Auden Tate building on from last year

[*bfine32*]

(08-28-2020, 08:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never claimed that I have the ability to tell which player made the mistake.

We don't need to watch any film to tell that.

(08-28-2020, 09:16 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's one for the post HOF  

15ish years of posts destroyed with one admission.

[*Nately120*]

(08-28-2020, 08:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Same old same old.

Is it really "tearing a player down" to disagree with a claim that he is an "unstoppable red zone threat" considering he has like 1 career td?  Or that he "catches everything" when he has a horrible catch percentage.  Or that it was all the QBs fault when other Bengal receivers were able to catch a lot higher percentage of passes.

I have no problem with tate making the rioster as depth.  I just disagree with the people who claim he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

All goofing aside, this is how I feel.  Auden Tate has stepped up and shown that he's willing to put in effort when his number is called mostly due to injury, but as you said for someone who is unstoppable and catches everything the evidence doesn't back up the narrative.

Auden Tate is a decent 7th round WR who can get stuff done sometimes.  Not the hottest take, but he does what he can.

[fredtoast]

(08-28-2020, 09:16 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's one for the post HOF  

(08-28-2020, 10:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 15ish years of posts destroyed with one admission.

Not sure what you guys are talking about.  I have been pretty consistent with this position over the years.  I have argued that it is difficult to grade offensive linemen without knowing exactly what their assignment is on every play.  I have argued that it is difficult to judge which DB messed up in coverage when we don't know what their individual assignment and responsibility was.  Now I am saying it is hard to judge if a throw was off target because of poor timing/route running by the receiver or if the QB messed up.

When I talk about receivers "adjusting their routes" I am not talking about different options for entirely different routes based on the coverage.  Instead I am talking about receivers running a drag pattern more shallow because the LBs don't drop as deep.  Or a receiver simply slowing down to sit in a soft spot in one coverage.  When i ask how we can tell if the receiver made the wrong adjustment all I get is "watch the film".  Well when i watch the film I can't see any way of telling if the receiver made an improper adjustment or if the QB made a bad pass.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-28-2020, 10:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Comments like this

About 99% of Nately’s posts are made for comical effect, but nice try.

[impactplaya]

For the record most WRs taken at the bottom of RD 7 usually dont make NFL rosters. There. Are exceptions.
But for a, 7th RD WR to make a roster he has to a certain skillset that is unique and in some cases cannot be
Coached.
Auden Tate was buried by Lewis while other stiffs like Cody Core were dropping passes.
And all he is done is put his down grind and get better.
He has the kind of character that ZT is looking for in order to redine the culture.
Can anyone tell how many recent 7th RD WRs averaged 14 yds a catch and coverted 72.5 % of their catches for
1st downs.? Yeah he is one of Burrows go to guys in training camp. He is for a reason.
Cause Joe Burrow has faith and trust in him. And for a young QB to have success he has to have trust and
Confidence when that ball comes out of his hands. Cause if he doesnt then thats longer he stands in the
Pocket and the clock ticks away to a defensive player winning his battle and wrecking the play.
Sorry for you Cody Core fans who Tate outplayed
Tate is part of the culture change.

[*bfine32*]

(08-27-2020, 06:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I just get a kick out of watching you argue against yourself. It's why I often use the exact same criteria you use and then watch you argue about how it doesn't matter or you "don't understand"

Auden Tate was among league leaders in drawing DPI. Despite only having 80 target he was interfered with 5 times. 

Auden Tate had 2 dropped passes last year

Auden Tate went from 4 catches for 35 yards to 40 catches for 575 yards

Auden Tate improved drastically and is showing great promise but you must argue against it because.....

(08-28-2020, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you guys are talking about.  I have been pretty consistent with this position over the years.  I have argued that it is difficult to grade offensive linemen without knowing exactly what their assignment is on every play.  I have argued that it is difficult to judge which DB messed up in coverage when we don't know what their individual assignment and responsibility was.  Now I am saying it is hard to judge if a throw was off target because of poor timing/route running by the receiver or if the QB messed up.

When I talk about receivers "adjusting their routes" I am not talking about different options for entirely different routes based on the coverage.  Instead I am talking about receivers running a drag pattern more shallow because the LBs don't drop as deep.  Or a receiver simply slowing down to sit in a soft spot in one coverage.  When i ask how we can tell if the receiver made the wrong adjustment all I get is "watch the film".  Well when i watch the film I can't see any way of telling if the receiver made an improper adjustment or if the QB made a bad pass.

[Earendil]

Why do we allow the same people to continually turn every thread to crap?

[*Synric*]

(08-28-2020, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you guys are talking about.  I have been pretty consistent with this position over the years.  I have argued that it is difficult to grade offensive linemen without knowing exactly what their assignment is on every play.  I have argued that it is difficult to judge which DB messed up in coverage when we don't know what their individual assignment and responsibility was.  Now I am saying it is hard to judge if a throw was off target because of poor timing/route running by the receiver or if the QB messed up.

This is all false.

Coordinators and Coaches do this every week to get their team ready to face an opponent. PFF has former coaches and players to review film and give grades which is the best way to do it when it comes to football.

Film review has been apart of football for a very very long time. The things your saying is difficult is exactly want watching film is...

[*Nately120*]

(08-28-2020, 12:00 PM)Earendil Wrote: Why do we allow the same people to continually turn every thread to crap?

Is it crap?  I mean, it's 7 pages long and it is an Auden Tate thread, so I guess it makes sense to think that it has been padded with some crap.

[Whatever]

(08-28-2020, 11:27 AM)impactplaya Wrote: For the record most WRs taken at the bottom of RD 7 usually dont make NFL rosters. There. Are exceptions.
But for a, 7th RD WR to make a roster he has to a certain skillset that is unique and in some cases cannot be
Coached.
Auden Tate was buried by Lewis while other stiffs like Cody Core were dropping passes.
And all he is done is put his down grind and get better.
He has the kind of character that ZT is looking for in order to redine the culture.
Can anyone tell how many recent 7th RD WRs averaged 14 yds a catch and coverted 72.5 % of their catches for
1st downs.?  Yeah he is one of Burrows go to guys in training camp. He is for a reason.
Cause Joe Burrow has faith and trust in him. And for a young QB to have success he has to have trust and
Confidence when that ball comes out of his hands. Cause if he doesnt then thats longer he stands in the
Pocket and the clock ticks away to a defensive player winning his battle and wrecking the play.
Sorry for you Cody Core fans who Tate outplayed
Tate is part of the culture change.

I'm not a Core fanboy, but he outproduced Tate in every statistical category in '18.  Core wasn't good, but Tate was abysmal.  Now, rookie WR usually take a year to adjust so I don't really hold that against Tate's future projection too much, but that's an inaccurate statement to say he was unfairly buried as a rookie.  Sad thing is, Core still has a higher career catch % than Tate.

As a point of comparison, Tate caught 4 of 12 targets for 35 yards as a rookie.  Damion Willis caught 9 of 16 Targets for 82 yards last year and he was determined to not be good enough to make the roster this year.  Anybody that thinks Tate should have gotten more PT as a rookie needs to put the Kool Aid away.

[Yojimbo]

(08-28-2020, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not a Core fanboy, but he outproduced Tate in every statistical category in '18.  Core wasn't good, but Tate was abysmal.  Now, rookie WR usually take a year to adjust so I don't really hold that against Tate's future projection too much, but that's an inaccurate statement to say he was unfairly buried as a rookie.  Sad thing is, Core still has a higher career catch % than Tate.

As a point of comparison, Tate caught 4 of 12 targets for 35 yards as a rookie.  Damion Willis caught 9 of 16 Targets for 82 yards last year and he was determined to not be good enough to make the roster this year.  Anybody that thinks Tate should have gotten more PT as a rookie needs to put the Kool Aid away.

Yeah, it’s not like getting more experience would lead to improving over time...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-28-2020, 08:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote:   I just disagree with the people who claim he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

Who has claimed this?

[impactplaya]

(08-28-2020, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not a Core fanboy, but he outproduced Tate in every statistical category in '18.  Core wasn't good, but Tate was abysmal.  Now, rookie WR usually take a year to adjust so I don't really hold that against Tate's future projection too much, but that's an inaccurate statement to say he was unfairly buried as a rookie.  Sad thing is, Core still has a higher career catch % than Tate.

As a point of comparison, Tate caught 4 of 12 targets for 35 yards as a rookie.  Damion Willis caught 9 of 16 Targets for 82 yards last year and he was determined to not be good enough to make the roster this year.  Anybody that thinks Tate should have gotten more PT as a rookie needs to put the Kool Aid away.

Their was no.resson to.play Core over Tste. The Bengals were eliminated from the plsyoff race. Might as well see what you 
Have in your younger guys. 
But nope Lewis stick with a WR with stone hands.

[Whatever]

(08-28-2020, 01:01 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Yeah, it’s not like getting more experience would lead to improving over time...

(08-28-2020, 02:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Their was no.resson to.play Core over Tste. The Bengals were eliminated from the plsyoff race. Might as well see what you 
Have in your younger guys. 
But nope Lewis stick with a WR with stone hands.

Come on guys, Marvin was coaching for his job.  When you're coaching for your job, you're playing your best players, not trying to develop guys for your successor.

Besides which, they targeted Tate 7 times in week 11 against the Browns.  He caught 2 of those passes for 15 yards.  Marvin gave him the opportunity to earn more reps down the stretch.  Tate failed to deliver.  Not being able to take advantage of an opportunity is world's different than not getting one.

[McC]

(08-28-2020, 01:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who has claimed this?

Nobody.  But hyperbole and exaggeration are on page one in The Blowhard's Handbook.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-28-2020, 01:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who has claimed this?

I don't recall a single post where anybody has said Jerry Rice is gonna have to step aside Auden Tate is coming thru. All folks are saying is the guy has shown some ability to contribute.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-28-2020, 08:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.) Is it really "tearing a player down" to disagree with a claim that he is an "unstoppable red zone threat" considering he has like 1 career td? 

2.) Or that he "catches everything" when he has a horrible catch percentage. 

3.) I just disagree with the people who claim he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

1.) Lie. No one has claimed he is an unstoppable red zone threat.  Who exactly are you quoting here?

2.) Lie #2.  No one has said he catches everything.  Again, who are you quoting here?

3.) Lie #3. No one has said anything remotely close to him being the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-28-2020, 01:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who has claimed this?

He does this all the time.  He takes a rather simple (and usually valid) opinion and tries to paint it to the extreme.

"We need to do more in free agency" is turned into "people claim we never use free agency"

"Auden Tate is not similar to Armon Binns" is turned into "Auden Tate is a superstar"

"Bobby Hart is not a good starting OT" is turned into "Bobby Hart is the worst OL in the league"

etc., etc., etc.


I find people who do this usually do it only because they can't win an debate using the actual arguments made, so they try to paint the other as completely irrational.

[Earendil]

(08-28-2020, 06:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: He does this all the time.  He takes a rather simple (and usually valid) opinion and tries to paint it to the extreme.

"We need to do more in free agency" is turned into "people claim we never use free agency"

"Auden Tate is not similar to Armon Binns" is turned into "Auden Tate is a superstar"

"Bobby Hart is not a good starting OT" is turned into "Bobby Hart is the worst OL in the league"

etc., etc., etc.


I find people who do this usually do it only because they can't win an debate using the actual arguments made, so they try to paint the other as completely irrational.

My question is why does everyone keep falling for it?