(10-14-2020, 07:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not an NFL player, but I'd wager if you asked them what their lifelong dream is they'd mention winning a SB, not "my ultimate dream is to play for a coach I like." I'm not saying a player's coach can't be good...Tomlin and Arians come to mind, but I'm not sure why we are so fixated on ZT being likable.
Did we go into 2019 saying "The next coach has GOTTA be more likeable than Marvin?" or did we say "The next coach has GOT win more than Marvin?"
I mean, did anyone actually like Jim Harbaugh as a person? He always came off as a dick while in SF.... but he was a dick who WON. You can be as abrasive as you like so long as you're winning 12 games a year and winning in the playoffs. Players will still buy in... at least for as long as the winning lasts.
(10-14-2020, 07:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: My question as well to the OP?
It's quite clear this OL is not doing their job. As we started into this year, our 2 biggest concerns were the OL and the defense. Well, the defense did pretty decent against a stout Baltimore offense. Now we are left with an OL that has allowed Burrow to be sacked 22 times for a loss of 155yds. Joe has somehow kept it close in all games until Baltimore.
Jim Turner is your problem, not Zac Taylor. Yes, Zac has a lot of things he needs to work on but the locker room is not one of them. He want's leaders in that room who take responsibility. Not like players from the Marvin era who think seniority should determine who the started is or ones like AJ that gave up. You can blame that crap on those guys but not ZT or talk that he's lost the locker room.
This offense is fighting hard. The OL is probably fighting hard too, but some guys have reached their potential and need to go. Even if we bring in a guy or two it wont help the OL as a whole. At the end of the year, we need to clean that shit up and I think Zac will address it. I hope his first move is firing Turner.
That'd all make sense if Taylor had any kind of proven track record... He doesn't though. Ownership has a proven track record though. They make a lot of bad hires, and Zac Taylor is one of em.
(10-14-2020, 07:23 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: We literally just went through this with ML and ZT hasn't been two full years and everyone's running to boot him out the door.
100% there are better head coaches, coordinators, position coaches, specialists, etc than are working for the Bengals. But is one actually available now? Why put an interim HC in to generate more turmoil and potentially be an entirely new set of of schemes just to almost guaranteed do it again in the off-season? The stats are out there for how well interim coaches do. It's a knee-jerk decision with little payoff. If ZT hits a 2-3 win season here and shows no more improvement, fine, fire him. I'm on board. But asking for him to be fired before the halfway point of the season? What concrete benefit is there to that?
I'd give ZT until the end of this season, but if he has something like 5 or 6 wins after 2 seasons you've got to show him the door. That's all I'm saying.
As to the original question...what kind of locker room can a HC with a .161 win percentage NOT lose? If a HC with no history of success in his position wins 2 or 3 games per year and the locker room isn't lost then we've just got ourselves a clock-punching mess of a bored team.
(10-14-2020, 07:28 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It's focused on right now because it's basically Zac's only verifiable strength.
His playcalling is TBD (at best) because of the Oline.
His Offensive talent evaluation is kind of scattered. He struggles with Oline, clearly, but he obviously had enough sense to draft Joe Burrow and Tee Higgins is looking like a good player as well, so that's another TBD, maybe a slight lean towards proficient if you don't count the Oline.
His defensive talent evaluation is unmeasurable as he is an offense first coach, but if he had a significant hand in bringing in the free agents onf defense, he seems to have done a decent job, so give that a TBD maybe a lean proficient.
His gameplanning seems bad. Maybe that is inhibited by his Oline again, but we can't just keep using that to cover for all the problems.
His scheming seems...at best mediocre. Again caveats for the Oline.
His clock management has been fine, I suppose. Not really blowing me away but it's not blatantly horrific at least.
And then his personality and coaching style. He seems to be a players' coach and he is more open to the media than most head coaches.
Those are his only real strengths at this point in his career which is why they're always referenced.
Maybe someday we'll have a line that can protect our QB and we can actually test his other attributes but until that time comes, we have to assume he is mediocre at those or worse, as he has shown he cannot scheme and call a game to get past a bad Oline.
(10-14-2020, 06:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If ZT wins 5 games out of 32 and he doesn't lose the locker room then we need to lose the locker room because the locker room is clearly full of losers.
This is the one i'm on board with.
P.S. What is going on in your avatar?
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(10-14-2020, 08:17 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: P.S. What is going on in your avatar?
What isn't going on in it?
Actually, it's from a craptastic VHS about monster trucks where Sgt Slaughter and his battle battalion engage in a tug of war contest with Bigfoot the monster truck. Following the bout Sarge plays electric guitar and people sing about how awesome monster trucks are.
I felt compelled to change my Dalton and Palmer hugging avatar I had been using in both Raiders/Bengals and Cardinals/Bengals variants since 2012 because we are onto a new era. I was either going to use a custom made Sgt Slaughter with rockin' guitar or this gif I made of something even MORE obscure and stupid!
(10-14-2020, 06:47 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Just keep replacing everyone and be perpetually rebuilding every season brilliant. how bout just replacing the head coach and start from there.
We started at QB and see how far we are getting? Team is far from one move away. Start there and by the time the players are addressed, the good ones are gone or on IR.
(10-14-2020, 08:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What isn't going on in it?
Actually, it's from a craptastic VHS about monster trucks where Sgt Slaughter and his battle battalion engage in a tug of war contest with Bigfoot the monster truck. Following the bout Sarge plays electric guitar and people sing about how awesome monster trucks are.
I felt compelled to change my Dalton and Palmer hugging avatar I had been using in both Raiders/Bengals and Cardinals/Bengals variants since 2012 because we are onto a new era. I was either going to use a custom made Sgt Slaughter with rockin' guitar or this gif I made of something even MORE obscure and stupid!
lol. I was gonna say it looked like Sgt. Slaughter but i thought...why would he be playing a guitar with people around him seemingly cheering?
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
I worry for Burrow, kid's never had so many losses in his life (and probably will get many, many more). I hope his contract included the unlimited use of psychologists to help him deal with the loses.
(10-14-2020, 07:07 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: What specifically leads you to believe that he's lost the locker room and the team has given up playing for him?
I think some of the older vets are probably in a "win now or never" mode, but I don't think it's fair at all to say the team has given up fully. I also don't agree at all that he should have been fired after losing a game everyone knew would be lost in a rebuilding year. But call me a patient optimist. I've only been a fan for 30+ years...
It's not about this last game against Baltimore. It's about 3 wins in 21 games and really no ability by this team to compete, even remotely, against good teams. Simply put, since Taylor arrived the Bengals have zero wins against teams with a winning record. That's down right dismal.
To players like Dunlap, Atkins and AJ who saw the team go to the playoffs 5 years in a row this team has to be a grave disappointment. Before Taylor they at least expected to have a shot against the top teams, which is proven by the fact that the beat some pretty darn good teams under Marvin, even in those last couple of years, including Green Bay, New England, Seattle, Baltimore and occasionally the Squeelers. They also use to routinely dispatch the Browns.
Now, when they beat a horrible team like Jax, it's all Taylor's figured it out. No he hasn't.
If Zac does lose the locker room, then there must be change. You have to make major coaching and/or roster changes when something like that happens. The FO can't keep everything the same if this is another lost season. If they decide to keep the coaches and roster intact, then they can expect even more fans to walk away.
You can always trust an dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to look out for.
"Winning makes believers of us all"-Paul Brown
(10-15-2020, 08:15 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I voted yes because he has already put himself in a difficult spot with the likes of Green, Dunlap, and to a lesser extent, Ross.
Green is clearly frustrated, but I don't think it is at ZT, it is because he is not what he once was. He watches tape. He knows deep down he's not getting open. Dunlap being demoted is probably the very best thing Taylor could have done for him, as he had one of his best games in Baltimore. Prior to that, he was just taking up space on the field, and consistently letting his run lanes open. The demotion, and now due to Hubbard his promotion, should motivate him to produce for the rest of the season. We'll see how that plays out, but for right now I think that was a perfect call. Ross is Ross....
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