One penalty.

[fredtoast]

Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game. We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09. That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start. But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

[HarleyDog]

(09-16-2020, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game.  We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.  

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09.  That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start.  But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

Damn right we have reasons to be positive. We will get better as the season goes and what counts is it all coming together in time for the playoffs. 

[Au165]

(09-16-2020, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game.  We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.  

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09.  That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start.  But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

I think the other part of this that is interesting, aside from one of the top pass rushes in the league the Chargers have one of the best secondaries in the league EVEN WITHOUT Derwin James. They have 3 corners that are all arguably better than any single corner on our team. Joe missed a wide-open AJ, slightly didn't connect with Ross, and should have had a TD to AJ on a deep shot if AJ runs a better route, all of which could also easily have changed the narrative here this week.

If we take into account that most teams don't have both that pass rush or that secondary, let alone both, you really should feel optimistic about what this offense can become as we move along. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-16-2020, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game.  We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.  

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09.  That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start.  But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

My problem is that I see all the pieces...and I saw a guy calling plays that made zero sense whatsoever.  I just have no faith in ZT at all and he is the one driving the bus.  

I don't want another season of playing for a draft pick.  If they can get their shit together Thursday, great.  But I have almost no faith after the design that they had nine months to create.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-16-2020, 11:47 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think the other part of this that is interesting, aside from one of the top pass rushes in the league the Chargers have one of the best secondaries in the league EVEN WITHOUT Derwin James. They have 3 corners that are all arguably better than any single corner on our team. Joe missed a wide-open AJ, slightly didn't connect with Ross, and should have had a TD to AJ on a deep shot if AJ runs a better route, all of which could also easily have changed the narrative here this week.

If we take into account that most teams don't have both that pass rush or that secondary, let alone both, you really should feel optimistic about what this offense can become as we move along. 

Let's see how stupid KC makes them look next week.  And lay the measly 8.5 points.  I would be shocked if the Chargers scored more than 17 points against KC.

[*Synric*]

(09-16-2020, 11:47 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think the other part of this that is interesting, aside from one of the top pass rushes in the league the Chargers have one of the best secondaries in the league EVEN WITHOUT Derwin James. They have 3 corners that are all arguably better than any single corner on our team. Joe missed a wide-open AJ, slightly didn't connect with Ross, and should have had a TD to AJ on a deep shot if AJ runs a better route, all of which could also easily have changed the narrative here this week.

If we take into account that most teams don't have both that pass rush or that secondary, let alone both, you really should feel optimistic about what this offense can become as we move along. 

Two teams that do have good pass rush and a great secondary are in the AFC North.

[PDub80]

(09-16-2020, 11:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: My problem is that I see all the pieces...and I saw a guy calling plays that made zero sense whatsoever.  I just have no faith in ZT at all and he is the one driving the bus.  

I don't want another season of playing for a draft pick.  If they can get their shit together Thursday, great.  But I have almost no faith after the design that they had nine months to create.  

The ZT stat where he's 2-20 for his last 22 games he's called plays and avg 16.1 points per games is disheartening.

But then, Peyton Manning going 3-13 as a rookie lifts my spirits up. The QB developing is best for the long and I am fine with Burrow leading the way moving forward.

[Au165]

(09-16-2020, 11:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: My problem is that I see all the pieces...and I saw a guy calling plays that made zero sense whatsoever.  I just have no faith in ZT at all and he is the one driving the bus.  

I don't want another season of playing for a draft pick.  If they can get their shit together Thursday, great.  But I have almost no faith after the design that they had nine months to create.  

The play calling was fine. I keep hearing people say "playcalling was bad" and honestly, I'd love to hear from people who think this what exactly they are talking about. I thought they tried some stuff early Joe was comfortable with, specifically 5 wide, that they learned was tough to do with Bosa on the field. They went back to it later in the game when he was off the field, and when he was on he was tired, and they found success with it. The attached TE/ and bunch sets they were running out of seemed solid. I think Uzomah is a liability in run blocking and would like to see more Sample, but at the same time in the 3rd they went to some really nice play actions out of those same sets that worked well because of the setup.

I think sometimes people look to the result and blame the play, with various options in a play the QB's choice has a lot of impact on what people think is a good or bad play call. Joe for instance looked right on most all his throws, partially because that is where Bosa and pressure came from most the day. Had Joe been able to work back to some backside concepts we may have thoguht the play calling was magical. Throwing hot for the entire first half definetly makes it a bit tough to say the play calling, or design was bad.

I just don't see the issues, at a football level like I saw last year. They haven't been able to install anything close to their full offense yet with no real off-season. Even when the full offense is installed in a few weeks you only ever enter a game with 50 plays or less for that week in most cases and it's usually based of the looks you expect to see, with no pre-season it had to be hard to even guess what to install for this week. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-16-2020, 11:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: The play calling was fine. I keep hearing people say "playcalling was bad" and honestly, I'd love to hear from people who think this what exactly they are talking about. I thought they tried some stuff early Joe was comfortable with, specifically 5 wide, that they learned was tough to do with Bosa on the field. They went back to it later in the game when he was off the field, and when he was on he was tired, and they found success with it. The attached TE/ and bunch sets they were running out of seemed solid. I think Uzomah is a liability in run blocking and would like to see more Sample, but at the same time in the 3rd they went to some really nice play actions out of those same sets that worked well because of the setup.

I just don't see the issues, at a football level like I saw last year. They haven't been able to install anything close to their full offense yet with no real off-season. Even when the full offense is installed in a few weeks you only ever enter a game with 50 plays or less for that week in most cases and it's usually based of the looks you expect to see, with no pre-season it had to be hard to even guess what to install for this week. 

Thank you.

I didn't see any ultra-intricate schemes or plays called, but I thought the game called on offense was more than enough to get us to win; execution just wasn't there.

[Au165]

(09-16-2020, 11:53 AM)Synric Wrote: Two teams that do have good pass rush and a great secondary are in the AFC North.

Chargers have a better pass rush and secondary than both. Those two teams are good though, but I am taking LA over both today as they stand.

[*Synric*]

(09-16-2020, 11:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: The play calling was fine. I keep hearing people say "playcalling was bad" and honestly, I'd love to hear from people who think this what exactly they are talking about. I thought they tried some stuff early Joe was comfortable with, specifically 5 wide, that they learned was tough to do with Bosa on the field. They went back to it later in the game when he was off the field, and when he was on he was tired, and they found success with it. The attached TE/ and bunch sets they were running out of seemed solid. I think Uzomah is a liability in run blocking and would like to see more Sample, but at the same time in the 3rd they went to some really nice play actions out of those same sets that worked well because of the setup.

I think sometimes people look to the result and blame the play, with various options in a play the QB's choice has a lot of impact on what people think is a good or bad play call. Joe for instance looked right on most all his throws, partially because that is where Bosa and pressure came from most the day. Had Joe been able to work back to some backside concepts we may have thoguht the play calling was magical. Throwing hot for the entire first half definetly makes it a bit tough to say the play calling, or design was bad.

I just don't see the issues, at a football level like I saw last year. They haven't been able to install anything close to their full offense yet with no real off-season. Even when the full offense is installed in a few weeks you only ever enter a game with 50 plays or less for that week in most cases and it's usually based of the looks you expect to see, with no pre-season it had to be hard to even guess what to install for this week. 

Im not a fan. The scripted plays were ugly especially the pitches that had a ton of moving parts. I don't mind mixing in pitches but opening with your first two runs that way meh. Zac used empty sets early on first/second downs OFTEN with zero motion. Also I didn't like the tempo and constant shifting of personnel which allowed the Chargers defense to stay fresh. 

To me it looked more like week 1 or 2 of the pre-season.

[PDub80]

(09-16-2020, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Lets face it. If Green is not called for PI then no one here gives a shit about how Burrow looked the rest of the game.  We would be clearing a spot for a statue in front of PBS.  

There would have been no better way for him to begin his career than a come-from-behind game-winning drive in the final minute of a game.

It is amazing the difference one simple call can make.

Hopefully this opening day heartbreak will fade from our memory like the opening day loss to Denver in '09.  That '09 team was coming off a 4 win season and losing like that on opening day seemed to be a sign the season was doomed from the start.  But we turned it around and made the playoffs.

As much as it hurt to lose a game like that on Sunday we still have reasons to be positive about the season.

I agree with the sentiment of your post.

The silver lining I took from the game was Burrow owning all of it, even when excuses were Teed-up for him in post game and Monday after watching film. He owned it.

Him speaking aloud that the games come down to 2 or 3 plays and being conscious of that makes me feel good that the season will be one of ascension, which was my only want for a weird 2020: To end playing significantly better as the year moved forward.

[Au165]

(09-16-2020, 12:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Im not a fan. The scripted plays were ugly especially the pitches that had a ton of moving parts. I don't mind mixing in pitches but opening with your first two runs that way meh. Zac used empty sets early on first and second downs and often with zero motion. Also I didn't like the tempo and constant shifting of personnel which allowed the Chargers defense to stay fresh. 

To me it looked more like week 1 or 2 of the pre-season.

The pitches didn't really have any more moving parts than most today, or than when they used the second half last year. When you pitch from that bunch set you normally pin and pull, so it was all standard. They had great success doing that exact scheme for Mixon in the second half of the year, it was literally the play that saved Mixon's season. Empty sets are there to create spacing and force guys to declare early, that is I'm sure a comfort level for Burrow. Not having motions in them is more of a nitpicky thing based on what is in vogue right now, but a lot of teams do little in terms of motioning on 5 wide outside a couple of main teams. The tempo is what it is, I think everyone loves tempo until you go 3 and out and your defense is right back on the field. I prefer tempo late in games not early for that reason.

We will have to agree to disagree here, even though we usually agree. 

Edit:

Here is a quote from Mixon last year when he was feasting on the new scheme and why they are running so many pitches and why they work.

"That’s what gives me that separation and break through, the vision that I’ve been displaying," said Mixon.

We can't simply say because of the results we hate something, when just last year, we were heralding both the blocking scheme change and the move to getting him on the edge as a great adjustment.

[*Synric*]

(09-16-2020, 12:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: The pitches didn't really have any more moving parts than most today, or than when they used the second half last year. When you pitch from that bunch set you normally pin and pull, so it was all standard. They had great success doing that exact scheme for Mixon in the second half of the year, it was literally the play that saved Mixon's season. Empty sets are there to create spacing and force guys to declare early, that is I'm sure a comfort level for Burrow. Not having motions in them is more of a nitpicky thing based on what is in vogue right now, but a lot of teams do little in terms of motioning on 5 wide outside a couple of main teams. The tempo is what it is, I think everyone loves tempo until you go 3 and out and your defense is right back on the field. I prefer tempo late in games not early for that reason.

We will have to agree to disagree here, even though we usually agree. 

I agree with you on Sample he had some really nice blocks in pass pro and run blocking. I even remember him solo blocking Bosa twice in pass pro in winning. 

[Au165]

(09-16-2020, 12:24 PM)Synric Wrote: I agree with you on Sample he had some really nice blocks in pass pro and run blocking. I even remember him solo blocking Bosa twice in pass pro in winning. 

Yep, he cleaned Bosa out on a down block once and had two really nice pass rush reps. Outside Bosa, he did really well getting to the second level with only one missed block by my count. I think we HAVE to start getting him more involved in 11 personnel over Uzomah as Sample was only really in when we went 12 personnel. 

[bengals67]

(09-16-2020, 11:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: The play calling was fine. I keep hearing people say "playcalling was bad" and honestly, I'd love to hear from people who think this what exactly they are talking about. I thought they tried some stuff early Joe was comfortable with, specifically 5 wide, that they learned was tough to do with Bosa on the field. They went back to it later in the game when he was off the field, and when he was on he was tired, and they found success with it. The attached TE/ and bunch sets they were running out of seemed solid. I think Uzomah is a liability in run blocking and would like to see more Sample, but at the same time in the 3rd they went to some really nice play actions out of those same sets that worked well because of the setup.

I think sometimes people look to the result and blame the play, with various options in a play the QB's choice has a lot of impact on what people think is a good or bad play call. Joe for instance looked right on most all his throws, partially because that is where Bosa and pressure came from most the day. Had Joe been able to work back to some backside concepts we may have thoguht the play calling was magical. Throwing hot for the entire first half definetly makes it a bit tough to say the play calling, or design was bad.

I just don't see the issues, at a football level like I saw last year. They haven't been able to install anything close to their full offense yet with no real off-season. Even when the full offense is installed in a few weeks you only ever enter a game with 50 plays or less for that week in most cases and it's usually based of the looks you expect to see, with no pre-season it had to be hard to even guess what to install for this week. 

I think you are exactly right.

Burrow's first game plus the need to protect him contributed to more conservative game script

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2020, 11:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think sometimes people look to the result and blame the play, 

This times a million.  If a play does not work then it was a stupid call.  

If a coach calls something out of the ordinary that does not work he is stupid for "not making the obvious call".  If he makes the "obvious call" and it does not work then he is "too predictable".

[*bfine32*]

If Burfict doesn't get called for a personal foul we're most likely starting our 5th season with AJ McCarron as our starting QB.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-16-2020, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Burfict doesn't get called for a personal foul we're most likely starting our 5th season with AJ McCarron as our starting QB.

Thank heavens Burfict did what he did hehe

[GreenCornBengal]

I think the best summation of what Fred is getting at here is the old adage “Winning cures everything.”

Another old adage for tomorrow, “Just win baby!”.