This team is starting to remind of the 2000s Bengals

[DYT_Bengal]

The game has changed for better and for worse, but I will always look upon the ‘05 season as the most exciting season since I have followed the team. ‘15 had talent, but I never got the feeling of confidence that I had in ‘05 when Carson was throwing to Chad Johnson. I’m getting that confidence from the offensive side of the ball, maybe not this year, but this is going to be a legit team sooner or later.

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-15-2020, 06:32 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: The game has changed for better and for worse, but I will always look upon the ‘05 season as the most exciting season since I have followed the team. ‘15 had talent, but I never got the feeling of confidence that I had in ‘05 when Carson was throwing to Chad Johnson. I’m getting that confidence from the offensive side of the ball, maybe not this year, but this is going to be a legit team sooner or later.

Based on some hype vids? I’m loving this team’s potential too but we are soooo early it’s hard to really know anything!

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-15-2020, 06:32 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: The game has changed for better and for worse, but I will always look upon the ‘05 season as the most exciting season since I have followed the team. ‘15 had talent, but I never got the feeling of confidence that I had in ‘05 when Carson was throwing to Chad Johnson.  I’m getting that confidence from the offensive side of the ball, maybe not this year, but this is going to be a legit team sooner or later.

I definitely agree with you. There's so much "newness" that surrounds this team that's it's hard not to compare it to how I felt back then.

What's crazy is, even though '05 was probably the most exciting of all those years, I'd argue that '03 might have been the most fun of them.  It was like a breathe of fresh air.

It's kind of nice not knowing exactly what to expect with this roster. With so many new faces it's hard not to let your imagination run wild about what could be.

That's was my biggest my problem with the 2nd half of Marvin's tenure. I always had a good idea of what we could expect.  Usually somewhat decent and more than competitive, but a conservative approach that never resulted in anthing remotely close to greatness.

Now?  Who knows?  If this team can can somewhat mimic those early Marvin teams in success then I'll be extemely happy.  If we can get 8-8 out of this roster then that bodes extemely well for the future. I haven't been this excited for a Bengals team in a long, long time.

[HarleyDog]

Yep, I'm excited as well. I want to watch this team gel together. I have my cool head about the season and knowing they may or may not reach greatness. Yet, the potential is high. So pumped I wish I could fast forward 3 weeks. But, I'm not young so I'm enjoying day by day. I think we will have a season like the movie "Major League" and those clips of the japanese guys. At the end, these guys won't be shitty.

[corpjet]

Bigger than on field action, we need to look at the culture and how its changing for the better.

We can slam Marvin all we want and a lot rightfully so but one thing is for sure, he had no control of the locker room and had way too many guys with character issues!

[*jason*]

(08-15-2020, 09:29 PM)corpjet Wrote: Bigger than on field action, we need to look at the culture and how its changing for the better.

We can slam Marvin all we want and a lot rightfully so but one thing is for sure, he had no control of the locker room and had way too many guys with character issues!

It was Mike Brown bringing in the cheap labor with character issues... Remember when Marv wanted no part of bringing Chris Henry back that one year, but was overruled?

[PDub80]

(08-15-2020, 09:37 PM)jason Wrote: It was Mike Brown bringing in the cheap labor with character issues... Remember when Marv wanted no part of bringing Chris Henry back that one year, but was overruled?

Who knows what the deal really was with bad character guys? I think the "Blame Mike Brown" narrative is BS, though. I mean, those stories have been mostly all debunked.

What I do know is that since Marvin's been gone a lot of character issue players are gone and so are most of the look at me guys. And they're spending money on winners in their prime, cutting fat, and drafting smart, high character guys.

Deductive reasoning says to look at the variables to see what has changed and what has stayed to determine cause and effect. Mike Brown is still there... Marvin's gone.... and look at all of the changes. Tough to still sit there and blame Mike Brown to me.

[*jason*]

(08-15-2020, 10:14 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Who knows what the deal really was with bad character guys? I think the "Blame Mike Brown" narrative is BS, though. I mean, those stories have been mostly all debunked.

What I do know is that since Marvin's been gone a lot of character issue players are gone and so are most of the look at me guys. And they're spending money on winners in their prime, cutting fat, and drafting smart, high character guys.

Deductive reasoning says to look at the variables to see what has changed and what has stayed to determine cause and effect. Mike Brown is still there... Marvin's gone.... and look at all of the changes. Tough to still sit there and blame Mike Brown to me.

Is it low hanging fruit to point out the change to a 2 win team too? Who brings in the players? Again... Marvin Lewis didn't want Chris Henry back on the team, and he was one of the lesser guys with character issues. I don't remember Marvin pounding the table for Pacman. I remember him hounding guys like Burfict and Chad, and starting guys who were doing the right thing through the week (Geathers) over guys who weren't (Dunlap). Burfict couldn't keep himself in line in Oakland or at Arizona State either. Pacman's been in constant trouble before and after Cincinnati. Chris Henry died doing dumb shit away from the team. If anything the story of Marvin not having control is old. Hell... The worst kept secret in the NFL in 2017 was Joe Mixon was headed to Cincinnati outta college.

[PDub80]

(08-15-2020, 11:04 PM)jason Wrote: Is it low hanging fruit to point out the change to a 2 win team too? Who brings in the players? Again... Marvin Lewis didn't want Chris Henry back on the team, and he was one of the lesser guys with character issues. I don't remember Marvin pounding the table for Pacman. I remember him hounding guys like Burfict and Chad, and starting guys who were doing the right thing through the week (Geathers) over guys who weren't (Dunlap). Burfict couldn't keep himself in line in Oakland or at Arizona State either. Pacman's been in constant trouble before and after Cincinnati. Chris Henry died doing dumb shit away from the team. If anything the story of Marvin not having control is old. Hell... The worst kept secret in the NFL in 2017 was Joe Mixon was headed to Cincinnati outta college.

No, it's not low hanging fruit at all. These are all good talking points to ponder and fun to debate while being outside of the organization.

Marvin made excuses for Jones and Burfict constantly. And held back young up and comers in favor of old guard "trusted" players.

Personally, I don't care to be a moral cop as to what another person does outside of their job. I just don't care. They have to livenlive their lives, not me. However, those guys looked to Marvin as a father figure and Marvin sheltered them and made excuses for them constantly.

Chris Henry, by all accounts, had turned his life around. He hopped in a truck while arguing with his wife and her dumbass should have stopped. She didn't and killed him.

I don't see how any Bengal fan can be upset or banging on the ownership for the direction of the team. To me, it doesn't make sense. This is what a rebuilding change of direction looks like and they are killing it off the field. On the field remains to be seen, but anyone expecting a huge year last year was dreaming. The team and coaches are very young, but I agree with what they're doing 100%.... and that includes the ownership and front office.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-15-2020, 06:32 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: The game has changed for better and for worse, but I will always look upon the ‘05 season as the most exciting season since I have followed the team. ‘15 had talent, but I never got the feeling of confidence that I had in ‘05 when Carson was throwing to Chad Johnson.  I’m getting that confidence from the offensive side of the ball, maybe not this year, but this is going to be a legit team sooner or later.

Completely agree.  The Bengals had been deficient for so long before that team.  We had a brief run with Blake and Pickens that was at least fun to watch, but the rest of the team was blah.

Just add up a few of the things that are new to this year:

Joe F'n Burrow- Coming off the greatest single season in college football, and he did it in the SEC. 

DJ Reader- One of the best interior linemen next to Geno Atkins?  Yes, please.

Tee Higgins- A definite large catch-radius guy with great hands.  Can't wait to see him and Burrow grow together. 

AJ Green- One of the best Bengals of all time with something to prove.

Vonn Bell- A leader with a work ethic that is allergic to losing.  Improved SS play is something we have really needed for some time. 

Mackenzie Alexander- One of the highest rated slot corners in the NFL.

Trae Waynes-  May have holes in his game, but one of them is not tackling.

Jonah Williams-  Looks bigger and stronger than the highest ranked tackle in the 2019 draft.  Didn't rest, he got ready.

Fred Johnson-  Looked at least solid in a couple games at LT last year, will push for the starting job at RT.  Competition is good.

Xavier Sua-Filo- Cowboy fans said they were better when he was in there, and they are pretty good on the offensive line.

Logan Wilson/ADG/Bailey/Bynes- FOUR new additions, three instinctive, speedy rookies and one veteran from a division foe.  Arguably the biggest weakness on the Bengals for some time, now could actually be a position of strength. 

That is 10 distinct areas that were altered/improved heading in to the 2020 season, with Fred Johnson not officially being the 11th as he was here at the end of last year.  If we are going to add a few other optimistic items, let's not pretend that what Joe Mixon did the last eight games was a fluke.  He was on fire.  Credit some of the offensive line adjustments, but if we get Mixon a little more involved (and Gio?) in the passing game, he becomes that much larger a weapon.  

Oh, and did I mention Joe F'n Burrow?  How the hell can you NOT be excited about this season?  That was a hypothetical.  I know all about the dog that has been beat too much...

[Essex Johnson]

I don;t get too excited especially for the rookies.. way too many cant miss busts etc in the NFL past.. Even when i was most excited with the changes in 2011 I still was not too giddy until that team changed the culture of the Bengals. I am a bit more excited about the FA haul since they have a track record. Hopefully ZT can also improve as a head coach from first year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-15-2020, 06:32 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: The game has changed for better and for worse, but I will always look upon the ‘05 season as the most exciting season since I have followed the team. ‘15 had talent, but I never got the feeling of confidence that I had in ‘05 when Carson was throwing to Chad Johnson.  I’m getting that confidence from the offensive side of the ball, maybe not this year, but this is going to be a legit team sooner or later.

We will see, I had confidence in the 2015 team though cause they had a good Defense.

With this FA I could see us getting back to some relevance on that side of the ball again and even quicker than the Offense
cause we actually invested heavily on the Defensive side of the ball for proven vets. I see the Offense taking a bit longer to 
get up to speed with all the youth and the O-line trying to gel. But with Burrow anything is possible, dude is special.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-16-2020, 12:18 AM)PDub80 Wrote: No, it's not low hanging fruit at all. These are all good talking points to ponder and fun to debate while being outside of the organization.

Marvin made excuses for Jones and Burfict constantly. And held back young up and comers in favor of old guard "trusted" players.

Personally, I don't care to be a moral cop as to what another person does outside of their job. I just don't care. They have to livenlive their lives, not me. However, those guys looked to Marvin as a father figure and Marvin sheltered them and made excuses for them constantly.

Chris Henry, by all accounts, had turned his life around. He hopped in a truck while arguing with his wife and her dumbass should have stopped. She didn't and killed him.

I don't see how any Bengal fan can be upset or banging on the ownership for the direction of the team. To me, it doesn't make sense. This is what a rebuilding change of direction looks like and they are killing it off the field. On the field remains to be seen, but anyone expecting a huge year last year was dreaming. The team and coaches are very young, but I agree with what they're doing 100%.... and that includes the ownership and front office.

Yeah, cannot disagree with you PDub after this Offseason. Marv is gone thank God and his team is too that only won 2 games.

That was Marv's team man, now we get to see Taylor's with Burrow at the helm of the Offense.

Not going to judge the ownership or the FO after this Offseason, they did it right. Hella right.

[BURROWorBUST]

(08-16-2020, 11:36 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree.  The Bengals had been deficient for so long before that team.  We had a brief run with Blake and Pickens that was at least fun to watch, but the rest of the team was blah.

Just add up a few of the things that are new to this year:

Joe F'n Burrow- Coming off the greatest single season in college football, and he did it in the SEC. 

DJ Reader- One of the best interior linemen next to Geno Atkins?  Yes, please.

Tee Higgins- A definite large catch-radius guy with great hands.  Can't wait to see him and Burrow grow together. 

AJ Green- One of the best Bengals of all time with something to prove.

Vonn Bell- A leader with a work ethic that is allergic to losing.  Improved SS play is something we have really needed for some time. 

Mackenzie Alexander- One of the highest rated slot corners in the NFL.

Trae Waynes-  May have holes in his game, but one of them is not tackling.

Jonah Williams-  Looks bigger and stronger than the highest ranked tackle in the 2019 draft.  Didn't rest, he got ready.

Fred Johnson-  Looked at least solid in a couple games at LT last year, will push for the starting job at RT.  Competition is good.

Xavier Sua-Filo- Cowboy fans said they were better when he was in there, and they are pretty good on the offensive line.

Logan Wilson/ADG/Bailey/Bynes- FOUR new additions, three instinctive, speedy rookies and one veteran from a division foe.  Arguably the biggest weakness on the Bengals for some time, now could actually be a position of strength. 

That is 10 distinct areas that were altered/improved heading in to the 2020 season, with Fred Johnson not officially being the 11th as he was here at the end of last year.  If we are going to add a few other optimistic items, let's not pretend that what Joe Mixon did the last eight games was a fluke.  He was on fire.  Credit some of the offensive line adjustments, but if we get Mixon a little more involved (and Gio?) in the passing game, he becomes that much larger a weapon.  

Oh, and did I mention Joe F'n Burrow?  How the hell can you NOT be excited about this season?  That was a hypothetical.  I know all about the dog that has been beat too much...

HOF post. Thanks for justifying some optimism. 

At the end of 2019 (or maybe the middle of 2019, who knows?), I think Lou told Zac, Duke, Katie, and Mike that "I can't win with the talent level in this room."

To his credit, Mike opened up the checkbook. Plus, 4 of our 7 draft picks were on that side of the ball. 
Assuming we keep 24 defensive players and based on who I think will make the 53, 11 of the 24 guys on the defensive side of the ball will be new to the team.

This looks at numbers now and projected 53
5/9 CBs 3/6
7/14 DLine 3/8 Dlinemen 
6/8 LBs 4/6
1/5 S 1/4

Anyway you slice it, this is a very different unit. 

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2020, 10:14 PM)PDub80 Wrote: What I do know is that since Marvin's been gone a lot of character issue players are gone and so are most of the look at me guys. And they're spending money on winners in their prime, cutting fat, and drafting smart, high character guys.

Coach Turner is a very "low character" type signing.

Joe Mixon is a huge "look at me" attention *****.

Bobby Hart was a "locker room cancer" with the Giants.

EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE has these type of guys.  As long as they can produce on the field no one cares.  And no one gives a shit about "smart, high character" guys if they don't win.  Just ask Andy Dalton.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2020, 05:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That was Marv's team man

No.  That was Taylor's team.  Marvin was here 16 years and never sucked as bad as 2-14.

Marvin should have been gone after the '17 season.  He had to go.  I am praying that Taylor improves, but so far he looks worse than Marvin as a head coach.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2020, 12:18 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Chris Henry, by all accounts, had turned his life around. He hopped in a truck while arguing with his wife and her dumbass should have stopped. She didn't and killed him.

Chris Henry was 100% responsible for his death.  If someonme wants to drive away you have to let them go.  He was the dumbass for jumping in the back of a truck to try and stop her.

If he had jumped in front of a speeding car you would probably blame the driver for not stopping.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-18-2020, 02:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  That was Taylor's team.  Marvin was here 16 years and never sucked as bad as 2-14.

Marvin should have been gone after the '17 season.  He had to go.  I am praying that Taylor improves, but so far he looks worse than Marvin as a head coach.

Taylor had one Offseason, short Offseason and could not replace all those players that Marv put on his team.

It WAS Marv's team besides the little bit of FA's we brought in and the rookies.

Now Taylor has replaced Marv's players with his own and Lou's own. Now we can judge Taylor fairly.

[PDub80]

(08-18-2020, 02:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Coach Turner is a very "low character" type signing.

Joe Mixon is a huge "look at me" attention *****.

Bobby Hart was a "locker room cancer" with the Giants.

EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE has these type of guys.  As long as they can produce on the field no one cares.  And no one gives a shit about "smart, high character" guys if they don't win.  Just ask Andy Dalton.

In order order to make relevant points, if I reply to someone who quoted someone else I go back and read the whole chain of conversation to get the gist of the discussion before chiming in. Perhaps you should start practicing that, too. You are the perfect example of where society is at today: You only wish to be heard and have no interest in actually listening to anyone else. IMO, YOU, virtually exclusively, are why this board has been dying on the vine and losing participating members.

Before going further, YES, I understand all NFL teams have sketchy personnel somewhere in their ORG. I didn't say nor did I even infer that they didn't.

On to your "points", of which - even if you're right (spoiler alert: you're not), you're wrong.....

- The person I was replying to was blaming Mike Brown for bringing in low character guys. As a counterpoint, I was pointing out that a lot more high character guys have been brought in via FA or the draft since Marvin left and virtually NO questionable chars have even been worked out, let alone signed or drafted (so far). So, to solely blame Mike Brown and not mention Marvin (who had a huge influence in the org) for rough character signings/draft picks (issues from mostly 10+ years ago, BTW) doesn't 100% make sense given the new coaching staff's FAs & drafts.

He also, in reply to me, wanted to blame Mike Brown for the past several losing seasons. Which is fair as long as he also gets credit for the winning seasons as well. To ignore one and not the other is unfair and illogical.

- Here's where I directly address your list of a whopping 3 guys out of, what(?), over 100?... and 2 of which were brought in during Marvin's time. So.... only 1 guy you brought up was even relevant to the conversation. Regardless, your point is stupid (shocker), so I'll crap on all 3 of your examples. Good thing I'm not a lawyer in Butt-Hump, TN, or wherever you dwell. You'd starve.

- When Jim Turner was hired by the Bengals I googled the court case regarding his "issues" and read through every single string of txt message conversations and instances submitted in the case between Jonathan Martin & the NFL/Dolphins/Incognito/Turner. I spent a lot of time on it and came to the conclusion that the entire thing was BS by Martin, who has some deep personal issues. If you read through the entirety of that stuff, Martin comes across as a nut job for taking up the position that he was harassed as he alleged. Not even close.

As someone who grew up and spent over half of my life playing an extremely competitive and extremely stressful sport - coached by professional coaches from both NCAA D1 college, MLS coaches and GMs, semi-professional coaches, and Olympics Development coaches, I can understand when someone with a different background or coaching style conflicts with what you're used to. Or that a guy is crass, "old school", not PC, brutally honest, let's boys be boys and work stuff out between them, pushes buttons, etc etc. Because of his deep rooted, HIDDEN, mental issues Jonathan Martin came across as soft. That's not going to sit well with Jim Turner, who seemed to want to toughen the kid up mentally or, understandably, get him out of there.

If you've never been in those environments, I understand you clutching at your pearls over that stuff, but it happens all the time and players/coaches work it out. But, for some reason, in the case of Jim Turner, someone couldn't work it out. I wonder why???? Oh, wait! Here's why.....

FOR THE RECORD: Jonathan Martin, post NFL drama/career, was proven to have severe mental problems and was arrested for threatening to shoot up a school. He's not all there and it comes across very clearly when you read the txts submitted in that case vs what Martin alleged. So, you can keep calling Jim Turner "low character", but that doesn't hold much water given how things played out in the long run.

FOR THE RECORD: Richie Incognito only sent/left him nasty, threatening voice mails and txts AFTER Martin made his BS, LYING allegations against him, Turner, the Dolphins. If you read the txts, it's clear as day Martin is nuts.

Do I love everything about Jim Turner? Well, frankly, I don't care. The guys playing for him on the Bengals seem to like him just fine. So, to me, that's where the buck stops with that. Who cares about Texas A&M (who hired him TWICE, BTW)?

Zac Taylor also comes across as a super high character guy and he hired him after working with him previously. That's enough for me and should be enough for your salty, Marvin/Andy loving self.

- Joe Mixon was brought in during Marvin's time here, not the current coaching staff... which, as I pointed out earlier - had you been paying attention, was my compare and contrast in the conversation with the other guy who blamed Mike Brown for a "low character" org.

Regardless, Joe Mixon has been an outstanding, enthusiastic Bengal and an A+ pro off the field. Plus, he's an awesome player. For you to call him an "Attention *****" is weak, petty, and makes little sense... especially given the context of the discussion. 

- Bobby Heart is your only, possible saving grace point, but that depends on how sensitive you are and how you look at his resigning AFTER Taylor got here. Because, again - based on the discussion - Bobby Heart was signed while MARVIN was here and re-signed while Taylor was here. If he was an issue, I don't see this coaching staff or org resigning him..... WHICH WAS MY POINT TO THE GUY I WAS RESPONDING TO: THE BENGALS ARE CLEARLY ONLY LOOKING FOR HIGH CHARACTER GUYS SINCE TAYLOR GOT HERE. MARVIN LEFT AND THAT IS A MAJOR, SUPER OBVIOUS CHANGE. TO CONTINUE TO BLAME MIKE BROWN FOR THE LOW CHARACTER SIGNINGS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!

I don't care what Bobby Heart's political/religious views are, or his views on masks. Who freaking cares? I also don't care about your TMZ like report on rumors he was "a locker room cancer" on the Giants. Who... F'ing.... Cares about the Giants? If that's where we're at in judging the character of the Bengals locker room, they're basically perfect. To cry about a guy who was last in the Giants locker room 3 1/2 years a go is the most cucked up thing I've ever read on here. My goodness! Snuggles, the Charmin Bear thinks you're too soft.

[PDub80]

(08-18-2020, 03:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Chris Henry was 100% responsible for his death.  If someonme wants to drive away you have to let them go.  He was the dumbass for jumping in the back of a truck to try and stop her.

If he had jumped in front of a speeding car you would probably blame the driver for not stopping.

You're "a lawyer", but I went ahead and googled this for you. Straight copy and paste....

Negligent homicide is the killing of another person through gross negligence or without malice. It often includes death that is the result of the negligent operation of a motor vehicle, which includes the operation of a boat or snowmobile.




- He was dumb for jumping into the truck, yes. She was dumb for continuing to drive at speeds that flung him out of the truck and killed him. She said in interviews that he wasn't violently acting towards or threatening her, nor had he been. They were arguing and she flipped out and left. She wasn't running from him for fear of bodily harm nor were drugs or alcohol involved.


If someone I know jumped onto my car while I was driving it I would stop, regardless of if I were arguing with them or not. A lot of other options there, right? She chose the one that killed him.


BTW, your last comment is interesting, given that you're "a lawyer". If someone steps out in front of a moving vehicle than, YES, it is expected for the vehicle to try and stop. You can't just keep speeding through the human being.


You need to maybe revisit the concept of "100%".