Burrow vs. Herbert

[Essex Johnson]

Interesting early storyline.. both rookies off to a good start in their career. Herbert comes in cold off to start week 2 and almost pulls the upset of the year with a close lose to Chiefs and close lose yesterday with Carolina.. He has thrown for over 300 yards both games like Burrow has last two games. Herbert did not get the fanfare of Burrow but I felt he setup well as a NFL QB... and if Tua starts to produce when he gets the starting chance.. this could be a great QB class.. too early to tell who comes out on top but for sure Burrow and Herbert are off to a good start in their rookie years.

[HarleyDog]

I was very impressed with Herbert played against KC. He was very cool and not rattled. Both are going to be good QB's but I don't have a very strong opinion of Tua. I honestly think he will be less than expected. Just a feeling.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 06:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I was very impressed with Herbert played against KC. He was very cool and not rattled. Both are going to be good QB's but I don't have a very strong opinion of Tua. I honestly think he will be less than expected. Just a feeling.

You might be correct but he actually might benefit more on the bench.. in terms of watching a veteran and the hits both rookie QBS are going to take.  Interesting to see if we continue to lose and if they sit Burrow to have him saved from the hits and also maybe to watch and learn from the sideline .. 

[HarleyDog]

(09-28-2020, 06:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You might be correct but he actually might benefit more on the bench.. in terms of watching a veteran and the hits both rookie QBS are going to take.  Interesting to see if we continue to lose and if they sit Burrow to have him saved from the hits and also maybe to watch and learn from the sideline .. 

Problem with sitting Burrow is, "Who's he going to learn from?" He can't learn sitting on the bench with second stringer playing and a coaching staff that tells him the play didn't work because of xyz. He will learn quicker being out there and knowing for himself why the plays didn't work and have a say in changing things. But is the risk worth the reward? Hard to tell. They have to do something to protect this guy.

[Mobster]

The issue with Herbert is he was so up and down. Would look great at times but awful at other times. Burrow was so consistently good

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 06:59 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Problem with sitting Burrow is, "Who's he going to learn from?" He can't learn sitting on the bench with second stringer playing and a coaching staff that tells him the play didn't work because of xyz. He will learn quicker being out there and knowing for himself why the plays didn't work and have a say in changing things. But is the risk worth the reward? Hard to tell. They have to do something to protect this guy.

Sometimes it is best to see the plays develop on the sidelines.. he does have to work on holding the ball too long .. that might help and so many already worry about his health.. why not sit him.. let the line get better or at least mix the line up with a backup to see what happens instead of Burrow .... 

I don;t buy you get better by just playing... there are a lot of QBS out of football that played alot in first season

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 07:02 PM)Mobster Wrote: The issue with Herbert is he was so up and down. Would  look great at times but awful at other times. Burrow was so consistently good

Well after two NFL games.. Herbert has performed  just as good and probably better than Burrow in his first two games.. Only fair to judge them on what they do in the NFL now not college....

[HarleyDog]

(09-28-2020, 07:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Sometimes it is best to see the plays develop on the sidelines.. he does have to work on holding the ball too long .. that might help and so many already worry about his health.. why not sit him.. let the line get better or at least mix the line up with a backup to see what happens instead of Burrow .... 

I don;t buy you get better by just playing... there are a lot of QBS out of football that played alot in first season

Trust me. I see your point. God forbid we lose him to a career ending injury. I really don't know how that would play out with Joe though. He want's to be out there. He want's to win. It's the coaches jobs to put players on the field to protect him.

(09-28-2020, 07:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well after two NFL games.. Herbert has performed  just as good and probably better than Burrow in his first two games.. Only fair to judge them on what they do in the NFL now not college....

Yes.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 07:18 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Trust me. I see your point. God forbid we lose him to a career ending injury. I really don't know how that would play out with Joe though. He want's to be out there. He want's to win. It's the coaches jobs to put players on the field to protect him.


Yes.

Many of the players want to win... but we are in a rebuild.. like a good young pitcher.. sometimes you shut him down early in career when the team is bad.. to save his arm etc.. maybe we do the same if we are 0-8.. and if we are 0-8.. some blame needs to go to Burrow and help his mental game .. sitting might now be bad.. 

[guyofthetiger]

Burrow is improving every game. He needs to throw the ball away quicker when the receivers are covered. He'll learn that by being out there. Herbert will be a good QB in the NFL. He has been thrown into the fire and performed well.

[Destro]

Some players can start and some are better to learn behind. Can't really tell what may happen. Aaron Rodgers will have a bust in Canton, but he sat behind another HOF QB. Usually #1OA starts day one. (I know we didn't with Palmer. ) I'd feel better with garbage receivers than a garbage O-line. Rather have25 drops instead of 25 sacks.

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 07:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well after two NFL games.. Herbert has performed  just as good and probably better than Burrow in his first two games.. Only fair to judge them on what they do in the NFL now not college....

Their yardage has been similar, but Herbert has only 2 TD's and 2 Int's while Burrow has 5 TD's and 1 Int, plus a rushing TD.  That's a very big difference.  I think Herbert has a better supporting cast around him.  I'll give Herbert props in that he's played better than I thought he would this year, though.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 06:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You might be correct but he actually might benefit more on the bench.. in terms of watching a veteran and the hits both rookie QBS are going to take.  Interesting to see if we continue to lose and if they sit Burrow to have him saved from the hits and also maybe to watch and learn from the sideline .. 

Learn from watching Ryan Finley? Now that’s funny.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 07:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well after two NFL games.. Herbert has performed  just as good and probably better than Burrow in his first two games.. Only fair to judge them on what they do in the NFL now not college....

Not really. Through 2 games Burrow had more TD’s and less INT’s. Herbert put up more Yds but he’s fortunate enough to not be playing behind our OL. And he’s 0-2 just like Burrow was.

Burrow’s best game so far (312 yds 2 TD 0 INT 105.5 rating) >>> Herbert’s best game so far (311 yds 1 TD 1 INT 94.4 rating).

[coachmcneil71]

(09-28-2020, 06:46 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Interesting early storyline.. both rookies off to a good start in their career.  Herbert comes in cold off to start week 2 and almost pulls the upset of the year with a close lose to Chiefs and close lose yesterday with Carolina.. He has thrown for over 300 yards both games like Burrow has last two games.  Herbert did not get the fanfare of Burrow but I felt he setup well as a NFL QB... and if Tua starts to produce when he gets the starting chance.. this could be a great QB class.. too early to tell who comes out on top but for sure Burrow and Herbert are off to a good start in their rookie years.

Wait til Hurts takes Wentz's job and the Eagles start winning. It's coming. I don't blame the Eagles struggles on Wentz, but Eagles and Bengal fans are a lot alike. They want to see the rookie! He needs a W next week to keep his job.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-28-2020, 07:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well after two NFL games.. Herbert has performed  just as good and probably better than Burrow in his first two games.. Only fair to judge them on what they do in the NFL now not college....

Herbert has way more talent around him than Burrow.

WR's - Check  (Keeanan Allen and Mike Williams are one the better duos in the league. Both are better than AJ)

TE - Check (Hunter Henry is a top 10 tight end.  Drew Sample is top 10 turd)

Receiving Back - Check (Austin Ekeler may very well be the best back in the league at this.  If he's not, he's only 2nd to McCaffrey)

OL - Check

Defense - Check

Herbert has better protection, and better weapons, with a better defense.  Not to mention, he's got better coaching.

If you put Justin Herbert into this offense I can almost guarantee his numbers would look much, much worse.

[coachmcneil71]

(09-28-2020, 09:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not really. Through 2 games Burrow had more TD’s and less INT’s. Herbert put up more Yds but he’s fortunate enough to not be playing behind our OL. And he’s 0-2 just like Burrow was.

Burrow’s best game so far (312 yds 2 TD 0 INT 105.5 rating) >>> Herbert’s best game so far (311 yds 1 TD 1 INT 94.4 rating).

You don't need to defend JB. He does that with his play and demeanor. We're ALL glad that he's here. Ts, this was my point back in December; we have a lot of holes to fill. Did then, and still do.

There are/were several very good QBs in the last draft. More than just the one you so dearly coveted. That's not a shot at you, it's just the way it is. Joe is/was a fine QB to covet. Had to start somewhere. Didn't necessarily have to be QB, though.

This year's draft needs to be lineman (both sides/ Geno,Carlos= old), CBs, and LBs. Maybe, one WR fairly early, but that's it. No need to draft a single skill position. None, whatsoever! Good RBs and WRs can be found in FA.

The coaching problems go without saying. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 09:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Herbert has way more talent around him than Burrow.

WR's - Check  (Keeanan Allen and Mike Williams are one the better duos in the league. Both are better than AJ)

TE - Check (Hunter Henry is a top 10 tight end.  Drew Sample is top 10 turd)

Receiving Back - Check (Austin Ekeler may very well be the best back in the league at this.  If he's not, he's only 2nd to McCaffrey)

OL - Check

Defense - Check

Herbert has better protection, and better weapons, with a better defense.  Not to mention, he's got better coaching.

If you put Justin Herbert into this offense I can almost guarantee his numbers would look much, much worse.

And vice versa.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 08:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Their yardage has been similar, but Herbert has only 2 TD's and 2 Int's while Burrow has 5 TD's and 1 Int, plus a rushing TD.  That's a very big difference.  I think Herbert has a better supporting cast around him.  I'll give Herbert props in that he's played better than I thought he would this year, though.

I was very impressed with him being pressed into duty  and throwing over 300 against  KC , he actually thrown for 650 range in his only two games and splitting hairs really in cast.. bottom line he is off to a side start also.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 09:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Herbert has way more talent around him than Burrow.

WR's - Check  (Keeanan Allen and Mike Williams are one the better duos in the league. Both are better than AJ)

TE - Check (Hunter Henry is a top 10 tight end.  Drew Sample is top 10 turd)

Receiving Back - Check (Austin Ekeler may very well be the best back in the league at this.  If he's not, he's only 2nd to McCaffrey)

OL - Check

Defense - Check

Herbert has better protection, and better weapons, with a better defense.  Not to mention, he's got better coaching.

If you put Justin Herbert into this offense I can almost guarantee his numbers would look much, much worse.

Funny how we just cant seem to give credit to Herbert when he has performed  totally on par with Burrow rt and sorry I put Boyd over William's all day and Mixon a draw.. and let's add how our not so good defense shut theor passing down.. Herbert takes over and throws for near 650 ..hmm..