Tempered Expectations with Burrow

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-25-2020, 03:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You and others confuse me. You rant for years ML was a bad HC. You rant AD was a horrible QB.

I digress, but the reality is I always set high expectations for my employees and myself. I don't make excuses for them in case they fail to do their job.

So, KMA, I will never stop expecting great things from anyone I know is capable of great things.

Marvin Lewis wasn’t a bad HC. He was just here too long, and didn’t get us over the hump. Same goes for Andy Dalton.

Playoffs or bust is just ridiculous expectations for a team that won 2 games last season. Idc how many FA’s we added. It’s going to take time for this team to gel. Especially the OL. Another area Dalton came into a better situation btw.

Also “KMA?” Grow up.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-25-2020, 04:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: ML was never "a bad" HC, he just wasn't a great HC. He just couldn't get over the hump. And AD was never a "horrible QB" like ML he just had his limitations.

I think most on here would agree with that.

As far as JB's expectations I believe we should expect a lot. It's just that you also have to understand he's a rookie and he's going to make some rookie mistakes. But I believe his learning curve even with pretty much no practice will advance quickly. He's a fart smeller.

[J24]

The only thing that really worries me about Burrow is the Offensive Line other than that the pieces are there for a successful season.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-25-2020, 06:20 PM)J24 Wrote: The only thing that really worries me about Burrow is the Offensive Line other than that the pieces are there for a successful season.

It also remains to be seen whether or not ZT can be an effective play caller.

[impactplaya]

Burrow can easily do as well as Baker Mayfield did his rookie year. And Baker had less talent
Around him then Burrow does. Plus Mayfield had a idiot for a OC too.
I will.even say JB can replicate what AD did as far as efficiency goes his rookie year.
Only a oline that fails.to be cohesive this year will hold Burrow back

JB has the smarts and intangibles to breathe life into this offense

[fredtoast]

Dalton was just a second round pick, not number one overall, but he stepped into a loaded team with great coaches.

One of the best LTs in team history (Whitworth). A solid vet RG (Bobbie Williams). RT Andre Smith had been a bust his first two season due to injury. But from '11-'13 he was a very good RT. I believe in '13 PFF rated him as the best RT in the league. Kyle Cook was also a very good OC before his injury in '12. I think he only allowed 6 sacks over his first three full seasons as a starter. Pat Kirwan at Sports Illustrated had Cook on his "Pro Bowl Snub" list in '11. And no matter how much you want to shit on Nate Livings he was not that bad. He played well enough to get a fat contract in free agency and none of the experts were screaming that Dallas overpaid. That was a very good experienced offensive line.

Joe will have better skill players, but his O-line could be a disaster. I love Jonah Williams, but at this point he has not proven he can play well in the NFL. After Price and Ogbuehi we all know that first round picks are not guranteed to even be decent starters. Sua-Filo has been a back up since getting cut by the Titans in '18. I like Jordan's potential, but he looked horrible last year. Trey Hopkins is our only "proven starter" and he is no better than a middle of the pack OC. Bobby Hart improved a lot last year, but I am not even sure he has a starting spot guaranteed. It is so bad that some fans are excited about a scrub the steelers cut last year or even our sixth round pick being able to contribute this year.

[Big Boss]

Burrow is Moses.

[ezekiel23]

Joe Burrow is a whole different Quarterback in what we had with Andy Dalton.This guy is ferociously competitive and is a natural leader with loads of confidence.He has all the qualities of a future pro bowl Quarterback.I think he’ll be just fine.It was mentioned that he’ll Throw some interceptions and make some bad decisions at times,but even elite veteran Quarterbacks do that at times when the heat is on.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-25-2020, 04:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Smart feller, sorry

[HarleyDog]

(07-25-2020, 09:01 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Burrow is Moses.

I hope not. Didn't Moses lead his people in the desert for 40yrs doing circles? If that's Burrow, let's trade him to the Steelers. I can't wait 40yrs to get a SB. Crap, I won't live that long.

Crap! What am I laughing at? I just realized I'm gonna die someday. 

Oh well, Cheers! 

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2020, 08:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton was just a second round pick, not number one overall, but he stepped into a loaded team with great coaches.

One of the best LTs in team history (Whitworth).  A solid vet RG (Bobbie Williams).  RT Andre Smith had been a bust his first two season due to injury.  But from '11-'13 he was a very good RT.  I believe in '13 PFF rated him as the best RT in the league.  Kyle Cook was also a very good OC before his injury in '12.  I think he only allowed 6 sacks over his first three full seasons as a starter.  Pat Kirwan at Sports Illustrated had Cook on his "Pro Bowl Snub" list in '11.  And no matter how much you want to shit on Nate Livings he was not that bad.  He played well enough to get a fat contract in free agency and none of the experts were screaming that Dallas overpaid.  That was a very good experienced offensive line.

Joe will have better skill players, but his O-line could be a disaster.  I love Jonah Williams, but at this point he has not proven he can play well in the NFL.  After Price and Ogbuehi we all know that first round picks are not guranteed to even be decent starters.  Sua-Filo has been  a back up since getting cut by the Titans in '18.  I like Jordan's potential, but he looked horrible last year.  Trey Hopkins is our only "proven starter" and he is no better than a middle of the pack OC.  Bobby Hart improved a lot last year, but I am not even sure he has a starting spot guaranteed.  It  is so bad that some fans are excited about a scrub the steelers cut last year or even our sixth round pick being able to contribute this year.

A healthy CP could not win in 2010, byt Dalton did win. Why?

It is way too early to right off our 2020 OL, like you said Smith did not play well in 208 to 2010, but did in 2011. Why can't Hart get better> Why can't Jonah be very good? I know this, Dalton did not have A vet Green, Boyd, Ross, a projected #1 WR pick we got with 33rd pick, Tate and others who may get cut. He did not have a Joe Mixon, Gio combo at RB.

I do know the majority of the media picked the Bengals by far as worst team in NFL in 2011, not so much for the 2020 Bengals as noone is saying worst team in the league

[impactplaya]

(07-25-2020, 08:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton was just a second round pick, not number one overall, but he stepped into a loaded team with great coaches.

One of the best LTs in team history (Whitworth).  A solid vet RG (Bobbie Williams).  RT Andre Smith had been a bust his first two season due to injury.  But from '11-'13 he was a very good RT.  I believe in '13 PFF rated him as the best RT in the league.  Kyle Cook was also a very good OC before his injury in '12.  I think he only allowed 6 sacks over his first three full seasons as a starter.  Pat Kirwan at Sports Illustrated had Cook on his "Pro Bowl Snub" list in '11.  And no matter how much you want to shit on Nate Livings he was not that bad.  He played well enough to get a fat contract in free agency and none of the experts were screaming that Dallas overpaid.  That was a very good experienced offensive line.

Joe will have better skill players, but his O-line could be a disaster.  I love Jonah Williams, but at this point he has not proven he can play well in the NFL.  After Price and Ogbuehi we all know that first round picks are not guranteed to even be decent starters.  Sua-Filo has been  a back up since getting cut by the Titans in '18.  I like Jordan's potential, but he looked horrible last year.  Trey Hopkins is our only "proven starter" and he is no better than a middle of the pack OC.  Bobby Hart improved a lot last year, but I am not even sure he has a starting spot guaranteed.  It  is so bad that some fans are excited about a scrub the steelers cut last year or even our sixth round pick being able to contribute this year.

Before you totally close the door on Fred Johnson,  sometimes another teams trash is another teams treasure 

Fred Johnson played well enough in 2 games last year to warrant a serious consideration at a positon 
That is in need of a upgrade 

He did more than hold his own vs the Dolphins and Browns. I think the offense averaged more than 27 pts
Per game in those last 2 games. I could be wrong but you can corralate good offensive output and good 
Play from your LT. 

The fact he came from Pittsburgh tells me he might be a diamond in the rough..and I will add 
The Steelers organization as a whole as done a much more superlative job in finding oline talent than 
The Bengals front office has over the last 10 years 
 
You call Fred Johnson a scrub based on what ? 
Who is the Steelers LT? 
Oh yeah he was cut by the Bengals before  the Steelers signe him. He must be a scrub too.

(07-13-2020, 07:50 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I had (and probably still have buried somewhere amidst the rubble) a VHS of that game.  I kept the tape cued to the point where he took it to the house.  Watching at the time I too thought it meant we were going to win, like it was some sort sort of sign, like how could they possibly lose after that, right?  Thirty-one-plus years later and it's still a kick in the 'nads.  

I remember they also had some sort of 3D halftime show and you had to get special glasses at 7-Eleven or some damn thing.  Think the glasses are still with the tape.  

[J24]

(07-25-2020, 10:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: A healthy CP could not win in 2010, byt Dalton did win. Why?

It is way too early to right off our 2020 OL, like you said Smith did not play well in 208 to 2010, but did in 2011. Why can't Hart get better> Why can't Jonah be very good? I know this, Dalton did not have A vet Green, Boyd, Ross, a projected #1 WR pick we got with 33rd pick, Tate and others who may get cut. He did not have a Joe Mixon, Gio combo at RB.

I do know the majority of the media picked the Bengals by far as worst team in NFL in 2011, not so much for the 2020 Bengals as noone is saying worst team in the league

The difference between Carson & Dalton in 2010 vs 2011 was the offense was built around Carson & the offense in 2010. While in 2011 the team was built around running the football and the defense.

That was the reason for the turnaround between those two seasons. We were built on a better foundation in 2011 then 2010.

Now the good thing about  this team is it is built more like 2011 than people realize.


The defense improved tremendously as the season  went along + with the new additions in the off season. I see a unit that will be very good next season. 

If Mixon  can maintain his play from the 2nd Half of last season then I see a team that is built nicely for a rookie QB to come in and have immediate success. Like we had in 2011 with Dalton.

[Tony]

Its always he will make rookie mistakes blah blah learn the speed of the game... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he takes the Bengals to the AFCCG in his first year. No reason, Just got that feeling this kid is real special..

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 01:00 AM)impactplaya Wrote: You call Fred Johnson a scrub based on what ? 
Who is the Steelers LT? 
Oh yeah he was cut by the Bengals before  the Steelers signe him. He must be a scrub too.

I call Johnson a scrub because no team thought he was good enough to draft, and the team that signed him cut him.  He may develop into a good football player. But right now he is juts a scrub.  If the performance over one-and-a-half meaningless games against terrible defenses meant anything then Christian Westerman would be playiong somewhere.  

But Johnson could develop into a good player.  Last year was just his rookie season and anything is possible. And if he does I won't be like the people who hate on a player and refuse to admit when he does improve.  I will be happy to get good players anywhere.

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 01:00 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Who is the Steelers LT? 
Oh yeah he was cut by the Bengals before  the Steelers signe him. He must be a scrub too.

So you are saying Johnson could learn a new position and be a starter 5 years from now?

Can't wait.

[fredtoast]

(07-25-2020, 10:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: A healthy CP could not win in 2010, byt Dalton did win. Why?

The offensive numbers in 2011 were still bottom half in the league (18th pts) and were not really a lot better than 2010 (22nd pts).  The difference was a massive improvement by the defense from 24th to 9th.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-25-2020, 06:20 PM)J24 Wrote: The only thing that really worries me about Burrow is the Offensive Line other than that the pieces are there for a successful season.

One of the things that makes Joe so special, is his ability to maintain his composure and focus down field, after the protection breaks down.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-26-2020, 10:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: One of the things that makes Joe so special, is his ability to maintain his composure and focus down field, after the protection breaks down.

And if he can buy even a little more time DB’s are not going to be able to keep covering Ross, AJ, and Boyd.

It remains to be seen if he can do it against an NFL DL, but a lot of the teams he played in the SEC did have some high end pass rushers.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-26-2020, 10:42 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And if he can buy even a little more time DB’s are not going to be able to keep covering Ross, AJ, and Boyd.

It remains to be seen if he can do it against an NFL DL, but a lot of the teams he played in the SEC did have some high end pass rushers.

I don't feel like he'll have much of an adjustment with the speed of the rush/line play at the NFL level.  The big adjustment will be in the speed of the defenders in coverage, and how quickly those passing lanes disappear, compared to the NCAA level.