Tempered Expectations with Burrow

[impactplaya]

(07-26-2020, 09:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I call Johnson a scrub because no team thought he was good enough to draft, and the team that signed him cut him.  He may develop into a good football player. But right now he is juts a scrub.  If the performance over one-and-a-half meaningless games against terrible defenses meant anything then Christian Westerman would be playiong somewhere.  

But Johnson could develop into a good player.  Last year was just his rookie season and anything is possible. And if he does I won't be like the people who hate on a player and refuse to admit when he does improve.  I will be happy to get good players anywhere.

In 82 pass attempts Johnson didn't allow a single pressure ,hit, or sack.
He didnt determine who was lined up across from him in those 2 games. 

As far as learning a new position it happens in the NFL. Jedrick Willis of the Browns is learning a,new position.


He played aa well as,any OT for the Bengals last year. In fact he probally outplayed all of them.

[Luvnit2]

I love how fans are anxious to give Joe Burrow a #1 overall pick in the NFL prior to the season, but have never given other later draft picks a pass as rookies?

Why is that?

Why can't a young 2nd, 3rd or 4th year player improve in the Bengals forum? But, we know a guy like Geno improved with experience and age.

My point is we have been comparing 2011 (AD 1st year) and 2020 which will be Joe's 1st year. Both took over bad teams, AD we know took a bad team to the playoffs. Joe may or may not, but AD did it with help as some guys stepped up. Joe needs his all pro receiver to play every game and step, he needs Williams and the OL to step up. He needs the defense to have guys step up.

My point being Joe could have a great year and we lose if the defense and special teams suck. Or, he could have a bad year too. We don't know, so no excuses prior, let's see how it plays out in 2020.

I think Joe will do his part to make us better, but we need a lot more than Joe to be a winner just as AD did as well.

[impactplaya]

I think Burrow will raise the level of accountability in the lockeroom. Some QBS have that ability
To instill a belief and confidence in players. If a guy isn't pulling
His,weight or if he's constantly not executing as designed
JB will call him out.
If a,guy screwed up on offense AD was not to call him out

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-26-2020, 02:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I love how fans are anxious to give Joe Burrow a #1 overall pick in the NFL prior to the season, but have never given other later draft picks a pass as rookies?

Why is that?

Why can't a young 2nd, 3rd or 4th year player improve in the Bengals forum? But, we know a guy like Geno improved with experience and age.

My point is we have been comparing 2010 (AD 1st year) and 2020 which will be Joe's 1st year. Both took over bad teams, AD we know took a bad team to the playoffs. Joe may or may not, but AD did it with help as some guys stepped up. Joe needs his all pro receiver to play every game and step, he needs Williams and the OL to step up. He needs the defense to have guys step up.

My point being Joe could have a great year and we lose is the defense and special teams suck. Or, he could have a bad year too. We don't know, so no excuses prior, let's see how it plays out in 2020.

I think Joe will do his part to make us better, but we need a lot more than Joe to be a winner just as AD did as well.

Dalton’s first year was 2011.

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 11:57 AM)impactplaya Wrote: In 82 pass attempts Johnson didn't allow a single pressure ,hit, or sack.
He didnt determine who was lined up across from him in those 2 games. 

He can't control who he lined up over but that does not mean we have to ignore it when we judge him.

Dalton only threw the ball about 25 times against the Browns so most of those must have been against the Dolphins who were 32nd in the league in sacks.

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 02:10 PM)impactplaya Wrote: If a,guy screwed up on offense AD was not to call him out

C'mon man, You have no idea if this is true.

[Luvnit2]

(07-26-2020, 02:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dalton’s first year was 2011.

My bad, that is all you looked for was a mistake in years. I guess the rest wnet way over your head as always.

I will edit it for you.

[impactplaya]

(07-26-2020, 02:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon man, You have no idea if this is true.

Andy was the QB for 9 years. You know how it how it is with the 
Internet....those things come out eventually.
Andy was never documented to exactly call out 
His teammates I don't think that is how he handled things when things went wrong.. Now Tom Brady is on record for being Michael Jordan-esque
When it came to calling out his past Patriot teammates 
But I do know AD was never shy about taking the blame even if his teammate 
Was at fault 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-26-2020, 02:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My bad, that is all you looked for was a mistake in years. I guess the rest wnet way over your head as always.

I will edit it for you.

Yeah, silly me for letting actual facts get in the way of a good whine.

Also, FFS man, how long is your heartbreak over Andy Dalton gonna last? Are we going to have to suffer your passive aggressive nonsense about Burrow indefinitely? Or is there at least an estimated timeframe you can give us?

[Wes Mantooth]

Leadership, and the ability to bring others to task takes time. True respect is earned, not given.

To each their own, but IMHO the very best thing Joe can do is just do his best to set a good example. Show that he cares and show that he's doing everything he can to succeed. Bring energy and postivity everyday. And I think he can do that. Then, hopefully what follows that is some semblance of success. Rinse and repeat, day after day, week after week.

Then, and only then, can he truly inspire confidence. Then, and only then, can he bring real accountability along with his role and into the locker room.

The NFL at the end of the day isn't all that much different than what occurs with normal workplace politics. I don't care how highly regarded a new hire or employee is, until they actually produce, and do so over a sustained amount of time, people need to see to believe. Respect and admiration builds over time.

I think Joe can be a great player one day, and I hope he can be an even great leader. But it's naive to think that he can step in from day 1 and do so at a greater level than Andy Dalton did after years and years of service. If you think Joe is immediately going to command more respect and be able to go in on guys then you're getting way ahead of yourself.

Admitting that he's not going to command a locker room IMMEDIATELY at a greater level than a veteran Andy doesn't mean that makes him a bad a leader, and it certainly doesn't mean it makes Andy a great leader either. It's just the reality of the situation. Give it time.

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 02:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Andy was the QB for 9 years. You know how it how it is with the 
Internet....those things come out eventually.

Then post a link to his teammates saying he never called anyone out.

All I ever heard was that he was a well respected leader.  And, yes, I can provide links to teammates saying that if you claim it is not true.

So since it "came out" post the link.

[fredtoast]

(07-26-2020, 03:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, silly me for letting actual facts get in the way of a good whine.

Also, FFS man, how long is your heartbreak over Andy Dalton gonna last? Are we going to have to suffer your passive aggressive nonsense about Burrow indefinitely? Or is there at least an estimated timeframe you can give us?

Luvinit made a comment PRAISING Burrow and asking why people had lower expectations for him than what Dalton accomplished.  How the hell is that "passive aggressive nonsense about Burrow"?

You and Impactplaya were the ones obsessed with turning this into a "shit on Dalton" thread. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-26-2020, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Luvinit made a comment PRAISING Burrow and asking why people had lower expectations for him than what Dalton accomplished.  How the hell is that "passive aggressive nonsense about Burrow"?

You and Impactplaya were the ones obsessed with turning this into a "shit on Dalton" thread. 

WTF are you taking about? Show me where in this thread that I “shit on Dalton?”

As far as Luvinit’s preemptive “Burrow is not as good as Dalton if he doesn’t make the playoffs his rookie season” nonsense? Yeah, let’s just give him the benefit of the doubt here. It’s not like he’s the guy that said Dalton could very likely beat out Burrow in a QB competition...

His whole act lately is all about being upset that people are not going to hold a rookie QB (even a #1OA) to the same standards as a veteran QB. And that’s somehow really unfair to him. Weird logic, I know.

[WestCoastBengalsFan]

(07-26-2020, 02:08 AM)Tony Wrote: Its always he will make rookie mistakes blah blah learn the speed of the game... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he takes the Bengals to the AFCCG in his first year. No reason, Just got that feeling this kid is real special..

I would love this! Unlikely, but man it would be great.

[WestCoastBengalsFan]

Side note - to some of you corncobs trying to turn this into a Dalton vs. Burrow thread that noise elsewhere. Go create your own thread to argue endlessly/aimlessly.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-26-2020, 04:35 PM)WestCoastBengalsFan Wrote: Side note - to some of you corncobs trying to turn this into a Dalton vs. Burrow thread that noise elsewhere. Go create your own thread to argue endlessly/aimlessly.

I’d love for people to move on from talking about Dalton...

[Tony]

(07-26-2020, 04:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d love for people to move on from talking about Dalton...

I can't believe people are still going on about him. He failed here plain and simple. He was part of the problem and is gone now... Let's just let it be already. I hope Burrow goes out and has a better year than any of Andy's years let alone his rookie year, so this all stops ... 

[*Synric*]

I wouldn't say my expectations need tempered because I've considered 2020 a growth year for a while now.The Bengals are a young team and a lot of these guys haven't really played together.

On the offensive like as it looks right now only Michael Jordan and Trey Hopkins will be the only two returning linemen to play next to each other in 2020. The Bengals rebuilt a huge portion of the defense so they all need to learn to work with together and communicate. Joe Burrow has to build chemistry and trust with his receiving core. I'm thinking it will be a mediocre season especially considering the state of the AFC North.

...That said there is ALOT of talent on the Bengals roster and they could surprise everyone.

[impactplaya]

(07-26-2020, 06:08 PM)Synric Wrote: I wouldn't say my expectations need tempered because I've considered 2020 a growth year for a while now.The Bengals are a young team and a lot of these guys haven't really played together.

On the offensive like as it looks right now only Michael Jordan and Trey Hopkins will be the only two returning linemen to play next to each other in 2020. The Bengals rebuilt a huge portion of the defense so they all need to learn to work with together and communicate. Joe Burrow has to build chemistry and trust with his receiving core. I'm thinking it will be a mediocre season especially considering the state of the AFC North.

...That said there is ALOT of talent on the Bengals roster and they could surprise everyone.

The Bengals lost 8 games by less than a TD in 2019. They had 
Lead in the 3rd quarter in many of those games.
I don't think Burrow walking into such a rebuild situation 
As people think they they are. How many wins was a healthy AJ Green worth last year ?
Even before Burrow throws a pass you can sense the culture is starting to change 
Cancers and malcontents are gone like Cordy Glenn.

Very few 1st year QBS walk into a plethora of talent that JB has to work with 

[*Synric*]

(07-26-2020, 06:24 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The Bengals lost 8 games by less than a TD in 2019. They had 
Lead in the 3rd quarter in many of those games.
I don't think Burrow walking into such a rebuild situation 
As people think they they are. How many wins was a healthy AJ Green worth last year ?
Even before Burrow throws a pass you can sense the culture is starting to change 
Cancers and malcontents are gone like Cordy Glenn.

Very few 1st year QBS walk into a plethora of talent that JB has to work with 

Losing by one score is quite common in the NFL. How many were them fighting back within one score in garbage time? A few.

As for talent yes the Bengals have talent but so does most NFL teams just look at the AFC North. Two of the 4 teams in the North had top 10 defenses almost top 5. The Browns upgraded both sides of the ball in Free Agency and the Draft.

I think the Bengals arrow is pointing up but they still have to compete against 3 good teams in the North.