Paul Brown stadium deal ending in 2026- will the Bengals stay

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 11:36 AM)Yojimbo Wrote:  I live near it and the protest going on at night aren’t even a topic here in Oregon,

I don't think I've ever seen a bigger load of bs.

[Yojimbo]

(08-20-2020, 11:46 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a bigger load of b.s.

Then you're bad at detecting b.s. Do you live here in Oregon? People are completely going about their normal business, outside of covid restrictions, the protests just aren't affecting normal life here, at least during the day. The streets can be dangerous at night, but again, what big city is completely safe at night? Portland is and has always been an activist city, it's just part of the culture here. Cincinnati just had 14 shootings and 4 deaths last weekend. Did everybody's life change? Should all businesses and sports teams move out of Cincinnati?

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 11:36 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Every big city has crime and violence. It’s the biproduct of too many people living too close together competing for too few resources.

Yup, what we're seeing in Portland right now is just like every other big city.  Just your typical crime and violence.

Tell that to the jeweler downtown whose store was looted for over a million dollars worth of inventory.  Tell that to the 2,100 employee insurance company that is reporting 20 million dollars in losses, and recently had to relocate their offices to outside the city.  Tell that to all the small business owners whose stores are covered in plywood and can't operate their businesses.

What you're seeing in Portland is pure desctruction.  Physically and economically.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2020, 11:45 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The economic impact of those "protests" will plague that city for years to come.  Businesses, both big and small, are already fleeing the city.  And if cooperations that are headquarted there choose to pick up and move then that's going to be the death nail to the city's economy.

Not to mention, Portland is not unlike many places in CA right now.  Homelessness and rampant drug use are not an uncommon site to see.

The city has been trending down for quite some time.  And the last 90 days are doing irreparable harm.

It's most certainly a shithole from this point moving forward.

OK.

Well, all I cared about when I went there were the diverse food, the weather, Mt Hood, and the breweries, which all were very nice.
Homelessness was abundant there.

If businesses are fleeing, I can see not wanting to put a NFL team there. However, when I was there, I saw most/all of the buildings occupied with businesses. I was not aware businesses were fleeing.

[Yojimbo]

(08-20-2020, 11:54 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Yup, what we're seeing in Portland right now is just like every other big city.  Just your typical crime and violence.

Tell that to the jeweler downtown whose store was looted for over a million dollars worth of inventory.  Tell that to the 2,100 employee insurance company that is reporting 20 million dollars in losses, and recently had to relocate their offices to outside the city.  Tell that to all the small business owners whose stores are covered in plywood and can't operate their businesses.

What you're seeing in Portland is pure desctruction.  Physically and economically.

Again, that's not affecting day to day life here. There's stuff like that going on all over the country and all over the world. Portland is not special just because it's being used as a political football right now. You're just reading about what's going on here, I'm living it. Who do you think has a better insight to how local people and businesses are handling this? What's currently hurting business waaaaay more than protests are restrictions due to the pandemic.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 11:56 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Again, that's not affecting day to day life here.

It most certainly is for the businesses downtown. 

I don't need to live there to understand the economic impact of fleeing businesses, shuttered business, and the millions and millions of dollars of property damage. 

The city of Portland is going to faced with a multitude of expenses when this all said and done.  And even more importantly, a tremendous loss of tax revenue.

I guess we can agree to disagree. But I suggest we revist this conversation 1 year from now. I'll be curious to see what they city budget looks like and if the downtown area is as vibrant and profitable as it once was. 

[Yojimbo]

(08-20-2020, 12:10 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It most certainly is for the businesses downtown. 

I don't need to live there to understand the economic impact of fleeing businesses, shuttered business, and the millions and millions of dollars of property damage. 

The city of Portland is going to faced with a multitude of expenses when this all said and done.  And even more importantly, a tremendous loss of tax revenue.

I guess we can agree to disagree. But I suggest we revist this conversation 1 year from now. I'll be curious to see what they city budget looks like and if the downtown area is as vibrant and profitable as it once was. 

That will depend more on the current state of the covid pandemic than on these protests.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 12:15 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: That will depend more on the current state of the covid pandemic than on these protests.

Businesses aren't fleeing the area because of Covid.  Stores aren't covered in plywood because of Covid.  Contrary to popular belief, covid doesn't cause property damage.

All economies will be hurt because of Covid.  So if Portland's recovery mirrors the rest of the country, then I guess we can agree that the "protests" had little impact.  But if they're faced with greater challenges, and business lost, well then that's a different story.

[*PhilHos*]

It'll be hard to move the 6 time Super Bowl Champion Cincinnati Bengals out of Cincinnati in 2026, IMO.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-20-2020, 12:01 AM)J24 Wrote: PBS doesn't need an extensive rebuild though like the Bills stadium.  

Portland has been mentioned as a possible move.. have you been to Salt Lake lately ?? going non mormon and they already have a NBA team... Chicago is the 3rd largest city with that market they could if they wanted... Columbus has also been mentioned as possible expansion.. it is way more than just OSU... I really could see Omaha though.. my bet though would probably be San Antonio or Austin

[Essex Johnson]

(08-20-2020, 11:53 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Then you're bad at detecting b.s. Do you live here in Oregon? People are completely going about their normal business, outside of covid restrictions, the protests just aren't affecting normal life here, at least during the day. The streets can be dangerous at night, but again, what big city is completely safe at night? Portland is and has always been an activist city, it's just part of the culture here. Cincinnati just had 14 shootings and 4 deaths last weekend. Did everybody's life change? Should all businesses and sports teams move out of Cincinnati?

I have a friend in Portland  and he said the opposite.... 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2020, 12:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Portland has been mentioned as a possible move.. have you been to Salt Lake lately ?? going non mormon and they already have a NBA team... Chicago is the 3rd largest city with that market they could if they wanted... Columbus has also been mentioned as possible expansion.. it is way more than just OSU... I really could see Omaha though.. my bet though would probably be San Antonio or Austin

SLC is definitely a booming city. A good amount of tech companies are there now.

I doubt Columbus would do well with a team. And it's not because of OSU, but because ~60% of the football fans there are Browns fans, 25% Steelers fans (east side of town) and remaining 15% are Bengals fans. Or at least it seemed that way when I lived there 2008-2018.
If the Browns fans stuck by that crappy team for 25 years now when they've been abysmal, I doubt they'd switch their allegiance to a Columbus team just because they were local.

[Whatever]

(08-20-2020, 12:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: SLC is definitely a booming city. A good amount of tech companies are there now.

I doubt Columbus would do well with a team. And it's not because of OSU, but because ~60% of the football fans there are Browns fans, 25% Steelers fans (east side of town) and remaining 15% are Bengals fans. Or at least it seemed that way when I lived there 2008-2018.
If the Browns fans stuck by that crappy team for 25 years now when they've been abysmal, I doubt they'd switch their allegiance to a Columbus team just because they were local.

Columbus is a very bandwagon town when it comes to pro sports. While the majority is nominally Browns fans, you're hard pressed to see Browns gear in public past week 3-4 most years. They certainly aren't "ride or die" fans.  Bring a winner and they'll likely switch, especially with Burrow at QB.  

All inroads into Columbus would appear to be closed, though.  OSU would fight tooth and nail to block it, which kills it dead right there, but on top of that, Haslam bought the Crew a little while back.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-20-2020, 01:28 PM)Whatever Wrote: Columbus is a very bandwagon town when it comes to pro sports. While the majority is nominally Browns fans, you're hard pressed to see Browns gear in public past week 3-4 most years. They certainly aren't "ride or die" fans.  Bring a winner and they'll likely switch, especially with Burrow at QB.  

All inroads into Columbus would appear to be closed, though.  OSU would fight tooth and nail to block it, which kills it dead right there, but on top of that, Haslam bought the Crew a little while back.

I disagree on bolded.

Even when the Bengals were making playoffs 5 years in a row and started 8-0 in 2015, I still saw way more Browns fans than Bengals fans.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree on bolded.

Even when the Bengals were making playoffs 5 years in a row and started 8-0 in 2015, I still saw way more Browns fans than Bengals fans.

Yeah, way more Browns fans in Columbus. I’ve noticed that even at hockey games up there. Never really saw much Bengals gear.

[samhain]

It largely depends on the Bengals performance on the field over the next half-decade. Crappy teams are easy to move. There's no bandwagon fan base pumping money in or attending games, and it's easy to justify with scenes of empty seats in stadiums. The team will almost certainly want a new stadium, or at the very least some incredibly expensive upgrades. Local politicians will in no way be motivated to fund it with public money if the voters don't care about the team being there anyway.

On the other hand, if they're contending for titles and Burrow is a bona-fide star and nationally relevant ambassador for the city, it will be tougher for them not to pony up some coin. People would be irate to see the chosen one shipped out of town because of perceived politics.

There's a lot on Burrow's shoulders when it comes to this franchise. His tenure here will go a long way in determining the future of this team. He'll be in his prime when the deal is up if he's successful. That's not an aging Phillip Rivers or average David Carr. It's not whoever the hell St Louis had before they bolted for LA.

Bigger markets can build stadiums, but that doesn't always equate to fan interest or success. LA and Vegas have a lot more going on that football, and they'll be every bit as dead on Sunday as any town if those teams suck. Why would you pay to see a shitty football team when there's so much more to do? If the Bengals are decent, they're the only game in town here. There's not a ton to detract from them being the main draw that time of year.

[Sled21]

(08-20-2020, 10:29 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Retractable roof, then.

The city's gone through painstaking efforts to revitalize the riverfront area.  If/when we get a new stadium here, it would be nice if it could work as a revenue generator for the city - especially if we're ponying up for a good chunk of financing.  

An enclosed stadium allows you to bring in concerts and shows year-round.  Nobody's gonna want to come here and play outside in 10 degree weather - so a third of the calendar year is shot.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I would be all for a retractable roof. Increased comfort for fans and players, better conditions for the kickers, increased noise advantage for the home team.... just pointing out that all 4 of the AFCN teams play in open air stadiums. While Indy is nice, I hope if Cincy builds one, they do not make it look like a warehouse like Indy does.

[QueenCity]

I was just in Portland last month for vacation. The place is a shit hole.

Homeless people are just camping out downtown Portland. Trash is EVERYWHERE.

I thought Portland would of been one of my favorite cities just by the photos but actually going their for the first time... I would not recommend.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-20-2020, 04:51 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I was just in Portland last month for vacation. The place is a shit hole.

Homeless people are just camping out downtown Portland. Trash is EVERYWHERE.

I thought Portland would of been one of my favorite cities just by the photos but actually going their for the first time... I would not recommend.

You constantly hear this about San Francisco and when we went there for the first time last year I found a lot of that stuff to be overblown. There’s definitely not shit all over the streets and sidewalks, and the homeless all congregate in certain areas (mostly in the Tenderloin neighborhood) It’s not like they’re all over the place. At least in my experience.

SF and Vancouver are probably the two most beautiful cities I’ve ever been to. Vancouver also has a homeless issue, but again, it’s all pretty much one area (East Hastings). We ventured into that area looking for a brewery and it was pretty sketchy.

I think it’s probably true just about anywhere you have to know where to go and where to avoid.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-20-2020, 05:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s definitely not shit all over the streets and sidewalks, and the homeless all congregate in certain areas (mostly in the Tenderloin neighborhood)

There's apparently enough of it that the city had to set aside a near million dollar budget for a "poop patrol", whose sole responsibility is cleaning up feces. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-poop-patrol-employees-make-184000-a-year-2018-8

The full budget for the initiative, $830,977, signifies a concerted effort to address the city's mounting feces problem, which has resulted in more than 14,500 calls to 311, the city's non-emergency-services line, since the beginning of the year, the Chronicle previously reported.


The article states that "nearly half" of the homeless population in the city congragreates in the area you speak. So you're right, it's sound like the biggest concentration is there. But that means there's still a lot of others roaming around.