Zimmer in the hot seat

[Essex Johnson]

Well so many want Taylor gone, was wondering your thoughts on Zimmer..good in regular season not so good in playoffs as a HC or Defense coordinator with us..

Now he is 0-3 in a weak division as a whole.. if he gets fired would you want him to replace Taylor.. he is not know to develop QBs well so i don;t think he would be a good fit for Burrow..

Thoughts

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2020, 07:09 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well so many want Taylor gone, was wondering your thoughts on Zimmer..good in regular season not so good in playoffs as a HC or Defense coordinator with us..

Now he is 0-3 in a weak division as a whole.. if he gets fired would you want him to replace Taylor.. he is not know to develop QBs well so i don;t think he would be a good fit for Burrow..

Thoughts

I don't think Burrow needs a lot of development, so I think Zimmer would be fine.
I think their franchise made a bad decision going all-in on Kirk Cousins, which has led to their downfall.

[Nati#1]

Id like to have Zimmer back as a DC

[*Nately120*]

Mike Zimmer Head coaching record
Regular season: 57–40–1 (.587)
Postseason: 2–3 (.400)

Zac Taylor Head coaching record
Regular season: 2–16–1 (.132)


Hmmmm...on the one hand MZ managed to get further in the playoffs than we have in over 30 years with a QB who is currently a backup for the Browns, on the other hand ZT managed to...I don't have a counter-argument. Ok, points to ZT in that I wouldn't immediately take Adam Gase over him.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 07:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think Burrow needs a lot of development, so I think Zimmer would be fine.
I think their franchise made a bad decision going all-in on Kirk Cousins, which has led to their downfall.

right now their downfall is defense.. and winning in playoffs.. I always though Zimmer was a very good DC.. maybe not cut out to be a great HC .. AS for Burrow he does need development.. Dalton was very good for us.. and had some great games like Burrow but he never was able to move the needle enough.. Burrow still needs to develop.. like i stated before.. after 3 games.. horrible throwing down the field so far.. room to improve...

[BoomerFan]

(09-28-2020, 07:09 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well so many want Taylor gone, was wondering your thoughts on Zimmer..good in regular season not so good in playoffs as a HC or Defense coordinator with us..

Now he is 0-3 in a weak division as a whole.. if he gets fired would you want him to replace Taylor.. he is not know to develop QBs well so i don;t think he would be a good fit for Burrow..

Thoughts

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes 

Heck, on that line of thought, I'd still be open to bringing back Marvin as a GM (or a defensive coordinator if he'd be willing to do that). He's had a nice rest, time to get back to work. 

How desperate am I? Paul Alexander is consulting with a German football team, bring him back as the Offensive Line coach. Or see if Hue Jackson will do it. Or freaking anyone other than Jim Turner. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-28-2020, 07:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: right now their downfall is defense.. and winning in playoffs.. I always though Zimmer was a very good DC.. maybe not cut out to be a great HC

He's done more in Minnesota than we've done since 1988, so beggars can't be something something. 

[mikey6866]

I keep seeing stuff like this but he just signed a 3 year extension a couple months ago. I doubt minnesota will make a move right after extending him a few months ago.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 07:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's done more in Minnesota than we've done since 1988, so beggars can't be something something. 

he also was part of our failures in playoffs.. i don;t think i was more frustrated than watching on defense against the run in the playoffs..but agreed he did have some success in Minnesota but i think this time has come there..

[jfkbengals]

(09-28-2020, 07:22 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: I keep seeing stuff like this but he just signed a 3 year extension a couple months ago.  I doubt minnesota will make a move right after extending him a few months ago.

This^^^

It's been 2 months since he was extended.  He will not be terminated this year.  Now if they lay an egg next season as well, they might cut him loose in lieu of a lame duck season.  But that's then, not this year.

[Wes Mantooth]

I have two conflicting thoughts when it comes to Mike Zimmer potentially coming here.

Thought #1

He's definitely better than our current coach. And I think he's probably going to be better than the majority of options. I think we'd be hard pressed to do better, with the way our franchise operates and our track record.

I really like Mike Zimmer. I think he's a great defensive mind. I also think he's incredibly well respected around the league, and would be able to attract both coaches and players that some other potential candidates could not.

Thought #2

Why must we always look to former coaches and players when we have a hole to fill?

Whether it's bringing back Marvin as GM, bringing back Gruden as OC, bringing back Peko for depth (Things I've heard this just this week), we always seem to want to bring back people with history here.

This strikes me as incredibly lazy. With a franchise riddled with a history of nepotism (Brown family, Bill + Duke Tobin, Carson + Jordan, etc.) I don't like recycling familair faces. There's already enough familarity in the front office.

As great as Mike Zimmer is, we never won dick with him here. Would that change now? I don't know. But I do know that this type of move would a typical Bengals move. And the Bengals typical make lazy and unsuccessful moves.
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A big part of me would be very happy with this move. But if we're being totally honest, more than anything I'd like a proper GM to make this decision. And what that would mean would be that I wouldn't know what exactly to expect, other than that this guy would search every avaiable option and make the right choice. If Mike Brown make this move, then I have to assume it's proabably for some of the wrong reasons.

So what I'm saying is, if an outside person comes in as GM and hires Mike Zimmer then I'll be elated. If Mike Brown does it, then I'll probably be cautiously optimistic.

Fwiw though, I really don't think Zimmer would take the job. I think he'd sooner go be a DC somewhere, retire, or hold out for another HC job, before he came back here and had to deal with this FO and their shortcomings. He's too old to deal with this bs, and to be wearing multiple hats due to a miniscule front office.

[Bengalstripes9]

Yes. I would love Zimmer as head coach. He's done great for the Vikings. They're just caught in a rebuild on defense. I'm not sure they want to lose Zimmer when next year they'll be much improved on defense. Even by the end of the year they'll be improved. Their best pass rusher is injured. They lost 3 starters at corner. Lost players along the dline. But Zimmer has some young draft picks he's developing.

If he get's canned Mike Brown better can Zac Taylor and sign Zimmer right away. He's got a good eye for talent. Great coach. Simple schemes but highly effective. If he had an elite QB to pair with his defenses, he'd get over that hump. He already has 2 postseason victories under his belt. That's more than any of our head coaches in the past 20+ years.

I'm fine seeing how things develop this season. If Zac clearly isn't the guy Zim would be at the top of my list.

I see RG and RT as the largest needs at this point. It doesn't matter who's coaching when the line-play is this awful.

[Yojimbo]

(09-28-2020, 07:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: right now their downfall is defense.. and winning in playoffs.. I always though Zimmer was a very good DC.. maybe not cut out to be a great HC .. AS for Burrow he does need development.. Dalton was very good for us.. and had some great games like Burrow but he never was able to move the needle enough.. Burrow still needs to develop.. like i stated before.. after 3 games.. horrible throwing down the field so far.. room to improve...

The Viking have lost a ton of talent on the defense in just one year, partly due to cap hell thanks to their ridiculous QB contract and have had some serious injuries this year as well.

Zimmer > ZT

Don’t know if Zimmer will win a SB as a HC, but I like my chances better with him than ZT.

[Yojimbo]

(09-28-2020, 07:51 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Yes. I would love Zimmer as head coach. He's done great for the Vikings. They're just caught in a rebuild on defense. I'm not sure they want to lose Zimmer when next year they'll be much improved on defense. Even by the end of the year they'll be improved. Their best pass rusher is injured. They lost 3 starters at corner. Lost players along the dline. But Zimmer has some young draft picks he's developing.

If he get's canned Mike Brown better can Zac Taylor and sign Zimmer right away. He's got a good eye for talent. Great coach. Simple schemes but highly effective. If he had an elite QB to pair with his defenses, he'd get over that hump. He already has 2 postseason victories under his belt. That's more than any of our head coaches in the past 20+ years.

I'm fine seeing how things develop this season. If Zac clearly isn't the guy Zim would be at the top of my list.

I see RG and RT as the largest needs at this point. It doesn't matter who's coaching when the line-play is this awful.

Huh? It’s the coaches’ job to make sure the line play isn’t this horrible...

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I would 100% like to see Zimmer back if the Vikes can him.

I just profoundly disagree with both our offensive & defensive philosophies. And the degree tgey are ill-fitted to the roster, especially on D. Playcalling/game management is also poor.

On D. That stupid 5 DL/3 DT thing using Dunlap/Hubbard in coverage has to go. Especially since we are paper thin at DT. Plus, those guys are DEs, not OLBs that rush the passer (LT, D. Thomas, K. Mack, etc). And the lack of aggression to end halves is appaling. FFS, if they score fast, at least we get the ball back. Don't let them score AND kill the clock. We are up 7. Grow a pair. Tackling continues to be an issue. How many sacks did we blow this game? Soft.

On O. Not prioritizing the O-line with Burrow coming in is a fire-able offense. We are #1 in the league in WR payroll, ponied up for a 2 down back, and spent $100+ million in FA and like 2% of that (XSF) was on the O-line. No fullbacks screams soft (though I did see Carter back there some & some 2 back). And finally, playing 6'7" OGs is just a bad idea. They struggle getting low and have leverage issues.

HC: Zimmer/Simmons
DC: Phillips/Zimmer
OL: Anyone but Turner

Gonna be tough to improve right away. The die is cast this year.

[*Nately120*]

(09-28-2020, 07:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: he also was part of our failures in playoffs.. i don;t think i was more frustrated than watching on defense against the run in the playoffs..but agreed he did have some success in Minnesota but i think this time has come there..

I hear ya but he's won playoff games and we went from losing playoff games without him to looking down the barrel of a 5th losing season in a row. 

[BengalsRocker]

(09-28-2020, 07:49 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Thought #2

Why must we always look to former coaches and players when we have a hole to fill?

Whether it's bringing back Marvin as GM, bringing back Gruden as OC, bringing back Peko for depth (Things I've heard this just this week), we always seem to want to bring back people with history here.

This strikes me as incredibly lazy.  With a franchise riddled with a history of nepotism (Brown family, Bill + Duke Tobin, Carson + Jordan, etc.) I don't like recycling familair faces.  There's already enough familarity in the front office.

As great as Mike Zimmer is, we never won dick with him here.  Would that change now?  I don't know.  But I do know that this type of move would a typical Bengals move.  And the Bengals typical make lazy and unsuccessful moves.
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I don't mind if they hire someone not previously affiliated with the team.

On the other hand... we now have this newbie shit show.

Please bring in an outside coach that has got a little clout and track record of success for crap's sake.

Good Lord.   Zac Taylor and his drinkin' buds.  Now I need a drink!

[*Nately120*]

(09-28-2020, 08:29 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I don't mind if they hire someone not previously affiliated with the team.

On the other hand... we now have this newbie shit show.

Please bring in an outside coach that has got a little clout and track record of success for crap's sake.

Good Lord.   Zac Taylor and his drinkin' buds.  Now I need a drink!

I like the way you think...we should crack a few beers and then coach and NFL team together. 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-28-2020, 07:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: right now their downfall is defense.. and winning in playoffs.. I always though Zimmer was a very good DC.. maybe not cut out to be a great HC .. AS for Burrow he does need development.. Dalton was very good for us.. and had some great games like Burrow but he never was able to move the needle enough.. Burrow still needs to develop.. like i stated before.. after 3 games.. horrible throwing down the field so far.. room to improve...

He's won playoff games, of which no Bengals HC has done in 3 decades. So Zimmer would be fine.
Zimmer doesn't need to be a QB whisperer to turn Burrow into a top talent. That's what hiring the right QB coach and OC are for.
Also, I didn't say Burrow didn't need any improvement, I just said not much. Needing improvement on deep throws is not "a lot" in my opinion.

EDIT - Meant 3 decades. Not 30 lol.

[*Synric*]

What do people think about the possibility of Vance Joseph getting a second shot as a Head Coach? Like Zac Taylor I thought he rushed into it after only one year as a coordinator with the Dolphins. I think he is still a solid candidate especially now that he has several more years experience.