Top 5 and Bottom 5 Starters - PFF (min 100 snaps)

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-13-2020, 10:25 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: 5th best WR in the league and on a bad offense. TyLeR BoYd iSn’T a #1 ReCeIvEr.

Glad to hear that you think Adam Thielen is the best WR in the entire NFL and Patrick Mahomes isn't a Top-3 QB (and worse than Josh Allen), 

Because that's what happens when you take PFF grades as GosPeL CoNcReTe FaCtS.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Disappointed to see ADG so low. What’s Logan Wilson at?

[Yojimbo]

(10-14-2020, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Disappointed to see ADG so low. What’s Logan Wilson at?

Wonder if he’s hit the 100 snaps yet.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2020, 01:12 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Wonder if he’s hit the 100 snaps yet.

Feels like he’s been out there as much or more than ADG, but you could be right.

[Yojimbo]

(10-14-2020, 01:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Feels like he’s been out there as much or more than ADG, but you could be right.

I googled a bit and couldn’t find a total snap count. Just spitballing since he missed a game.

[Bengal Dude]

I'm not surprised that Jordan is that low. He has looked lost out there a lot this season. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2020, 01:18 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'm not surprised that Jordan is that low. He has looked lost out there a lot this season. 

He’s been such a disappointment. I know he was considered a “project” (then why the hell is he starting?) but he just looks like such a force with all his size, and every once in a while he has a nice pancake block, but most of the time he’s downright awful. And I guarantee it’s negatively effecting Jonah next to him.

[*Synric*]

(10-14-2020, 01:17 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I googled a bit and couldn’t find a total snap count. Just spitballing since he missed a game.

Pro Football Reference tracks snaps. ADG averaged about 20 snaps through the first 4 games and had 50 against Baltimore. He's at 135 total.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviAk01.htm

[Bengal Dude]

(10-14-2020, 01:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s been such a disappointment. I know he was considered a “project” (then why the hell is he starting?) but he just looks like such a force with all his size, and every once in a while he has a nice pancake block, but most of the time he’s downright awful. And I guarantee it’s negatively effecting Jonah next to him.

I hate to say it, but he reminds me of Bodine. 


There's times where Jonah is engaged with a defender and Trey is locked up. Jordan is just standing there. There's no linebacker coming at him or anything. He just stands in place and does nothing. During a screen against Jacksonville, Jordan practically acted like he was the receiver. He was somehow behind Mixon and looking back at Burrow instead of looking for a defender to block. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-14-2020, 01:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Disappointed to see ADG so low. What’s Logan Wilson at?

I think with ADG he has a few extremely bad plays that weigh his grade down. When he is bad it’s BAD! He just needs to not have those types of plays and he will be alright. I suppose that’s how it goes when you start a 4th rd LB.

[Nicomo Cosca]

So Logan Wilson has 95 defensive snaps. Just missed the cutoff.

[Sled21]

It's funny, when I watch Bynes I just don't feel he is playing that bad, rather it appears to me he is playing really well. Maybe it's just because we are used to really crappy linebacker play?

[Au165]

(10-13-2020, 08:10 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't get it either and he's not the only one. Hart wouldn't make the roster even as a backup on the vast majority of teams. 

Again, as I keep trying to explain, Hart is rated as an average NFL starting tackle by PFF. The issue is how good average NFL starting tackles are in today's NFL. In a vaccuum you'd say he is horrible, but then you realize the NFL has a serious tackle problem.

[BacknDaDey]

I personally don't believe in PFF scores. How can they have enough people and cameras, focused on 22 players to evaluate every play, at any given time for all games played on Sunday?

[Yojimbo]

(10-14-2020, 10:13 AM)BacknDaDey Wrote: I personally don't believe in PFF scores. How can they have enough people and cameras, focused on 22 players to evaluate every play, at any given time for all games played on Sunday?

It’s called the All 22 and it’s the same camera angle teams use when they watch game film. PFF isn’t doing it live during the game. They have a staff that watches these films throughout the week/season. The question in veracity comes from their system and lack of knowing exactly what a coach wants a player to be doing on any given play. They have to make some assumptions.

However, if you look at the top groupings of any position and see the players there, they tend to have the same best players that most people would agree are the best in the league.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2020, 01:17 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I googled a bit and couldn’t find a total snap count. Just spitballing since he missed a game.

Bingo.
He's at 95 snaps, so he didn't make the cut.
His score is 48.9, primarily due to terrible run defense. His coverage is solid (67.1).

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2020, 01:18 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'm not surprised that Jordan is that low. He has looked lost out there a lot this season. 

Jordan is only slightly better than Redmond.
Neither should be starting, but they didn't address OL well enough in the offseason to allow that to happen.
In reality, they should have, at minimum, kept John Miller to hold down the RG spot and signed XSF to stopgap LG while Jordan was groomed behind him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-13-2020, 05:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Top 5 Offense (min 100 snaps):
1) Tyler Boyd (83.4)
2) Joe Burrow (73.1)
3) Jonah Williams (70.7)
4) Tee Higgins (68.8)
5) Joe Mixon (68.5)

Top 5 Defense (min 100 snaps):
1) Jessie Bates (89.0)
2) William Jackson III (69.9)
3) DJ Reader (69.6)
4) Carl Lawson (65.1)
5) Mackensie Alexander (64.1)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Bottom 5 Offense (min 100 snaps):
1) Fred Johnson (45.3)
2) Alex Redmond (51.7)
3) Michael Jordan (53.8)
4) AJ Green (58.5)
5) Trey Hopkins (59.8)

Bottom 5 Defense (min 100 snaps):
1) Akeem Davis-Gaither (39.0)
2) Germaine Pratt (46.6)
3) Josh Bynes (53.4)
4) Carlos Dunlap (54.1)
5) Vonn Bell (56.0)

Love these....

I am not going to beat up our LBs with lower scores here.  PFF doesn't know the assignments of the players and I remember hearing a LB from the Pats that said he was always rated low by PFF (despite being a key cog on the #1 defense for several years) because they didn't know his role.  I think our young LBs are looking very promising.  If they got dinged for dropping an INT (both ADG and Wilson last game), then they should get credit for reading the QB and being in place to make a play as well.  

Bell isn't getting a lot of love in coverage, but he was RIGHT there on a couple completions.  I just have to tip my hat to perfect ball placement and a good, clean catch by the TE.  He is always in position and helps stuff the running game which has improved dramatically the last few games.  I also like his work ethic and preparation.  

Dunlap...I guess he will have to play more now.  Hope he magically flips the switch like he did last year the last eight games.  Only problem is if he waits that long, they will be eliminated from any playoff hopes (I know they are already slim as hell).  He seems to like to play against the Colts, so we will see.  

If our young LBs could show the development that Bates has in his time here....the future of the middle of the defense would be very bright.  

One guy I am surprised isn't on the positives list is Darius Phillips.  Maybe it is not knowing his assignments again, but the guy blitzed on 8 defensive snaps and broke up the play on 5 of them.  He was outstanding.  

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2020, 12:08 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Love these....

I am not going to beat up our LBs with lower scores here.  PFF doesn't know the assignments of the players and I remember hearing a LB from the Pats that said he was always rated low by PFF (despite being a key cog on the #1 defense for several years) because they didn't know his role.  I think our young LBs are looking very promising.  If they got dinged for dropping an INT (both ADG and Wilson last game), then they should get credit for reading the QB and being in place to make a play as well.  

Bell isn't getting a lot of love in coverage, but he was RIGHT there on a couple completions.  I just have to tip my hat to perfect ball placement and a good, clean catch by the TE.  He is always in position and helps stuff the running game which has improved dramatically the last few games.  I also like his work ethic and preparation.  

Dunlap...I guess he will have to play more now.  Hope he magically flips the switch like he did last year the last eight games.  Only problem is if he waits that long, they will be eliminated from any playoff hopes (I know they are already slim as hell).  He seems to like to play against the Colts, so we will see.  

If our young LBs could show the development that Bates has in his time here....the future of the middle of the defense would be very bright.  

One guy I am surprised isn't on the positives list is Darius Phillips.  Maybe it is not knowing his assignments again, but the guy blitzed on 8 defensive snaps and broke up the play on 5 of them.  He was outstanding.  

Phillips just missed the cut for Top 5, but he's doing well.
63.9 overall.
62.9 run defense, 93.4 pass rush, 58.0 coverage.
As you said, he has 8 pass rush snaps, but he has 186 coverage snaps and 123 run defense snaps, so his pass rush snaps aren't as big of a factor into his overall rating.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2020, 01:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Phillips just missed the cut for Top 5, but he's doing well.
63.9 overall.
62.9 run defense, 93.4 pass rush, 58.0 coverage.
As you said, he has 8 pass rush snaps, but he has 186 coverage snaps and 123 run defense snaps, so his pass rush snaps aren't as big of a factor into his overall rating.

I am amazed that his coverage is rated at 58.  What WRs have gone off against him?  He seems to draw the #2 WR, but PFF doesn't take in to account the quality of the opponent.  I see his coverage as excellent.