Burrow vs. Herbert

[Bengalitis]

(09-28-2020, 07:02 PM)Mobster Wrote: The issue with Herbert is he was so up and down. Would  look great at times but awful at other times. Burrow was so consistently good

Herbert could be like Fitzpatrick?

[motoarch]

I'm going to LOL when the chargers start taylor over Herbert this week.

[fredtoast]

(09-28-2020, 07:23 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  but we are in a rebuild.

14 teams make the playoffs this year.

Right now we have the 19th best record and 15th best point differential.

WAY way too early to start writing off this season.  A few key injuries on some teams in front of us and we would be in the playoff race all year.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Personally I think there will be a great rivalry develop in the future between the four best quarterbacks from the 2020 Draft: Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, and Tua Tagovailoa. It's going to be fun to watch.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-08-2020, 11:50 AM)motoarch Wrote: I'm going to LOL when the chargers start taylor over Herbert this week.

Not going to happen.. ...

https://www.nfl.com/news/chargers-name-justin-herbert-their-starting-quarterback-going-forward

Key points:  second most yards (931) in rookie QB first three games since 1970, 5th in NFL with 310 yards per game, 7th with 72% completions. 85 passer ratings if he hits that mark this weekend will be 5th rookie in Super Bowl Era to do so. 

[Rubekahn29]

(10-08-2020, 07:06 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Not going to happen.. ...

https://www.nfl.com/news/chargers-name-justin-herbert-their-starting-quarterback-going-forward

Key points:  second most yards (931) in rookie QB first three games since 1970, 5th in NFL with 310  yards per game, 7th with 72% completions. 85 passer ratings if he hits that mark this weekend will be 5th rookie in Super Bowl Era to do so. 

0-3.

[coachmcneil71]

Ffs folks. First and foremost, it's freaking early. Second, both kids are playing well. Third, I expect Tua and Hurts will both prove to be pretty darn good as well.

Let's just enjoy it. We have football, thank goodness. A couple of months ago that was in doubt. With Mahomes,Allen, and the rookies, there's a new young group of exciting gunslingers in the league. Makes for an exciting future for all NFL fans.

[motoarch]

(10-08-2020, 07:06 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Not going to happen.. ...

https://www.nfl.com/news/chargers-name-justin-herbert-their-starting-quarterback-going-forward

Key points:  second most yards (931) in rookie QB first three games since 1970, 5th in NFL with 310  yards per game, 7th with 72% completions. 85 passer ratings if he hits that mark this weekend will be 5th rookie in Super Bowl Era to do so. 

Yeah I wiffed on that one.  I'm okay with that.

You're still wrong about burrow and roy.  

[Essex Johnson]

(10-08-2020, 08:53 PM)motoarch Wrote: Yeah I wiffed on that one.  I'm okay with that.

You're still wrong about burrow and roy.  

Wrong? I have Burrow ahead but wanted to point out Herbert has played well also and would not totally discount him.

[motoarch]

(10-08-2020, 10:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Wrong? I have Burrow ahead but wanted to point out Herbert has played well also and would not totally discount him.

You know I can read right?

You're pretty clearly a charger fan boi that gets to post in jungle noise for some reason.

[Devils Advocate]

(09-29-2020, 06:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm still waiting on a verdict on Andy versus Cam.

Remember on the old board; the debate(s) about Carson vs Ben?

I think it’s safe to say we have the best Safety/duo in the division these days though ...

[*jason*]

(09-28-2020, 09:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Herbert has way more talent around him than Burrow.

WR's - Check  (Keeanan Allen and Mike Williams are one the better duos in the league. Both are better than AJ)

TE - Check (Hunter Henry is a top 10 tight end.  Drew Sample is top 10 turd)

Receiving Back - Check (Austin Ekeler may very well be the best back in the league at this.  If he's not, he's only 2nd to McCaffrey)

OL - Check

Defense - Check

Herbert has better protection, and better weapons, with a better defense.  Not to mention, he's got better coaching.

If you put Justin Herbert into this offense I can almost guarantee his numbers would look much, much worse.

It's off topic, but no way in hell Ekeler is better than Aaron Jones (who makes catches no other back in the league would dream of) or Kamara.

But yes... I agree the Chargers have a more talented roster than we do.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-08-2020, 11:13 PM)jason Wrote: It's off topic, but no way in hell Ekeler is better than Aaron Jones (who makes catches no other back in the league would dream of) or Kamara.

2019

Austin Ekeler

92 Receptions, 993 Receving Yards, 8 Receiving TD's, 10.8 YPC.

Aaron Jones

49 Receptions, 474 Receiving Yards, 3 Receiving TD's, 9.7 YPC.

Now, I now stats aren't the end all be all, but this differential is too much to ignore.  You can't say Aaron Jones is a better receiving back until he at least comes close to these numbers.

Austin Ekeler more than doubled him in yards and TD's, and fell just short of doubling him in receptions. He also averaged a full yard more per reception.

Aaron Jones may very well make some unbelieveable catches, but he doesn't do it enough to crack his way into the McCaffrey, Kamara, Ekeler tier.

[*jason*]

(10-08-2020, 11:32 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 2019

Austin Ekeler

92 receptions, 993 receving yards, 8 receiving TD's, 10.8 YPC.

Aaron Jones

49 receptions, 474 receiving yards, 3 receiving TD's, 9.7 YPC.

Now, I now stats aren't the end all be all, but this differential is too much to ignore.  You can't say Aaron Jones is a better receiving back until he at least comes close to these numbers.

Austin Ekeler more than doubled him in yards and TD's, and fell just short of doubling him in receptions. He also averaged a full yard per reception.

Aaron Jones may very well make some unbelieveable catches, but he doesn't do it enough to crack his way into the McCaffrey, Kamara, Ekeler tier.

Fair enough... I don't know how many times either guy was targeted. Either way, I've never seen another RB high point a football over a CB the way I've seen Jones do it. I was basically using the ol lyin' eyeball test. Jones will run some routes where he looks like a stubby WR with 33 on his jersey.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-28-2020, 09:11 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Wait til Hurts takes Wentz's job and the Eagles start winning. It's coming. I don't blame the Eagles struggles on Wentz, but Eagles and Bengal fans are a lot alike. They want to see the rookie! He needs a W next week to keep his job.

That one I'm kinda waiting on as well.
Picked up Hurts last week on the waiver, just in case.

I don't expect Wentz to maintain this level of the beating he's taking and stay healthy.

[WestCoastBengalsFan]

I heard Joey B put a beatdown on Herbert in Shoots & Ladders before the game started on week 1. So he's got that going for him too...

[PDub80]

(10-08-2020, 11:13 PM)jason Wrote: It's off topic, but no way in hell Ekeler is better than Aaron Jones (who makes catches no other back in the league would dream of) or Kamara.

But yes... I agree the Chargers have a more talented roster than we do.

I disagree. The Bengals should have been up 28-3 at half time if not for some whiffed plays. The Bengals played horribly and, even then, marched down for the game winning score.

[TKUHL]

(09-28-2020, 06:46 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Interesting early storyline.. both rookies off to a good start in their career. Herbert comes in cold off to start week 2 and almost pulls the upset of the year with a close lose to Chiefs and close lose yesterday with Carolina.. He has thrown for over 300 yards both games like Burrow has last two games. Herbert did not get the fanfare of Burrow but I felt he setup well as a NFL QB... and if Tua starts to produce when he gets the starting chance.. this could be a great QB class.. too early to tell who comes out on top but for sure Burrow and Herbert are off to a good start in their rookie years.

Wanted him over Tua. Actually would have been fine getting a great draft day trade to move back and land Herbert. But I’m very happy with what we have. Hope both continue to thrive in the NFL. Just wish we fixed the line so we would have a fighting chance this year. May have happened with a trade down but who knows. As long as we can keep Pitt and Balt from killing him, we should be set at QB for at least the next decade.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

If this was 2003, not 2020, drafting Justin Herbert over Joe Burrow would make sense. Back then the Bengals had a credible offensive line and a more aggressive approach toward pushing the ball down the field. If we take personalities out of the equation and examine this issue purely analytically, Justin Herbert is much more like Carson Palmer.

The 2020 Cincinnati Bengals do not feature a wide open offense. The playcalling is necessarily conservative due to the substandard offensive line. The knock on Joe Burrow is he does not throw an accurate deep ball. For the moment that may be true but that’s not a concern in 2020. As another poster accurately stated, placing Justin Herbert behind the current Cincinnati offensive line would be a disaster. His statistics would not nearly look so good. For now we are forced to admit the Chargers have a far better offensive line than the Bengals do which gives Herbert protection while deep routes develop.

In the near future with a better line the Bengals will begin throwing deep again and I have no doubt Joe Burrow will increase his precision and accuracy on long passes. For now, however, I’m very pleased where Joe is at this point in the season. I’ll take completed passes on ten yard slant routes and checkdowns all day.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-10-2020, 11:44 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: If this was 2003, not 2020, drafting Justin Herbert over Joe Burrow would make sense. Back then the Bengals had a credible offensive line and a more aggressive approach toward pushing the ball down the field. If we take personalities out of the equation and examine this issue purely analytically, Justin Herbert is much more like Carson Palmer.

The 2020 Cincinnati Bengals do not feature a wide open offense. The playcalling is necessarily conservative due to the substandard offensive line. The knock on Joe Burrow is he does not throw an accurate deep ball. For the moment that may be true but that’s not a concern in 2020. As another poster accurately stated, placing Justin Herbert behind the current Cincinnati offensive line would be a disaster. His statistics would not nearly look so good. For now we are forced to admit the Chargers have a far better offensive line than the Bengals do which gives Herbert protection while deep routes develop.

In the near future with a better line the Bengals will begin throwing deep again and I have no doubt Joe Burrow will increase his precision and accuracy on long passes. For now, however, I’m very pleased where Joe is at this point in the season. I’ll take completed passes on ten yard slant routes and checkdowns all day.

There’s not a team in the league that would have taken Herbert over Burrow, idc what year it is. The only way Burrow wasn’t going #1OA was if the team that picked first was already set at QB, and would have taken Chase Young.