RIP Brenneman's Career.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2020, 11:55 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Oh.. and to anyone calling what he said "hate speech".. please read a book. Hitler was hate speech, he yelled to exterminate those who were different. 

Using a slur is a far cry from true hate.

Using a slur is the very definition of hate speech.  How can you say that his comment was not meant to be an insult to the city?

Stop acting like everyone uses those words.  They don't.  The people who can't stop themselves from using those words as insults have a problem.  It is that simple.

[fredtoast]

It may seem that I ma coming off as "holier-than-thou" in this thread, but I am not really an extremist on this issue. I am older than most of you and I grew up using those words. I understand that when some people call something "gay" that does not mean they hate gay people. I think it is stupid but I understand that they are just using the term as an adjective to describe something they think is silly or not "manly". If Brenneman had said that the teams uniforms look gay I would say he needs some punishment and sensitivity training, but I would not say it should end his career.

But calling a city the *** capital of the country is WAY over the line. It is mean and blatently homophobic.

[McC]

If people had any real sense and were truly enlightened, they would stop going ape shit over mere words and thereby render them powerless. But that would make too much sense and would cut down on things to get "morally outraged" about on social media and goodness knows, we can't have that. Without righteous indignation, we might have to actually consider what tools they're trying to make us all become.

I'm so glad I got to live most of my life before people lost their ***** minds.

Didn't everybody's mother tell them--"sticks and stones..."

[*bfine32*]

As anyone can tell by my numerous PnR suspension; I'm conservative. WTS, Brennaman f'ed up and deserves whatever punishment the network(s) deem necessary. If he's talented enough someone will bring him back, we see it all the time. My avatar is a perfect example.

[CJD]

This is a pretty accurate summary of my feelings on it:
https://www.redreporter.com/2020/8/20/21377123/thom-brennaman-suspended-reds-baseball-firethombrennaman

Quote:All that’s to say that I feel like I know Thom Brennaman pretty well. I obviously don’t know his heart of hearts, but you can learn quite a lot about somebody’s heart of hearts by watching how they present themselves. And over the years Thom has proven to be generally skeptical of intelligence, suffocatingly pompous, and an insufferable nag. It seems like he believes he has earnestly reflected on himself and his life and has concluded that it is his determination, hard work, and talent that have earned him his many legitimately impressive successes. He believes he is a man in good standing with his community, and he likely sees himself as a leader. He is a man of faith, after all. Those were the words he chose to describe himself in opening his bizarre on-air apology.


This is not a picture of an honest Christian man apologizing for a grievous injury caused, it is of a frightened failson who knows he has disappointed his father beyond redemption by breaking the #1 family rule: never get caught.

Listening to his apology, you can tell his anxiety is genuine. He sure is worried he may never wear the headset again. He apologizes to his bosses, the people who sign his paycheck, and “anyone (he) may have offended.” You know a good way to tell if an apology is genuine or not? On what is the apology focused? Thom’s apology is all about him. How sorry he is, how good of a person he is, how he hopes he has some friends out there who will back him up. And IF anybody out there is offended, well, yeah, he’s sorry to you, too.

He needs you to understand: that is not who he is. It never has been.

Knowing Thom as well as I do, I know that isn’t true.

And knowing genuine people of faith (I can’t claim honestly to be one myself), I know how bitter and cynical it is of him to use it as a shield. Christianity is a faith dedicated to the tenets of peace, kindness, mercy, and care. It is not for you protect yourself from the consequences of your actions.

And listening to the offending comment, you can feel the acidic curl in his lip when he says the word. This is a man well-practiced with the word. You can tell from the ease with which he says it that he has said it numerous times and likely with some regularity. He clearly enjoys saying it. It is, indeed, exactly the kind of man he is.

And so it is likely now that Thom Brennaman has called his last baseball game. And knowing him as I do, I’m filled with the giddy hum of a bright new summer morning. You see, I’ve spent 15 years sharing baseball with this man. His one job, the one job he has ever trained for, the job he was given because it is the job his father had, was to talk to me about Reds baseball. And just my luck there weren’t a whole lot of alternatives for me. He has always been bad at his job and he has never deserved any of the professional blessings he has so abundantly received.

He made one of my favorite things in the world less enjoyable. And in a perfectly just world, THAT is why he should have been dragged out of the booth mid-game a long, long time ago.

But I’m not bitter about that. The poetic justice of Thom Brennaman getting cancelled for dropping a slur on a hot mic is the sweetest of metes.

F*** you, Thom. I hope to neither see you or hear from you again.

[fredtoast]

(08-21-2020, 01:01 PM)McC Wrote: If people had any real sense and were truly enlightened, they would stop going ape shit over mere words and thereby render them powerless.  But that would make too much sense and would cut down on things to get "morally outraged" about on social media and goodness knows, we can't have that.  Without righteous indignation, we might have to actually consider what tools they're trying to make us all become.

I'm so glad I got to live most of my life before people lost their ***** minds.

Didn't everybody's mother tell them--"sticks and stones..."

I don't think Hitler ever personally shot a Jew or pushed one into a gas chamber, so I am sure you have no problems with any of the speeches he made, right?

Words are the single biggest tool used to spread hatred.  To claim that they have no effect is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

You lived most of your life during a period where straight white men did not have to worry about spreading hatred with their words.  I am glad you enjoyed it.  I am also pleased to see how much it pisses you off that that era has come to an end.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-21-2020, 02:03 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is a pretty accurate summary of my feelings on it:
https://www.redreporter.com/2020/8/20/21377123/thom-brennaman-suspended-reds-baseball-firethombrennaman

This is one of the most pretentious things I think I've ever read.  What I'm basing this off of has little to nothing to do with the actions of Thom Brenneman.

Good lord, I hope those guys don't get paid at Reds Reporter.

[McC]

(08-21-2020, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think Hitler ever personally shot a Jew or pushed one into a gas chamber, so I am sure you have no problems with any of the speeches he made, right?

Words are the single biggest tool used to spread hatred.  To claim that they have no effect is the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

You lived most of your life during a period where straight white men did not have to worry about spreading hatred with their words.  I am glad you enjoyed it.  I am also pleased to see how much it pisses you off that that era has come to an end.

There's a helluva lot less actual evolving going on than there is fake PC.  People don't feel any differently.  They just pretend to out of fear of being ostracized.  If you think all this pc is real, then you're about as naive as it gets.

I never once condoned what he said.  He was as stupid as it gets.  In today's world, where everyone has deemed themselves worthy of judging, one must never forget to keep up the facade of correctness.   No one has to change how they feel.  They just have to watch what they say. 

It's not a cancel culture.  It's a minimum culture.  We'll just post shit on social media and think we've done something.  We'll line up to do the bare minimum, the least we can do.   Nothing actually improves.   

People are still shit, just like they always were.  Now, the wise ones are better at hiding their true feelings than the stupid ones. 

And I want to re-emphasize the ridiculousness of being so easily affected by such inanimate nothings as words and emphasize just how little I give a shit what a guy like you has to say, Fred.

Life must be a very intimidating place for those who are delicate enough to be crushed by a stranger's words.   I thought people learned that in elementary school.

But this is a world where people think they can kneel for a minute and a half and decide they have accomplished something big or put little catch phrases on the backs of jerseys and congratulate themselves for making the world better, where a problem can be talked away with platitudes or that the hearts of  men can be changed with peer pressure. 

And we'll all just sit around with our heads and our ears and eyes on a swivel to catch somebody doing something wrong and we'll pat ourselves on the back and pretend we did something and congratulate each other on how enlightened we are.

[Murdock2420]

(08-21-2020, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Using a slur is the very definition of hate speech.  How can you say that his comment was not meant to be an insult to the city?

Stop acting like everyone uses those words.  They don't.  The people who can't stop themselves from using those words as insults have a problem.  It is that simple.

Using a slur when you are talking to friends/co-workers "off air" because he thought the mic was off versus working people into a fever to kill those who are different?

Seriously Fred, you don't see the huge difference here?

The Klan, is hate speech, they want to hurt and kill people who are different. Hitler wanted to kill people. Thom, clearly doesn't like gay people... oh well... he didn't come out and say they shouldn't be alive, and they need to be killed.

Hell, maybe he dislikes them due to a religious belief, maybe it's because he is a sportscaster surrounded by jocks who have that "manly code" and use slurs all the time, or maybe he doesn't think it, and said it to try and be funny and fit in.

No one knows why he said it, but it once again... is just a word. Not a rally, not trying to hurt anyone or strike people down.

It's funny to me, the "cancel culture" and "woke" people are starting to be more like the historical groups they hate. If you think differently then them, you shouldn't be allowed to work, provide for your family or even exist.... that type of speech sounds kinda familiar... hmmmm when did I remember hearing this type of talk.... 

Also, let me state this once again. I disagree with the use of the slur, I disagree with discrimination, but to crucify the guy over a word is just pathetic.

A month suspension without pay is more then enough here.

[Murdock2420]

(08-21-2020, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Using a slur is the very definition of hate speech.  How can you say that his comment was not meant to be an insult to the city?

Stop acting like everyone uses those words.  They don't.  The people who can't stop themselves from using those words as insults have a problem.  It is that simple.

(08-21-2020, 12:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It may seem that I ma coming off as "holier-than-thou" in this thread, but I am not really an extremist on this issue.  I am older than most of you and I grew up using those words.  I understand that when some people call something "gay" that does not mean they hate gay people.  I think it is stupid but I understand that they are just using the term as an adjective to describe something they think is silly or not "manly".  If Brenneman had said that the teams uniforms look gay I would say he needs some punishment and sensitivity training, but I would not say it should end his career.

But calling a city the *** capital of the country is WAY over the line.  It is mean and blatently homophobic.

So you are saying you have a problem... got it.

[McC]

(08-21-2020, 07:15 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Using a slur when you are talking to friends/co-workers "off air" because he thought the mic was off versus working people into a fever to kill those who are different?

Seriously Fred, you don't see the huge difference here?

The Klan, is hate speech, they want to hurt and kill people who are different. Hitler wanted to kill people. Thom, clearly doesn't like gay people... oh well... he didn't come out and say they shouldn't be alive, and they need to be killed.

Hell, maybe he dislikes them due to a religious belief, maybe it's because he is a sportscaster surrounded by jocks who have that "manly code" and use slurs all the time, or maybe he doesn't think it, and said it to try and be funny and fit in.

No one knows why he said it, but it once again... is just a word. Not a rally, not trying to hurt anyone or strike people down.

It's funny to me, the "cancel culture" and "woke" people are starting to be more like the historical groups they hate. If you think differently then them, you shouldn't be allowed to work, provide for your family or even exist.... that type of speech sounds kinda familiar... hmmmm when did I remember hearing this type of talk.... 

Also, let me state this once again. I disagree with the use of the slur, I disagree with discrimination, but to crucify the guy over a word is just pathetic.

A month suspension without pay is more then enough here.

There's some group out there that wants the Reds, Fox Sports and even MLB to be punished over it too.    Utter madness.  Funny how intolerant the ones demanding tolerance keep showing themselves to be.

[CJD]

(08-22-2020, 04:09 PM)McC Wrote: There's some group out there that wants the Reds, Fox Sports and even MLB to be punished over it too.    Utter madness.  Funny how intolerant the ones demanding tolerance keep showing themselves to be.

Referencing the Paradox of Tolerance with the implication that it's hypocritical to not be tolerant of intolerance is not a good argument. 

[*jason*]

Some of you are so funny. This isn't about PC or hate speech or sticks and stones. It's about right and wrong. What he said on air is wrong. It's that simple. Do I have a right to push up on your wife, daughter, or mother at work? Sticks and stones... Am I right? Can I call her a ****? It's just words. It's obviously in decay, but we live in a society, and we're not supposed to treat each other or behave that way. Thom's life isn't over... He can go get a different ***** job, just like the rest of us do when we get canned at the previous one.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-22-2020, 11:10 PM)jason Wrote: Some of you are so funny. This isn't about PC or hate speech or sticks and stones. It's about right and wrong. What he said on air is wrong. It's that simple. Do I have a right to push up on your wife, daughter, or mother at work? Sticks and stones... Am I right? Can I call her a ****? It's just words. It's obviously in decay, but we live in a society, and we're not supposed to treat each other or behave that way. Thom's life isn't over... He can go get a different ***** job, just like the rest of us do when we get canned at the previous one.

Yep. Guy is worth a couple million dollars. His life is definitely not over. He’ll just have to do something else for a living.

[guyofthetiger]

I am a Christian and people calling us bigots is offensive to my faith. Wait, you CAN offend Christians but no other group and get away with it. The Bible says you are to forgive someone seventy times seventy times. I guess there are many people ignorant of the Bible.

[Murdock2420]

(08-22-2020, 04:09 PM)McC Wrote: There's some group out there that wants the Reds, Fox Sports and even MLB to be punished over it too.    Utter madness.  Funny how intolerant the ones demanding tolerance keep showing themselves to be.

Yup, if it didn't just drive me crazy that the world bends over backwards for this cry-baby groups, I'd be laughing at the insanity.


Side note, did this conversation cause Fred to finally snap and get himself banned?

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-22-2020, 11:10 PM)jason Wrote: Some of you are so funny. This isn't about PC or hate speech or sticks and stones. It's about right and wrong. What he said on air is wrong. It's that simple. Do I have a right to push up on your wife, daughter, or mother at work? Sticks and stones... Am I right? Can I call her a ****? It's just words. It's obviously in decay, but we live in a society, and we're not supposed to treat each other or behave that way. Thom's life isn't over... He can go get a different ***** job, just like the rest of us do when we get canned at the previous one.

Exactly. If I was within earshot of HR or maybe a couple of my managers and said what he said good chance I would be fired. If I broadcast it to the world with company equipment on company time to all of our customers... I would absolutely be fired.

I couldn’t stand him as an announcers so I am rooting for him to get shit canned.

[*jason*]

(08-23-2020, 12:33 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I am a Christian and people calling us bigots is offensive to my faith. Wait, you CAN offend Christians but no other group and get away with it. The Bible says you are to forgive someone seventy times seventy times. I guess there are many people ignorant of the Bible.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think Christianity and bigotry go hand in hand. If someone is a bigot, and happens to call himself a Christian, one has nothing to do with the other... But Jesus didn't teach bigotry, so that person needs to brush up on that Bible.

[*bfine32*]

(08-23-2020, 10:27 AM)jason Wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I don't think Christianity and bigotry go hand in hand. If someone is a bigot, and happens to call himself a Christian, one has nothing to do with the other... But Jesus didn't teach bigotry, so that person needs to brush up on that Bible.

The issue I have is folks "condemning" Thom by stating he's not a Christian. Those are folks that need to brush up IMO. Something to do with "turn the other cheek"

[Sled21]

(08-20-2020, 08:34 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: What made it worse is he felt the need to talk about Moustakis HR in the middle of his apology also the fact that the LBTQ community came last up in his apology. I'm roughly same age as Eminem and that word was common place for my generation. That excuse doesn't apply to Thom he was generation before me. If Michael Richards can be forgiven so should Thom though.

Oh youngster, I can tell you that word was in widespread usage long before your generation. I'm 60, and can remember it being used quite frequently in grade school.