OC Callahan apparently was not aware that we were going to waive Shaq Calhoun

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(09-29-2020, 11:31 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It's not like Calhoun was a player getting playing time, he was a back of the roster guy that they just moved to move someone else. For crying out loud, it's not like they cut Hopkins....

Nobody is concerned that they cut him.

The concern is that this highlights a dysfunctional front office and coaching staff.

(09-29-2020, 11:38 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: What's the point of an interview if the coaches aren't going to say how they actually feel about their players?

I believe teams are contractually obliged to put up players and coaches.

[Murdock2420]

(09-29-2020, 12:13 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I believe teams are contractually obliged to put up players and coaches.

Correct, they are but they are not obligated to actually say anything meaningful, see Marshawn Lynch and the "I'm just here so I won't get fined" reply to every question.

[CJD]

(09-29-2020, 12:13 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Correct.

No NFL coach is going to come out and say, that guy was crap and needs to step it up. If they do that they get hammered for calling out a player publicly, it has happened before.

They handle all those comments in the locker room. Listen to any press conference from any coach about whatever player and you hear them say, I think he played well but I need to see the tape. When asked about a QB, he looked good, made some nice throws but got to make sure we aren't missing the open opportunities. This is coach speak.... you don't alienate your players to appease the media and the fans who are ready to second guess ever move you make.

Plus, if you call out a player it ends up as headlines on ESPN, Twitter, and everywhere else and eventually is taken out of context.

This is an absolute non-story. If they wait 10 mins more to waive him or 10 minutes sooner, this never happens.

But you can be honest without blasting a player. Like in this case. He knew Calhoun wasn't in the competition. So just say that while flowering him with "potential" and "future possibility" talk.

The compliment sandwich, if you will.

[Murdock2420]

(09-29-2020, 12:22 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: But you can be honest without blasting a player. Like in this case. He knew Calhoun wasn't in the competition. So just say that while flowering him with "potential" and "future possibility" talk.

The compliment sandwich, if you will.

Because then the next question is "Why isn't he in the competition for the RG spot?" or "Is he in the competition?" Then you are stuck having to answer that without saying, "Hey, we are waiving that guy."

I really don't see anything wrong with this story, it is just bad timing.

Think of it like a Hobspin fluff piece about an UDFA that we all know deep down isn't making the roster.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-29-2020, 11:16 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This tells me that Taylor (or maybe someone else above Taylor even) is making roster decisions and not consulting anyone, especially not the coaches/coordinators of said players.

There's been a few instances over the years that signaled that Mike Brown and Co. are still way more involved than people think.

I remember a few with Marvin, where he would comment on certain player who left and it would seem he had moved on, or was opposed to them ever returning.  Then said player would magically return.  The Chris Henry situation clearly comes to mind.  It was 100% evident that that was Mike's call.

It was also reported that Mike Brown was actually making the call on what players would be active on gamedays.  I remember just a few years ago they said that Marvin Lewis was now handling this, as a sign that he had more say and assumed more power.  I remember thinking, why the hell hasn't this been his call all along?  What coach gets cucked by his owner about which players are going to dress?

Keep it mind, it took years and maybe a decade plus before Marvin made calls like these.  And he had a much better record, and some history behind him.  I'd be shocked if Zac Taylor assumed the same level of control immediately.

People say Mike has completely stepped aside.  While that may be true, I don't at all believe the family has.  The Troy Blackburn comments on Andrew Whitworth and Bobby Hart were alarming.  Him and his Kevin Bacon looking wife, along the old man, have their fingerprints all over everything that makes up this team.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-29-2020, 11:11 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He was literally released minutes before that question. Minutes.

It's not like he was released 5 hours prior and then he just found out about it.

The amount of nitpicky toxicity the past few days is starting to turn into what this place was last year...

You don't think your OC should have input on which offensive players to keep?

I mean, even if you argue that it doesn't matter (it does), it's probably a good idea to keep him completely up to date, if only so he doesn't go out and embarrass both himself and your franchise when doing a press conference or interview like this one.

If you don't think this looks bad then I'm going to have to assume either bias or ignorance.  Sorry, but this is an embarrassment.

[fredtoast]

No OC in the league makes personnel decisions. That is the job of the front office?GM.

Even head coaches complain about not being able to pick their own players, so why does everyone here suddenly think Callahan gets to say who is cut and who is signed.

Just more Bengal fans losing their shit over something that happens on every other team in the league.

[Murdock2420]

(09-29-2020, 12:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You don't think your OC should have input on which offensive players to keep?

I mean, even if you argue that it doesn't matter (it does), it's probably a good idea to keep him completely up to date, if only so he doesn't go out and embarrass both himself and your franchise when doing a press conference or interview like this one.

If you don't think this looks bad then I'm going to have to assume either bias or ignorance.  Sorry, but this is an embarrassment.

I don't think it is fair to assume he didn't know.

His answer to the question sounded like a typical answer from a coach about any player at a given position, especially if that position group is struggling.

He can't come out in the presser and say "We are cutting that guy." The backlash for doing that would be horrible around the league, as it is just a poor way to tell a guy he is getting cut.

He has to tap dance around the question and answer it in the typical generic way as to avoid letting out that the guy is getting cut today.

The failing I see, is the Bengals front office dropping a press release about a player move while a coach is being interviewed.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-29-2020, 12:34 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: There's been a few instances over the years that signaled that Mike Brown and Co. are still way more involved than people think.

I remember a few with Marvin, where he would comment on certain player who left and it would seem he had moved on, or was opposed to them ever returning.  Then said player would magically return.  The Chris Henry situation clearly comes to mind.  It was 100% evident that that was Mike's call.

It was also reported that Mike Brown was actually making the call on what players would be active on gamedays.  I remember just a few years ago they said that Marvin Lewis was now handling this, as a sign that he had more say and assumed more power.  I remember thinking, why the hell hasn't this been his call all along?  What coach gets cucked by his owner about which players are going to dress?

Keep it mind, it took years and maybe a decade plus before Marvin made calls like these.  And he had a much better record, and some history behind him.  I'd be shocked if Zac Taylor assumed the same level of control immediately.

People say Mike has completely stepped aside.  While that may be true, I don't at all believe the family has.  The Troy Blackburn comments on Andrew Whitworth and Bobby Hart were alarming.  Him and his Kevin Bacon looking wife, along the old man, have their fingerprints all over everything that makes up this team.

I've never bought to heavily into the narrative that MB has "totally" stepped aside. I doubt I'm stepping out on to big a limb to say he still has his rubber stamp sitting on his desk ready to mark every decision above 17 cents. 

As to Callahan not knowing in the big scheme of things it's not that big a deal. In my mind though it just shows some insight into the dysfunction still going on in this franchise.

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2020, 12:58 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I don't think it is fair to assume he didn't know.

That is possible.

But does not change the fact that some people are squealing like their hair is on fire over something that happens on every other team in the league.

The timing was bad, but I don't know how the front office is supposed to care about what coach is giving an interview at what time.  And even if they had waited until after the interview the same people here would be claiming it is proof that the Bengals don't know what they are doing.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-29-2020, 12:29 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Because then the next question is "Why isn't he in the competition for the RG spot?" or "Is he in the competition?" Then you are stuck having to answer that without saying, "Hey, we are waiving that guy."

I really don't see anything wrong with this story, it is just bad timing.

Think of it like a Hobspin fluff piece about an UDFA that we all know deep down isn't making the roster.

I think this sums it up. Just really bad timing on top of a frustrated fanbase makes this worse than it really is. There's not a coach out there that's going to say "This guy's on the chop block or not playing". Usually coach speak stuff. Just so happens they timed his release at the worst possible time for Callahan. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-29-2020, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No OC in the league makes personnel decisions.  That is the job of the front office?GM.  

Even head coaches complain about not being able to pick their own players, so why does everyone here suddenly think Callahan gets to say who is cut and who is signed.

Just more Bengal fans losing their shit over something that happens on every other team in the league.

A couple things...

1.) We aren't like any other team.  Our coaches are asked to wear many hats, because of a small (and inept) front office.

Our coaches are asked to scout.  Some even travel.  There was also a time where Marvin Lewis was considered by many here to be the defacto GM.

So while you are correct that OC's generally have little to do with anything outside of the gameplan and playcalling, I'd argue that here they're asked to do more.

2.) No one is saying it should have been his call.  But is it no crazy to think that he should have at least had some input and been involved in the discussion?

3.) Even if you want to discout points 1 +2, he should at least be aware that a cut has been made.  ESPECIALLY before beign trotted out to do an interview.  It protects both he and the team from looking stupid.

You mention every team does this, as far personnel decision.  Fine.  But none of those teams roll out the OC to give an embarrassing interview either.  I can't think of a single instance where an coach has talked about a player who was released, and didn't even know it.  

PS If this guy doesn't call plays, and has absolutely no say in roster makeup, what exactly does he do?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-29-2020, 11:40 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If you get my point then maybe don't act like I'm being some irrational clod? I think you know my posting style well enough that I am not some overreacting complainer...right?

Jesus Christ, why the hostility? I never acted as if you were some irrational clod and if I had known you would take this personally and make a big deal about it, I wouldn't have said anything.

Let it die then.

(09-29-2020, 12:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You don't think your OC should have input on which offensive players to keep?

I mean, even if you argue that it doesn't matter (it does), it's probably a good idea to keep him completely up to date, if only so he doesn't go out and embarrass both himself and your franchise when doing a press conference or interview like this one.

If you don't think this looks bad then I'm going to have to assume either bias or ignorance.  Sorry, but this is an embarrassment.

You choose to see it the same was as CJD; nobody but the people in that building know about the timing and whether or not Callahan knew about it or not. Not ignorance or bias at all.

[kacymcbryant18]

My theory is that someone tried to claim Sutherland so the Bengals needed to make a move fast so that they wouldn't lose him. That means abruptly cutting Calhoun. Callahan went on to mention in that interview that teams keep trying to claim Sutherland and that they were upset when they lost him last year.

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-29-2020, 01:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've never bought to heavily into the narrative that MB has "totally" stepped aside. I doubt I'm stepping out on to big a limb to say he still has his rubber stamp sitting on his desk ready to mark every decision above 17 cents. 

100% agree.  I don't buy it either.

He may not weigh in on every decision like he did prior, but I believe that when he does he's getting final say.  And I think he probably does this more often than one might think. 

He may not be "running the day to day" as is often said, but he's certainly aware of it, and I don't doubt that he's more than willing to chime in whenever he wants.

No chance he didn't get final say on Zac Taylor.

[CJD]

(09-29-2020, 01:04 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Jesus Christ, why the hostility? I never acted as if you were some irrational clod and if I had known you would take this personally and make a big deal about it, I wouldn't have said anything.

Let it die then.


You choose to see it the same was as CJD; nobody but the people in that building know about the timing and whether or not Callahan knew about it or not. Not ignorance or bias at all.

I wasn't the one being hostile dude. You literally said this:

Quote:The amount of nitpicky toxicity the past few days

Did you not intend to call me toxic and nit picky?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-29-2020, 01:03 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: A couple things...

1.) We aren't like any other team.  Our coaches are asked to wear many hats, because of a small (and inept) front office.

Our coaches are asked to scout.  Some even travel.  There was also a time where Marvin Lewis was considered by many here to be the defacto GM.

So while you are correct that OC's generally have little to do with anything outside of the gameplan and playcalling, I'd argue that here they're asked to do more.

2.) No one is saying it should have been his call.  But is it no crazy to think that he should have at least had some input and been involved in the discussion?

3.) Even if you want to discout points 1 +2, he should at least be aware that a cut has been made.  ESPECIALLY before beign trotted out to do an interview.  It protects both he and the team from looking stupid.

You mention every team does this, as far personnel decision.  Fine.  But none of those teams roll out the OC to give an embarrassing interview either.  I can't think of a single instance where an coach has talked about a player who was released, and didn't even know it.  

PS If this guy doesn't call plays, and has absolutely no say in roster makeup, what exactly does he do?

Exactly

It's like the General of the division not telling his colonel they're going to use his regiment in the invasion until after they're already on the move.

[Hoofhearted]

So... what was Callahan supposed to say or do that would of made this not look as bad?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-29-2020, 01:09 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I wasn't the one being hostile dude. You literally said this:

Did you not intend to call me toxic and nit picky?

Nope; I said the post was, not you.

Again, I reiterate; had I known you would've taken it personally, I would've kept my mouth shut.

Just because a post spreads around toxicity, doesn't mean the person making the post is.

Sorry if I offended you, but all that was meant by that was that the nitpicky toxicity from last year is coming back out again and it really isn't necessary.

[BrownAssClown]

“Apparently you just waived him,” a reporter informed Callahan.

“Did we? There’s your answer,” a bemused Callahan said. “Is there anybody else out there getting released that I didn’t know about?”


Coach Callahan sounds like he was totally caught off guard. Not a good look at all and shouldn't happen, no coach in the league should be so uninformed about the goings on with their team. Callahan may of mused about it while being interviewed, but I bet he was fuming on the inside.