How Long Will the Rebuilding Take?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

One of my favorite posters, Marlon23, created a playoff thread and I’m not sure the Bengals are ready to be considered for postseason talk yet.

What I would like to open for discussion is the opposite end of the spectrum. How long will it take to rebuild the Bengals into a perennial playoff team? Is it even possible? For example, Marvin Lewis coached Cincinnati to a playoff appearance in his third season. Is there a chance Zac Taylor can repeat this accomplishment in 2021?

While I’m usually among the more optimistic posters, I’m not feeling it right now. Realistically I see a ceiling of 4-12 and a floor of 1-15 for the Bengals in 2020 and I take no pleasure typing that. As much as I want to delude myself into daydreaming about a miraculous 14-2 turnaround, I’m seeing this more realistically.

This team and the coaches have more issues than the magazine section at the Library of Congress. I’m thinking the Bengals will be having the #1OA draft pick for the foreseeable future.

What say you?

[GreenCornBengal]

We aren’t as far off as people think around here.

A 3 pt loss with a bad OPI and a kicker fluke that would’ve taken us to OT.
A 5 pt loss on a Thursday game thanks to a defense that didn’t show up.

I think next year is the start of something great. I think we barely miss the playoffs this year and look strong at the end of the season. If they fix this O-line and get a few more pieces on D they will be playoff ready. That sounds like one more offseason to me.

[P W]

younger fans, people that came along after the 1990s, have not fully experienced what befell the bengals front office after paul brown's passing. so when you ask, "how long will a rebuilding take?" you have to consider, "is the mike brown-katie blackburn-troy imarriedintothis ready to commit to winning a playoff game or a superbowl?" if you look over the past 30 years of roster moves, one thing always holds this team back, the front office.

when they drafted a qbotf with the overall #1 and chose to stand pat on the OL situation this off season, was anyone surprised?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-20-2020, 10:01 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We aren’t as far off as people think around here.

A 3 pt loss with a bad OPI and a kicker fluke that would’ve taken us to OT.
A 5 pt loss on a Thursday game thanks to a defense that didn’t show up.

I think next year is the start of something great. I think we barely miss the playoffs this year and look strong at the end of the season. If they fix this O-line and get a few more pieces on D they will be playoff ready. That sounds like one more offseason to me.

Agree mostly

I'm not so sure we just miss the playoffs but I'm not so sure we're as bad as some say ? Sure the Oline has issues and the D is aging. I think next year we'll be a force and the following year look out.

[Browns Town Bengal]

(09-20-2020, 10:01 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We aren’t as far off as people think around here.

A 3 pt loss with a bad OPI and a kicker fluke that would’ve taken us to OT.
A 5 pt loss on a Thursday game thanks to a defense that didn’t show up.

I think next year is the start of something great. I think we barely miss the playoffs this year and look strong at the end of the season. If they fix this O-line and get a few more pieces on D they will be playoff ready. That sounds like one more offseason to me.

That same defense that didnt show up will be the same defense that wont show up all season though.  Bengals have been terrible on D the last few years and that doesnt look to end anytime soon

[Bengalholic]

Protect your QB and pressure the opposing QB.
Be able to run effectively and stop the run on D.

They're having issues in all 4 areas. Hard to win games when you're struggling in ALL those facets of the game. There's still a lot of work to be done. They have to figure out a way to improve in these areas...especially protecting their QB and stopping the run. 

[jfkbengals]

(09-20-2020, 01:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Protect your QB and pressure the opposing QB.
Be able to run effectively and stop the run on D.

They're having issues in all 4 areas. Hard to win games when you're struggling in ALL those facets of the game. There's still a lot of work to be done. They have to figure out a way to improve in these areas...especially protecting their QB and stopping the run. 

I feel like we are set in all of the skill positions to make this happen.  Improve in the trenches and we will be in great shape.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-20-2020, 01:28 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I feel like we are set in all of the skill positions to make this happen.  Improve in the trenches and we will be in great shape.

So we just need to improve half the team. That should be easy enough...

[BFritz21]

Personally, I think that we just need to improve the offensive line, get some linebackers, and hope our aging guys, particularly on defense, can still produce, and we're a playoff team.

Look at how good Burrow has been with no time to throw the ball and the defense not doing him any favors!  Imagine putting him behind a decent offensive line that gives him some time to throw and he can make anyone look like a superstar!

Hopefully there's a few quality free agents that we can sign, which I think Troy and Katie will be all-in on giving Burrow the tools he needs to succeed, and a few players in the draft to plug and play, 

We might need to move a few players around on the line, but I think we can improve that with the first two picks in the draft and a full offseason to shuffle guys around and get them comfortable.  

Then maybe get a few backers in the draft or free agency and I think we're set to go.

I rest my hope on us having four cornerstone pieces to a winner: Burrow, AJ, Mixon, and Geno.  Build around them and I think we can at least make a run at it for one more year, particularly with a bunch of young receivers.  A playoff win next season would hopefully attract a bunch of free agents to play knowing that Burrow is leading the show.

(09-20-2020, 10:01 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We aren’t as far off as people think around here.

A 3 pt loss with a bad OPI and a kicker fluke that would’ve taken us to OT.
A 5 pt loss on a Thursday game thanks to a defense that didn’t show up.

I think next year is the start of something great. I think we barely miss the playoffs this year and look strong at the end of the season. If they fix this O-line and get a few more pieces on D they will be playoff ready. That sounds like one more offseason to me.

That's what I'm thinking and I think a full offseason of improving, meeting, practicing, etc. rona-free will help matters.

Our D is aging and, while he's getting a bit older, you don't think a healthy Geno changes the outcome of those first two games.  

Burrow's the real deal and he's doing it with a dog-shit offensive line.  

Honestly, like you said, if we can just improve the offensive line and get a few pieces on defense, we're a playoff team. 

(09-20-2020, 10:06 AM)P W Wrote: younger fans, people that came along after the 1990s, have not fully experienced what befell the bengals front office after paul brown's passing. so when you ask, "how long will a rebuilding take?" you have to consider, "is the mike brown-katie blackburn-troy imarriedintothis ready to commit to winning a playoff game or a superbowl?" if you look over the past 30 years of roster moves, one thing always holds this team back, the front office. 

when they drafted a qbotf with the overall #1 and chose to stand pat on the OL situation this off season, was anyone surprised?

Correction with the entire first paragraph because it's not the front office, it's Mike Brown.  

With Katie and Troy pretty much running things now, I feel like they'll give Zac all the tools he needs to be successful.

I'll give them a pass this offseason on the line because the whole world was in hell with the Rona.

(09-20-2020, 01:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Protect your QB and pressure the opposing QB.
Be able to run effectively and stop the run on D.

They're having issues in all 4 areas. Hard to win games when you're struggling in ALL those facets of the game. There's still a lot of work to be done. They have to figure out a way to improve in these areas...especially protecting their QB and stopping the run. 

Yeah, I was shocked at how much our d got pushed around and how ineffective our linebackers were.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(09-20-2020, 10:01 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We aren’t as far off as people think around here.

A 3 pt loss with a bad OPI and a kicker fluke that would’ve taken us to OT.
A 5 pt loss on a Thursday game thanks to a defense that didn’t show up.

I think next year is the start of something great. I think we barely miss the playoffs this year and look strong at the end of the season. If they fix this O-line and get a few more pieces on D they will be playoff ready. That sounds like one more offseason to me.

I generally agree with your optimism ... regarding 2021 at least. 

As far as this year goes, almost going to OT against a Lac team that frankly is also going to suck this year isn't that heartening. And I didn't see a 5 point loss against Cleveland. They pushed us around. I have a hard time seeing us win more than one game in the AFC North, and we might not win any. 

I do believe we're one more good draft and solid free agency period away from being really competitive. Provided the coaching staff doesn't hold us back at least - and my confidence in that is rapidly draining. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-20-2020, 02:16 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: I generally agree with your optimism ... regarding 2021 at least. 

As far as this year goes, almost going to OT against a Lac team that frankly is also going to suck this year isn't that heartening. And I didn't see a 5 point loss against Cleveland. They pushed us around. I have a hard time seeing us win more than one game in the AFC North, and we might not win any. 

I do believe we're one more good draft and solid free agency period away from being really competitive. Provided the coaching staff doesn't hold us back at least - and my confidence in that is rapidly draining. 

Yes, the coaching is a bit scary. I feel that the offensive scheme is good enough and that JB will keep us in games. A few tweaks to the O-line personnel or scheme and we are good there.

Defense is where the coaching is sub-par. Anarumo is not a winner, and had a terrible defense at the Giants before here. He lucks into a good game here and there, but overall the defense stinks and it’s a lack of umph that’s been missing here since the Zimmer days.

[*Synric*]

Bud Dupree is a guy the Bengals should consider in free agency this offseason. He has really come into his own as a ROLB.

[P W]

(09-20-2020, 01:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Correction with the entire first paragraph because it's not the front office, it's Mike Brown.  

With Katie and Troy pretty much running things now, I feel like they'll give Zac all the tools he needs to be successful.

correction: andrew whitworth on line 1.

[Whatever]

(09-20-2020, 09:38 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: One of my favorite posters, Marlon23, created a playoff thread and I’m not sure the Bengals are ready to be considered for postseason talk yet.  

What I would like to open for discussion is the opposite end of the spectrum.  How long will it take to rebuild the Bengals into a perennial playoff team? Is it even possible? For example, Marvin Lewis coached Cincinnati to a playoff appearance in his third season.  Is there a chance Zac Taylor can repeat this accomplishment in 2021?

While I’m usually among the more optimistic posters, I’m not feeling it right now.  Realistically I see a ceiling of 4-12 and a floor of 1-15 for the Bengals in 2020 and I take no pleasure typing that.  As much as I want to delude myself into daydreaming about a miraculous 14-2 turnaround, I’m seeing this more realistically.

This team and the coaches have more issues than the magazine section at the Library of Congress.  I’m thinking the Bengals will be having the #1OA draft pick for the foreseeable future.

What say you?

Tough to say at this point.  We really have to see how some of the young guys develop this year to see what kind of shape they will be in going forward.

[McC]

(09-20-2020, 02:37 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Yes, the coaching is a bit scary. I feel that the offensive scheme is good enough and that JB will keep us in games. A few tweaks to the O-line personnel or scheme and we are good there.

Defense is where the coaching is sub-par. Anarumo is not a winner, and had a terrible defense at the Giants before here. He lucks into a good game here and there, but overall the defense stinks and it’s a lack of umph that’s been missing here since the Zimmer days.

First of all, Lou was the DB coach in NY, so you can't really say HE had a terrible defense when he was a position coach.   Right off the bat, most of the crux of your argument is wrong.

I'm not saying he is doing a great job, but if his guys get suckered on naked bootlegs and bite on poorly executed double moves and don't tackle guys they have their hands on and the DE's don't set the edge on the run, how is it that some people are so convinced that the DC is so terrible?

The coordinator's job is to put his people in position to make plays.  It sure looked to me like that was happening Thursday night.  If those plays are made, we're having a whole different conversation.

Half his defense is new guys who had on off season program or preseason games to clean things up.

I can't believe how some people are losing their shit over two losses by a total of eight points to two teams who were both favored in those games.

[Murdock2420]

I'll say three years away.

And it isn't a pessimistic view, it is just an honest thought. Geno, A.J. and Dunlap are all aging and will all need to be replaced soon. (Hate it, but it is true) So that takes out three starters. After that, you have the waste of space Hart and the gaping wound at RG. Add in the terrible pick of Ross and having to replace him, plus the normal loss of FA's and you are seeing 6 for certain starters to be replaced and possibly a 7th in the next year or two. With our track record at drafting, hard to think one draft fixes that, so two drafts, and two years of keeping our own players that need to be kept and getting a few decent free agents and this team has a chance. Just have to keep Joe alive that long.

[*ochocincos*]

While some people don't value PFF at all, I think it's worthwhile to at least look at their scores to see if there are any trends.

On the good teams, there's usually a few 70+ rated players.
The Bengals have no OL or DL at 70+.
The only Bengal with 65+ pass rush is Carl Lawson with a score of 66.
Reader and Hubbard have 70+ run defense but below 60 pass rush.

The only starters who have a 70+ rating on the team are Bates (which was just from week 1, was below that week 2) and Drew Sample.

If the rebuild actually ever finishes, we need to see a few players elevate into that upper tier, especially given Atkins, Dunlap, and Green are (getting) past their prime.

[*Synric*]

(09-20-2020, 03:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While some people don't value PFF at all, I think it's worthwhile to at least look at their scores to see if there are any trends.

On the good teams, there's usually a few 70+ rated players.
The Bengals have no OL or DL at 70+.
The only Bengal with 65+ pass rush is Carl Lawson with a score of 66.
Reader and Hubbard have 70+ run defense but below 60 pass rush.

The only starters who have a 70+ rating on the team are Bates (which was just from week 1, was below that week 2) and Drew Sample.

If the rebuild actually ever finishes, we need to see a few players elevate into that upper tier, especially given Atkins, Dunlap, and Green are (getting) past their prime.

And William Jackson III.

I believe Drew Sample is the highest graded player on the team after two weeks lol.

[impactplaya]

It's funny how the Steelers excel in so many phases. How come the BROWN family cant look at the Rooney model of success

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-20-2020, 04:04 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's funny how the Steelers excel in so many phases. How come the BROWN family cant look at the Rooney model of success

I don’t find it funny at all.