceptional.  

First down catch % is a rarely used and little valued statistic, however, which begs the question as to why it is consistently brought up in reference to Tate and not other WR's around the league or even on the Bengals.  For example, John Ross had a 78% 1st down catch % last year.  

Basically what i'm saying is, he's the 4th receiver and i feel that 7/7 with 5 first downs is a pretty good contribution to the team. Nothing spectacular or earth shattering. Just good production for the spot he was filling. 

If AJs not here, i think Tate has the ability to be a really good #3. 

[impactplaya]

(11-04-2020, 03:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Basically what i'm saying is, he's the 4th receiver and i feel that 7/7 with 5 first downs is a pretty good contribution to the team. Nothing spectacular or earth shattering. Just good production for the spot he was filling. 

If AJs not here, i think Tate has the ability to be a really good #3. 

If 70 to 80 % of your catches go for a 1st down in a game thats good for any WR no matter if he is 1-2 or whatever.
A 1st down moves the chains, keeps the drive alive.
Offense cant penetrate the red zone with 1st downs unless you draw a PI 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2020, 02:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tate makes PFF team of the week.

Patrick Mahomes headlines PFF's Week 8 Offensive TOTW ? pic.twitter.com/4jgUB3Fzsu

— PFF (@PFF) November 3, 2020

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wild. He did play well, just didn't know he played THAT well.

Damn Corey Davis.

[Whatever]

(11-04-2020, 03:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Basically what i'm saying is, he's the 4th receiver and i feel that 7/7 with 5 first downs is a pretty good contribution to the team. Nothing spectacular or earth shattering. Just good production for the spot he was filling. 

If AJs not here, i think Tate has the ability to be a really good #3. 

He had a good game and made some great plays, no question.  

I don't like him as a #3. Tate has things that he's very good at, but he also has things that he's not very good at.  As a #4, you can work him into spots, get him favorable matchups, and play to his strengths.  As a #3, he's going to be in a lot more positions where he will be forced to play to his weaknesses and we'll see diminishing returns. I personally would like to see someone with a more well rounded skill set in that role.  I think this team would also benefit more from a vertical threat in that spot.

[Wes Mantooth]

Regarding seperation, or lack thereof, I really don't think you can gauge Tate's ability to do so based on what we've seen Zac Taylor's offense.

I actually started a thread on this, and was tempted to bump it again after last week's game. I've never seen offense that has receivers so blanketed on almost every play. Our guys have guys draped all over them, or immediately have defenders around them when the ball is caught. We make what should be relatively easy throws look like a damn miracle sometimes due to the coverage.

I'm not sure if this is due to the defenses just knowing what we're doing, and we're not fooling anyone, or if it's by design to just beat people to balls. But when you watch this offense it looks like no one is getting any seperation, not just Tate.

[impactplaya]

(11-04-2020, 06:35 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Regarding seperation, or lack thereof, I really don't think you can gauge Tate's ability to do so based on what we've seen Zac Taylor's offense.

I actually started a thread on this, and was tempted to bump it again after last week's game.  I've never seen offense that has receivers so blanketed on almost every play.  Our guys have guys draped all over them, or immediately have defenders around them when the ball is caught.  We make what should be relatively easy throws look like a damn miracle sometimes due to the coverage.

I'm not sure if this is due to the defenses just knowing what we're doing, and we're not fooling anyone, or if it's by design to just beat people to balls.  But when you watch this offense it looks like no one is getting any seperation, not just Tate.

At this moment the offense lacks a true burner on the field
Ross fits that role skillset wise but he has been inactive

Not having that vertical blazer really condenses your routes 
In the underneath and intermediate zones of the field.
Your safety can play up more and help bracket  A Green or Boyd.

When I see teams play the Bengals in single high coverage 
I dont understand why they dont run more wheel routes
Or sluggo routes

[Whatever]

(11-04-2020, 06:35 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Regarding seperation, or lack thereof, I really don't think you can gauge Tate's ability to do so based on what we've seen Zac Taylor's offense.

I actually started a thread on this, and was tempted to bump it again after last week's game.  I've never seen offense that has receivers so blanketed on almost every play.  Our guys have guys draped all over them, or immediately have defenders around them when the ball is caught.  We make what should be relatively easy throws look like a damn miracle sometimes due to the coverage.

I'm not sure if this is due to the defenses just knowing what we're doing, and we're not fooling anyone, or if it's by design to just beat people to balls.  But when you watch this offense it looks like no one is getting any seperation, not just Tate.

Boyd is getting 2.9 yards of separation on average per NFL Next Gen Stats, which is pretty middle of the pack.  Higgins is at 2.3, which is bad, but he's a rookie and not a polished route runner yet.  AJ is at 1.8, which is bottom of the heap, but he still draws double teams which hurts him in that area.  The lack of a true deep threat hurts, as well as the lack of team speed.at that position.  The big difference this year is Burrow has tremendous ball placement and can squeeze the ball into well covered receivers, whereas Dalton couldn't.

Sample is 6th among TE's in separation with 3.6 fwiw.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2020, 09:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: Boyd is getting 2.9 yards of separation on average per NFL Next Gen Stats, which is pretty middle of the pack.  Higgins is at 2.3, which is bad, but he's a rookie and not a polished route runner yet.  AJ is at 1.8, which is bottom of the heap, but he still draws double teams which hurts him in that area.  The lack of a true deep threat hurts, as well as the lack of team speed.at that position.  The big difference this year is Burrow has tremendous ball placement and can squeeze the ball into well covered receivers, whereas Dalton couldn't.

Sample is 6th among TE's in separation with 3.6 fwiw.

Dude cannot get open, not happening...

Worst second round pick ever!

I just think Burrow goes through his progressions and tries to hit the big play Receiver more right now as the season goes on
rather than the TE. Cause yeah, Burrow has tremendous ball placement and accuracy, extremely rare.

[Whatever]

(11-04-2020, 09:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude cannot get open, not happening...

Worst second round pick ever!

I just think Burrow goes through his progressions and tries to hit the big play Receiver more right now as the season goes on
rather than the TE. Cause yeah, Burrow has tremendous ball placement and accuracy, extremely rare.

I think it's more of a game plan thing, to be honest.  Sample either tends to get a bunch of targets in a game or be a non factor.  For example, he had 9 targets the first Cleveland game and 6 the second.  Or, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Tate got 4 targets against the Eagles and 7 against the Titans and neither team has a CB over 6'.  On the other hand, the Browns have a number of big CB's and he didn't dress the first game and was only targeted once the second.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2020, 10:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think it's more of a game plan thing, to be honest.  Sample either tends to get a bunch of targets in a game or be a non factor.  For example, he had 9 targets the first Cleveland game and 6 the second.  Or, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Tate got 4 targets against the Eagles and 7 against the Titans and neither team has a CB over 6'.  On the other hand, the Browns have a number of big CB's and he didn't dress the first game and was only targeted once the second.  

Makes sense. I just see how Burrow has been trying to make the big play a lot more lately then he was earlier in the year.

Not as many check downs as earlier in the year from what I have been seeing. Just might be cause he is gaining confidence and
getting a bit more time in the pocket with better O-line play. Spain helped big time in just one game, wanted this guy here but
didn't expect him to have such an impact immediately at LG. Think this was a great pick up.

BTW, haven't watched the Steelers much this year. How big are their CB's I wonder?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-04-2020, 06:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: He had a good game and made some great plays, no question.  

I don't like him as a #3. Tate has things that he's very good at, but he also has things that he's not very good at.  As a #4, you can work him into spots, get him favorable matchups, and play to his strengths.  As a #3, he's going to be in a lot more positions where he will be forced to play to his weaknesses and we'll see diminishing returns. I personally would like to see someone with a more well rounded skill set in that role.  I think this team would also benefit more from a vertical threat in that spot.

He had 575 yds last season when he was basically the #2. So he was certainly seeing better DB’s than he is as a 4/5. How much of that was in garbage time is debatable, but he was also somewhat limited by bad QB play.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2020, 10:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He had 575 yds last season when he was basically the #2. So he was certainly seeing better DB’s than he is as a 4/5. How much of that was in garbage time is debatable, but he was also somewhat limited by bad QB play.

The QB play was terribly inaccurate last season no question.

The difference in accuracy at the QB position is stark to say the least from last year.

[Whatever]

(11-04-2020, 10:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He had 575 yds last season when he was basically the #2. So he was certainly seeing better DB’s than he is as a 4/5. How much of that was in garbage time is debatable, but he was also somewhat limited by bad QB play.

Erickson and Ross both had 500+ yards last year and I don't want to see either of them as the #3 next year, either.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-05-2020, 01:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: Erickson and Ross both had 500+ yards last year and I don't want to see either of them as the #3 next year, either.  

I agree with you there.