Who would you rather have for all 16 games?

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-20-2020, 03:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What about even MORE recent 6 games for each and trends? TDs?

John Ross: 17/236/0
AJ Green: 30/475/2

Too far forward? How about the last 16 games.

John Ross: 46/637/8
AJ Green: 77/1079/9

Too far back?

.... Or do we need it not too far forward or too far back but JUUUUUUST enough that you can make this absurd attempt to turn a non-debate into a debate?



- - - - - - - - -
It's like some people never learned after the whole "Mohamed Sanu had 4 TD in his final 3 games as a rookie! Projected over 16 games that's 21 TD! And he was a rookie!"... and then 7 years later he's yet to ever score more than 5 TD in a year.

See the response I just calculated based on the last season both played and calculated YPR.  That seems like a pretty fair sample size.  

And why are you so F'n pissy about a discussion like this?  If you don't like it, scroll on.  It isn't like there is a ton to discuss and I found it interesting when I started looking at it.  You can't explain to people the impact Ross has when only Boyd was healthy to take advantage of it. but most of the stats show, when healthy, that Ross has a significantly higher YPR and TD rate.  

[impactplaya]

Ross is the only WR on the roster now other than AJ
Who is proven that he can take a short pass and Take it to the house
He's also the last WR to have 2 TD in a,single game.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-20-2020, 06:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: What a load of garbage.  

I agree with your sentiment of why you think Green will produce more,  but this is just garbage. 

John Ross has only had three games with more than three receptions during his entire career. Also, he has only had three games with more than 50 yards receiving. He’s had 17 games out 24 games played (out of a possible 48 games) with less than 3 receptions and 50 yards receiving.

So 71% of the time what you can typically expect from John Ross is 2 receptions for less than 50 yards receiving (when healthy.) But, we are ignoring Ross’ injury history during every season of his NFL career from Day 1.

[corpjet]

This thread is a joke right? When both are healthy how do you even compare the two?

The simple answer is AJ, Ross won't make it pass his rookie contract with the team, chalk him up to another Marvin draft bust.

[*bengalfan74*]

I didn't read the whole thread but it's AJ without question.

Ross, in my mind hasn't proven anything, yet.

[Housh]

I feel personally disrespected lol

Green is a game changer.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-21-2020, 10:21 AM)Housh Wrote: I feel personally disrespected lol

Green is a game changer.

I think Green WAS a game changer.  I am not sure he is now....

In the last two years, his biggest game was 7 receptions on 14 targets for 117 yards.  That was against the Dolphins in 2018.  That year, he had two 100 yard games.  He had three in 2017.  

I love AJ Green as he is humble and works his ass off, but I just think a lot of us remember what AJ was and think he is that player today when he hasn't shown that in nearly three years.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-21-2020, 10:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Green WAS a game changer.  I am not sure he is now....

In the last two years, his biggest game was 7 receptions on 14 targets for 117 yards.  That was against the Dolphins in 2018.  That year, he had two 100 yard games.  He had three in 2017.  

I love AJ Green as he is humble and works his ass off, but I just think a lot of us remember what AJ was and think he is that player today when he hasn't shown that in nearly three years.  

And yet Green still played in more games than Ross over the same time period.

[McC]

Why can't I have both?

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-21-2020, 10:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 1.) In the last two years, his biggest game was 7 receptions on 14 targets for 117 yards.  That was against the Dolphins in 2018.  2.) That year, he had two 100 yard games.  He had three in 2017.  

1.) I mean, he's only played in 9 out of possible 32 games over that span. I really don't how know you can use a two year window to establish any argument, when in one of those years he didn't play at all, and the other he missed half the season.

2.) So in 2018 he had two 100 yard games in 9 games played.  In 2017 he had three 100 yard games in in 16 games played.  I'm not sure what the point is here.

[Wes Mantooth]

I'm going to try to make this a simple statement. I believe SHXRacer tends to have more confidence in the front office and coaching staff than a lot of others here. He definitely has shown more than me.

Knowing or believing this to be true, I have one simple question:

Do you think if the coaching staff or front office, who work with both of these guys every single day, believed John Ross could match or exceed AJ Green's production that they would have tagged him at 17.5 mil?

Why would the Bengals pay AJ so much if, even when fully healthy, John Ross is a comparable or better talent moving forward?

Why would they not only tag AJ at obscene amount, this after paying Boyd a bundle last year, and draft Tee Higgins, if they believed Ross could establish himself as legitimate top tier receiver?

It makes no sense. They clearly don't have the biggest of faith in John Ross. And why would they? The numbers and results are plain as day.

If we can get production out of him then that's great. And of course I do think he has potential. But you really can't take him over anyone at this point.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-21-2020, 12:59 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And yet Green still played in more games than Ross over the same time period.

Remember durability wasn't the discussion here...both for 16 games

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-21-2020, 01:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm going to try to make this a simple statement.  I believe SHXRacer tends to have more confidence in the front office and coaching staff than a lot of others here.  He definitely has shown more than me.

Knowing or believing this to be true, I have one simple question:

Do you think if the coaching staff or front office, who work with both of these guys every single day, believed John Ross could match or exceed AJ Green's production that they would have tagged him at 17.5 mil?

Why would the Bengals pay AJ so much if, even when fully healthy, John Ross is a comparable or better talent moving forward?

Why would they not only tag AJ at obscene amount, this after paying Boyd a bundle last year, and draft Tee Higgins, if they believed Ross could establish himself as legitimate top tier receiver?

It makes no sense.  They clearly don't have the biggest of faith in John Ross.  And why would they?  The numbers and results are plain as day.  

If we can get production out of him then that's great.  And of course I do think he has potential.  But you really can't take him over anyone at this point.

Ironic as I think I probably second guess the coaching decisions as much if not more than anyone...especially Marv, but I am giving ZT a chance with this year's roster.  

Every single point you make above is valid.  Extremely valid.  And also completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make with this thread.  I think everyone remembers what AJ has done, but he is 32 years old and has had a decline in productivity....and not just due to injuries.  Now, saying that, I still believe AJ is more Tim Brown than (insert name of WR that fell off a cliff in productivity at age 32...I am sure there are tons) but it is still a crapshoot.  Contrast that to everyone that expects so little and seems to have so much disdain for Ross.  A guy that has barely flashed, but hasn't had near the opportunities yet, either.  

I thought it would be an interesting (and spirited) discussion (assbags notwithstanding) about who would actually produce more this year if both played all 16 games.  I tried to show trends and discuss how AJ has began to have a significant number of snaps out of the slot, as they are trying to make it easier for him to get open, but everyone seems to have a very high opinion of AJ and a very low opinion of Ross.  And that is fine!  It doesn't hurt my feelings if people don't agree with me.  I was merely trying to show why I think Ross could end up being a more important part of the offense and how his outside presence will be a key factor.  

It wasn't insulting to AJ Green to ask it.  It wasn't an insult to anyone's intelligence here to discuss it.  It was a discussion that proved what I already believed and that is that people think too highly of Green and not highly enough of Ross, IMHO.  Not a problem.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-21-2020, 06:37 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Remember durability wasn't the discussion here...both for 16 games

You remember it.

(08-21-2020, 10:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Green WAS a game changer.  I am not sure he is now....

In the last two years, his biggest game was 7 receptions on 14 targets for 117 yards.  That was against the Dolphins in 2018.  That year, he had two 100 yard games.  He had three in 2017.  

I love AJ Green as he is humble and works his ass off, but I just think a lot of us remember what AJ was and think he is that player today when he hasn't shown that in nearly three years.  

The reason Green hasn’t shown that in nearly three years is because of injury, aka durability. And yet he still played more games than Ross and was more productive than Ross. You don’t get to ignore Ross’s lack of durability while simultaneously using durability to claim Green isn’t the player he once was because you haven’t seen it because of . . . durability.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2020, 02:31 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And why does he have a better resume?  Because he is a better WR over a longer period of time at the highest level of competition. Turf toe and ruptured ligaments aren’t age related injuries. So if they’re both out there for 16 games I’m gonna to pick the guy he has proven he can produce year after year rather than the WR that had two good games in 3 years versus back ups during garbage time.

To be fair Ross had a great game against the Seahawks last year and it wasn't against backups or in garbage time.

He almost won that game for us.

[*jason*]

(08-21-2020, 07:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: To be fair Ross had a great game against the Seahawks last year and it wasn't against backups or in garbage time.

He almost won that game for us.

He put up really good numbers that game. I'm not sure what the 2nd good game of his career that breech referenced was, but AJ actually has won us games.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-21-2020, 08:34 AM)corpjet Wrote: This thread is a joke right? When both are healthy how do you even compare the two?

The simple answer is AJ, Ross won't make it pass his rookie contract with the team, chalk him up to another Marvin draft bust.

Can’t really blame Marvin if the rumors about him not wanting Ross were true.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-21-2020, 10:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Green WAS a game changer.  I am not sure he is now....

In the last two years, his biggest game was 7 receptions on 14 targets for 117 yards.  That was against the Dolphins in 2018.  That year, he had two 100 yard games.  He had three in 2017.  

I love AJ Green as he is humble and works his ass off, but I just think a lot of us remember what AJ was and think he is that player today when he hasn't shown that in nearly three years.  

AJ had a 3 TD game in primetime against Baltimore in 2018. That’s the definition of a game changer.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-21-2020, 07:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You remember it.

The reason Green hasn’t shown that in nearly three years is because of injury, aka durability. And yet he still played more games than Ross and was more productive than Ross. You don’t get to ignore Ross’s lack of durability while simultaneously using durability to claim Green isn’t the player he once was because you haven’t seen it because of . . . durability.

I did not say Green wasn't the same player because of his injuries.  I described him not having the same performances as earlier in his career when he was healthy now.  He is 32 years old and far more NFL WRs have dropped off here than even stayed the course, let alone captured some of their earlier magic.  

His injuries may have affected his speed, ability to separate, etc.  We won't know until we see him.  But it isn't durability.  Sorry.  Again, I removed that from this discussion.  It is the player he is today vs. the player Ross is today.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-21-2020, 10:40 PM)jason Wrote: He put up really good numbers that game. I'm not sure what the 2nd good game of his career that breech referenced was, but AJ actually has won us games.

Versus 49ers 4 receptions, 112 yards, 1 TD the week after Seattle.

He had one solid game versus Miami 6 receptions for 84 yards and 0 TDs.

Other than those three games, he has only had more than 50 yards receiving once. Or four total games with more than 50 yards receiving in his career.

Four. Out of 24.